LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Vamsi]

View attachment 148425
No Bhramos-NG

Read again what Harshal Pal asked and what HVT sir replied

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Read again what Harshal Pal asked and what HVT sir replied

You should look at the info-graphics released by HAL rather than future predictions by some random twitter account.

 

[Vamsi]

You should look at the info-graphics released by HAL rather than future predictions by some random twitter account.

he is not random Twitter account....he is a deputy chief test pilot in HAL....also Brahmos-NG was clearly shown with Tejas during AI-2019

 

[Covfefe]

You should look at the info-graphics released by HAL rather than future predictions by some random twitter account.

When there's no Brahmos NG then what's the point of showing it in an infographic? DRDO has said that it's still on the drawing board and will be ready only by 2024-25

 

[Dark Sorrow]

he is not random Twitter account....he is a deputy chief test pilot in HAL....also Brahmos-NG was clearly shown with Tejas during AI-2019

Yet he is not HAL or ADA. Until HAL or ADA or DRDO doesn't confirm that BrahMos-NG is going to be integrated on Tejas we should treat as if BrahMos-NG will not be integrated on Tejas.

 

[Covfefe]

Yet he is not HAL or ADA. Until HAL or ADA or DRDO doesn't confirm that BrahMos-NG is going to be integrated on Tejas we should treat as if BrahMos-NG will not be integrated on Tejas.

HAL itself showcased an LCA model with two Brahmos NG in Defexpo earlier

 

[MonaLazy]

Yet he is not HAL or ADA. Until HAL or ADA or DRDO doesn't confirm that BrahMos-NG is going to be integrated on Tejas we should treat as if BrahMos-NG will not be integrated on Tejas.

Don't think that is in doubt. Was confirmed by Dr Sudhir Kumar Mishra, the CEO & MD of BrahMos Aerospace at DefExpo 2020.

BrahMos NG
The new variant of the missile - BrahMos NG (next generation) - is an interesting weapon. The feasibility studies and engineering analysis are over. We have found that it can be perfectly integrated into LCA, LCA MK-II & AMCA. We want IAF to induct these platforms in large numbers and until then we shall wait.

BrahMos-NG will be ready in the next four years. We are holding on to our investments for now and we will be ready with the new weapon suite when IAF demands it.

(With considerable reduction in weight, in future more number of BrahMos-NGs can be carried by Sukhois, Tejas, AMCA and other platforms.)

Will be ready with BrahMos-NG when IAF demands it: Dr S K Mishra

Onmanorama caught up with Dr Sudhir Kumar Mishra, the CEO & MD of BrahMos Aerospace, for an update on a missile that has no competitor yet in the.BrahMos-NG. IAF. Dr S K Mishra. BrahMos Aerospace

www.onmanorama.com

At the DefExpo 2020, the CEO and MD of BrahMos Aerospace Ltd, Sudhir Kumar Mishra told media outlet Onmanorama that BrahMos NG can be integrated into LCA, LCA MK-II and AMCA. Other aerial systems that it can fit into are MiG-29, Rafael, FGFA and Sukhoi-30MKI. Due to its smaller size, two missiles can be mounted on an LCA and five on a Sukhoi-30MKI.

The missile was displayed at the Aero India’s 2019 edition on the LCA Tejas aircraft for the first time.

BrahMos NG is now ready to be exported and used by the IAF

BrahMos Aerospace Limited, a joint venture between India and Russia, released its latest missile, BrahMos NG (next generation).

forceindia.net

A replica of LCA Tejas carrying the futuristic BRAHMOS-NG missile on display at BrahMos pavilion during Aero India 2019​

AERO INDIA 2019

 

[Flying Dagger]

You should look at the info-graphics released by HAL rather than future predictions by some random twitter account.

You are looking at Tejas Mk1 while NG is meant for mk2 and possibly mk1a.

May be they'll need to strengthen the pylon and modify a few like they did to Sukhoi let's see how it works out eventually. It's not a deal breaker anyway.

 

[Roland55]

India ordered huge R27 stocks recently. So its not that simple I suppose.
Of course India's Astra is better than the R77 series. My whole point is about making the LCA more attractive to countries which already use Russian munitions. In case LCA + Astra combo becomes expensive, a country may opt to integrate the R77 and R27 instead.

Unless someone specifically asks for said armament...its not worth the effort, as an example lets take the 2 recent offerings to sell Tejas, Malaysia and Argentina, the RMAF does operate both Russian and American missiles (AIM-9X, AIM-7, AIM-120 & R-27/73/74/77) If the RMAF chooses to use its Russian missile stock...all of that will be certified.
But in a case like with Argentina, the armament is gonna be chosen as a whole, gravitating towards something more complete like the israeli choices (Python and Derby) or maybe even ASTRA+XX.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Don't you all think Astra integration is taking too much time?
Right now, Tejas doesn't have a good BVR missile integrated

Astra range is similar to Derby though what kind of performance advantage it has over Derby is not known.
It's quite honestly, not plug and play. Integrating a new missile from scratch to certifying it for a particular fighter takes 18-24 months. It's not that simple. For example, aerodynamics tests, carriage tests, free release tests would be carried out. Initial Python integration showed vibration issues, for example.

For now Derby fits the role. Important advantage of Astra is, it's home made.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Astra range is similar to Derby though what kind of performance advantage it has over Derby is not known.
It's quite honestly, not plug and play. Integrating a new missile from scratch to certifying it for a particular fighter takes 18-24 months. It's not that simple. For example, aerodynamics tests, carriage tests, free release tests would be carried out. Initial Python integration showed vibration issues, for example.

For now Derby fits the role. Important advantage of Astra is, it's home made.

Depends if we are talking about I Derby or Derby ER .

The latter one has increased range.


Offcourse there are lot of parameters that include accuracy electronics and seeker quality and advancement etc

We are behind Israel in that regard for now but with time testing and experience to develop it we will learn new things and implement them.

Though people must not chest thump rightaway.

Israeli and French missiles will be the mainstay if IAF for now.

 

[johnj]

Israeli and French missiles will be the mainstay if IAF for now.

No, russian missiles in majority,and mica, python 4, meteor plus asraam in small numbers, and upcoming astra for fighter jets.
Mirage, lca, jaguar and rafale fire non russian missiles.
I derby er little better than astra and similar to c7, astra similar to c5 with russian seeker tech and none of them are same, but all are active rf seeker bvr missile.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

No, russian missiles in majority,and mica, python 4, meteor plus asraam in small numbers, and upcoming astra for fighter jets.
Mirage, lca, jaguar and rafale fire non russian missiles.
I derby er little better than astra and similar to c7, astra similar to c5 with russian seeker tech and none of them are same, but all are active rf seeker bvr missile.

IAF is decided to I-Derby ER are primary BVR on MKI and Tejas gradually replacing its R-77 missiles . It will be supplemented by Astra BVR.
Mica is the primary missile for Mirage and Rafale with Meteor supplementing Rafale. Mica is also deployed on MKI.
IAF also plans to make ASRAAM its standardized dog-fighting missile across multiple aircraft types.
Its true Astra looks like Indian copy of R-77 but as time progresses both the missiles will diverge, especially with Indian seeker operational.

 

[Flying Dagger]

IAF is decided to I-Derby ER are primary BVR on MKI and Tejas gradually replacing its R-77 missiles . It will be supplemented by Astra BVR.
Mica is the primary missile for Mirage and Rafale with Meteor supplementing Rafale. Mica is also deployed on MKI.
IAF also plans to make ASRAAM its standardized dog-fighting missile across multiple aircraft types.
Its true Astra looks like Indian copy of R-77 but as time progresses both the missiles will diverge, especially with Indian seeker operational.

No, russian missiles in majority,and mica, python 4, meteor plus asraam in small numbers, and upcoming astra for fighter jets.
Mirage, lca, jaguar and rafale fire non russian missiles.
I derby er little better than astra and similar to c7, astra similar to c5 with russian seeker tech and none of them are same, but all are active rf seeker bvr missile.

1. Astra did used Russian R-77 seeker initially which is replaced with Indian seeker.

2. Astra was actually designed around Matra 530 D initially if you look at both pics you can clearly see the resemblance anyway.

3. The primary missile right now is R-77 for Sukhoi yes.

It is being replaced though by Derby ER and later Astra series will be integrated with all.

R-73 is replaced by ASRAAM MICA and python for CCM.

All the upcoming new fighter jets will have primary non Russian weapons and Mig 21 is retiring for good.

4. Derby ER isn't little better but outrange and have better overall profile.

Rest we must understand we are challenging Snail when it comes to speed in reforms so things will always move slowly.

 

[Trololo]

1. Astra did used Russian R-77 seeker initially which is replaced with Indian seeker.

2. Astra was actually designed around Matra 530 D initially if you look at both pics you can clearly see the resemblance anyway.

3. The primary missile right now is R-77 for Sukhoi yes.

It is being replaced though by Derby ER and later Astra series will be integrated with all.

R-73 is replaced by ASRAAM MICA and python for CCM.

All the upcoming new fighter jets will have primary non Russian weapons and Mig 21 is retiring for good.

4. Derby ER isn't little better but outrange and have better overall profile.

Rest we must understand we are challenging Snail when it comes to speed in reforms so things will always move slowly.

Few more points:
1> There is strong possibility of an Astra Mk1A using an Indian AESA seeker, with Mk1 becoming a cheap baseline option.
2> Production lot Astra Mk2 will be most definitely with Indian AESA seeker.
3> Astra IR is in development. This will have kinematic characteristics of Astra Mk1 and will be equivalent to Mica IR.
4> R73 will be gone for good and replaced by IIR seeker enabled short range missiles. K74M was the Russian equivalent of Python5 or Asraam, but India will not go for it.
5> Astra will possibly become a big hit in the international market, equipping primarily Russian jets. I see north africa and vietnam as top customers.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Few more points:
1> There is strong possibility of an Astra Mk1A using an Indian AESA seeker, with Mk1 becoming a cheap baseline option.

It is unlikely Ku band AESA Seeker will be immediately replacing Ku-band RF Seeker in the production models of the Astra Mk1 missile, till it has been certified after completion of series of trials by the IAF. This will take a long time. Most probably Ku band AESA Seeker might only be fielded during midlife updgrade of the missile and follow on order if any later on (post 2025).
Astra Mk2 under development will feature an AESA active seeker head. Though missile validation will take time.

5> Astra will possibly become a big hit in the international market, equipping primarily Russian jets. I see north africa and vietnam as top customers.

Not unless they buy Tejas. Aircraft manufacturers ties to sell only missiles originating from their home country.
Missile export is more lucrative than selling aircraft.
Russians will promote their missiles and will do anything persuade these AFs from using Indian missile on their jets.

 

[Roland55]

Few more points:
1> There is strong possibility of an Astra Mk1A using an Indian AESA seeker, with Mk1 becoming a cheap baseline option.

This one?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

This one?

This is the normal Ku-Band seeker.
This is not the Ku-Band AESA seeker.

 

[Covfefe]

This is the normal Ku-Band seeker.
This is not the Ku-Band AESA seeker.

Won't the Ku band pulse Doppler seeker be jammed by the target aircraft?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Won't the Ku band pulse Doppler seeker be jammed by the target aircraft?

Yes. This was exactly how we protected our MKI when F-16 fired AIM-120C on us.
We jammed AIM-120C using ELL-8222 Self-Protection Electronic Countermeasures (ECM) pods .