LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[MonaLazy]

news on MK1A production?

Before production, all the changes have to be put together, flown and tested over 2 years. This test aircraft will fly in June. Now that the contract is signed, who can sabotage this program and how? Only if HAL does not respect time can questions be raised. First 1A is to be delivered in Feb '24 (3 years of contract signing from 3 Feb '21), first three aircraft in 2024, balance in 5 years @16/yr.

‘Light Combat Aircraft MK-1A to take flight in June’

A larger aircraft LCA MK-2 to roll out by year end or early 2023, says HAL MD

www.thehindu.com

 

[karn]

The Americans have the entire FCS for the Tejas.. atleast until our cooperation with them..

 

[MonaLazy]

The Americans have the entire FCS for the Tejas.. atleast until our cooperation with them..

They helped us develop the state of the art fully redundant quadruplex digital fly-by-wire flight control system. But the control laws (essentially a giant look up table for control surfaces depending on speed, attitude and various other params) were entirely our doing.

The LCA LIFT BTW does the same:

India offers LCA Tejas trainer variant to US Navy: Report

To replace the US Navy’s T-38 Goshawk, India touts the LIFT variant of the LCA Tejas

www.theweek.in

Also noticed in the video he called HAL Tejas as a nimble fighter- that could count as praise?

 

[Whitecollar]

And no one around the world will give production rate of 50 for an order book of 40+80 jets... That is not how it works...

Me shouting at IAF Gernails after reading such facts:

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Size is also a limitation, the packaging of the LCA is incredibly complex and there’s no excess internal space to add additional features hence they have to be externally mounted. Also internal fuel quantity isn’t particularly great for LCA

The IAF wanted LCA to fit into the infrastructure of the MiG-21 hence a lot of compromises had to be made, the MK.2 addresses this to a large degree.

Myopia of the highest degree. I don’t know why everything has to be ‘light’- ALH, LCH, LUH, LCA etc etc. Being the lightest is nothing to brag about, capabilities are what counts.

a Rafale class medium fighter is probably the ideal fighter size hence why AMCA and TEDBF are in that ballpark.

Small aircrafts are hard to spot , and in case of deck based fighter aircrafts size and weight matters because an aircraft carrier has limited space and weight carrying capacity

 

[SimplyIndian]

What is RCS is tejas from 100 km. If it can't be detected from 100km by enemy, LCA will be lethal with its BVRs.

is there any program it make LCA mk1a and mk2 stealth as well?

As compare to F22 how our stealth AMCA will be.

 

[Whitecollar]

 

[samsaptaka]

Agreed, but you have to consider that Tejas was supposed to be tech demonstrator, later, much newer platform would've been built by learning from it. We can't just blame IAF here, when it comes to "reliability" (although reliability is tough nugget to eat if you stretch it for too much, example Mig 21Bs), LCA wasn't ready because the armaments weren't ready yet, its in year 21 when we saw FOC. Hate to brake it you, but radar and armaments is as crucial as an engine, we don't want our pilots to fire R73 duds, where our piolet has to go near an F16 and fire it to bring it down, and also almost loose there life.

A product can only be better, if the tech and product runway are both aligned. Tejas was plagued by funding from the start, not to mention sanctions. IAF for the better part is lollygagging still. They would accept the product like any other good or best product if they stand head to head with the best if not better. They don't want a jet which doesn't come equipped with an AESA + SAR, AIM120D level or much better, meteor level of NEZ, Spectra like SPJs and NATO's Link 16 like awareness.

However, IAF is now playing politics much better, because to this day, IA or Navy have much better part of defense budget, so they are like, alright... you asked us to spend wisely so we will buy wisely, not invest wisely because you didn't allowed us to save much.

The crux of the matter is IAF being an airforce of a developing country expects Western standard quality from domestic industry, but does not apply the same standard to imported ruskie junk !

 

[FalconSlayers]

What is RCS is tejas from 100 km. If it can't be detected from 100km by enemy, LCA will be lethal with its BVRs.

is there any program it make LCA mk1a and mk2 stealth as well?

As compare to F22 how our stealth AMCA will be.

LCA Tejas RCS is 0.5m2 (clean)

And how far away it will be detected depends on how powerful the radar your enemy aircraft or hostile ground radars are.

 

[MonaLazy]

What is RCS is tejas from 100 km. If it can't be detected from 100km by enemy, LCA will be lethal with its BVRs.

is there any program it make LCA mk1a and mk2 stealth as well?

As compare to F22 how our stealth AMCA will be.

Uttam tracked another Tejas (1.5m²) at 82Nm away!


As per this tweet, Tejas has an RCS of 1.5m² at 152kms

Mk1A has RAM paint, Mk2 will have even better RAM coating.

How can we compare F22 to AMCA? They have been making stealth planes since F117 days which had it's first flight 40 years ago. In the time we were perfecting LCA, US has fielded F22 & F35, working on B-21 & 6th gen has flown. There is no comparison at all, we are so new to stealth that we are not even thinking of concealing engine exhaust so AMCA will be frontal stealth while F22 is all aspect stealth. Only place where AMCA may outdo F22 is in the electronics, sensors, avionics & perhaps aerodynamic optimization (like DSI, lower drag etc) but is only because better technology is now available off the shelf for plugging in 24 years later.

What could be a starker contrast than the realisation that F22 was built, flown, saw limited service because of cost, stopped production, has a side kick now in F35 and it's replacement aircraft has already flown while AMCA is still on the drawing board (CDR expected by year end). GoI is yet to release funds for AMCA saar!

Also where are the engines?? We have nothing remotely comparable to F119/F135/XA-100.

HAL joins DRDO in building 5th-gen advanced combat aircraft

www.ajaishukla.com

 

[SARTHAK]

View attachment 134746

Uttam tracked another Tejas (1.5m²) at 82Nm away!


As per this tweet, Tejas has an RCS of 1.5m² at 152kms

Mk1A has RAM paint, Mk2 will have even better RAM coating.

How can we compare F22 to AMCA? They have been making stealth planes since F117 days which had it's first flight 40 years ago. In the time we were perfecting LCA, US has fielded F22 & F35, working on B-21 & 6th gen has flown. There is no comparison at all, we are so new to stealth that we are not even thinking of concealing engine exhaust so AMCA will be frontal stealth while F22 is all aspect stealth. Only place where AMCA may outdo F22 is in the electronics, sensors, avionics & perhaps aerodynamic optimization (like DSI, lower drag etc) but is only because better technology is now available off the shelf for plugging in 24 years later.

What could be a starker contrast than the realisation that F22 was built, flown, saw limited service because of cost, stopped production, has a side kick now in F35 and it's replacement aircraft has already flown while AMCA is still on the drawing board (CDR expected by year end). GoI is yet to release funds for AMCA saar!

Also where are the engines?? We have nothing remotely comparable to F119/F135/XA-100.

HAL joins DRDO in building 5th-gen advanced combat aircraft

www.ajaishukla.com

mk2 will be more staelthy (source ddr interview

 

[no smoking]

LCA Tejas RCS is 0.5m2 (clean)

Is there any official source to support that?

 

[SARTHAK]

Is there any official source to support that?

how can rcs figure be quoted in an official source, all these are speculation,btw you can watch delhi defence review interview of aero india 2021 ,the officialsays mk2 will have lesser rcs than tejas mk1 (watch from 12 minute onwards)

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

how can rcs figure be quoted in an official source, all these are speculation,btw you can watch delhi defence review interview of aero india 2021 ,the officialsays mk2 will have lesser rcs than tejas mk1 (watch from 12 minute onwards)

But it’s a much bigger aircraft and i didn’t see any geometrical stealth in its model which was showcased RAM coating alone can’t reduce the RCS to make a big difference

 

[SARTHAK]

But it’s a much bigger aircraft and i didn’t see any geometrical stealth in its model which was showcased RAM coating alone can’t reduce the RCS to make a big difference

the officer who is giving interview is explicitly saying it ,i also thought the same for canarads,as they do contribute to rcs but what thickness and quality of RAM coating is obviously unknown so cannot say certainly but he explicitly mentioned the no. of t/r modules ,even said that they improved the cooling and power management so he was open to share the details,hence i think we said trust him on rcs

 

[Whitecollar]

View attachment 134746

Uttam tracked another Tejas (1.5m²) at 82Nm away!


As per this tweet, Tejas has an RCS of 1.5m² at 152kms

Mk1A has RAM paint, Mk2 will have even better RAM coating.

How can we compare F22 to AMCA? They have been making stealth planes since F117 days which had it's first flight 40 years ago. In the time we were perfecting LCA, US has fielded F22 & F35, working on B-21 & 6th gen has flown. There is no comparison at all, we are so new to stealth that we are not even thinking of concealing engine exhaust so AMCA will be frontal stealth while F22 is all aspect stealth. Only place where AMCA may outdo F22 is in the electronics, sensors, avionics & perhaps aerodynamic optimization (like DSI, lower drag etc) but is only because better technology is now available off the shelf for plugging in 24 years later.

What could be a starker contrast than the realisation that F22 was built, flown, saw limited service because of cost, stopped production, has a side kick now in F35 and it's replacement aircraft has already flown while AMCA is still on the drawing board (CDR expected by year end). GoI is yet to release funds for AMCA saar!

Also where are the engines?? We have nothing remotely comparable to F119/F135/XA-100.

HAL joins DRDO in building 5th-gen advanced combat aircraft

www.ajaishukla.com

Wait...that display shows Tejas to be flying in the direction of test aircraft and not against it. So technically, the 1.5m2 RCS mentioned is for rear aspect. Frontal aspect of MK1 may very well be between 0.5-1 m².

 

[ladder]

View attachment 134746

Uttam tracked another Tejas (1.5m²) at 82Nm away!


As per this tweet, Tejas has an RCS of 1.5m² at 152kms

Mk1A has RAM paint, Mk2 will have even better RAM coating.

How can we compare F22 to AMCA? They have been making stealth planes since F117 days which had it's first flight 40 years ago. In the time we were perfecting LCA, US has fielded F22 & F35, working on B-21 & 6th gen has flown. There is no comparison at all, we are so new to stealth that we are not even thinking of concealing engine exhaust so AMCA will be frontal stealth while F22 is all aspect stealth. Only place where AMCA may outdo F22 is in the electronics, sensors, avionics & perhaps aerodynamic optimization (like DSI, lower drag etc) but is only because better technology is now available off the shelf for plugging in 24 years later.

What could be a starker contrast than the realisation that F22 was built, flown, saw limited service because of cost, stopped production, has a side kick now in F35 and it's replacement aircraft has already flown while AMCA is still on the drawing board (CDR expected by year end). GoI is yet to release funds for AMCA saar!

Also where are the engines?? We have nothing remotely comparable to F119/F135/XA-100.

HAL joins DRDO in building 5th-gen advanced combat aircraft

www.ajaishukla.com

The reference of 1.5 m2 is a standard fighter size target.
I can't conclude tejas RCS at 150 km is 1.5 m2 from this tweet.
My opinion.

 

[Whitecollar]

the officialsays mk2 will have lesser rcs than tejas mk1 (watch from 12 minute onwards)

That may be true for an empty config MK1 vs MK2(assuming canard remains parallel to wings). After all the pylons are loaded with mission specific armaments/equipments, the overall RCS of MK2 will easily exceed the MK1/1A(simply because of more exposed surfaces of attached components)

 

[SARTHAK]

That may be true for an empty config MK1 vs MK2(assuming canard remains parallel to wings). After all the pylons are loaded with mission specific armaments/equipments, the overall RCS of MK2 will easily exceed the MK1/1A(simply because of more exposed surfaces of attached components)

maybe he meant for a2a roles

 

[MonaLazy]

The reference of 1.5 m2 is a standard fighter size target.
I can't conclude tejas RCS at 150 km is 1.5 m2 from this tweet.
My opinion.

Of course, one can never be too sure. But a few things:
1. The picture seems pulled from some DRDO presentation- looks legit
2. The guy is admin of https://www.facebook.com/TeamAMCA/
3. If you see top left it says Target Aircraft Tejas
4. If you see bottom left "Tracks & Plots on PPI" the red plotting goes all the way up to ~83 Nm.