LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[MonaLazy]

But the fact remains HAL doesn't decide anything. Its the customer in this IAF that would decide if wants to buy Tejas Mk. 2

Customer wanted to go to Mk2 right after 20 IOC and 20 FOC. The 99 engine F414 deal back in 2013 was a step in that direction. Things don't always go as per customer's plans- which is a good thing!

 

[Alfalfa]

Yes I am glad to hear that and Mk2 will never be dead and that's a fact!
Because it's an important Project for Indian Aerospace Sector because it will be used to replace Aircrafts like Mirage 2000s, Mikoyan MIG 29 etc.
Also the knowledge which will be Gained in this project will be very important in the coming years to come for future projects like AMCA etc.

All that is fine, but fact on ground is that the IAF top brass maintains an eerie silence on the Mk2, also while there are claims of steel cutting commencing in 2022 and first flight in 2023, (IOC end 2023 i think).. none of this is substantiated as of now

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

View attachment 126026

Most overseas items are from Europe, particularly France. Minimal from USA apart from engine. Which makes me want to reiterate my statement that the LCA in its current form is a Mini Mirage 2000++. And that's a good thing. Also, our aircraft design philosophy is very French.

Would be, preliminary designing was facilitated by dassault

 

[Trololo]

All that is fine, but fact on ground is that the IAF top brass maintains an eerie silence on the Mk2, also while there are claims of steel cutting commencing in 2022 and first flight in 2023, (IOC end 2023 i think).. none of this is substantiated as of now

If metal cutting has began for the Mk2 then HAL should allow reporters to come see the progress and report on it. This will put all claims to rest for now.

 

[MonaLazy]

All that is fine, but fact on ground is that the IAF top brass maintains an eerie silence on the Mk2, also while there are claims of steel cutting commencing in 2022 and first flight in 2023, (IOC end 2023 i think).. none of this is substantiated as of now

Please post a source for your assertion..


From IAF...

I think our steps are well known to everybody. We have signed the contract for 83 LCA; the AMCA and LCA-Mk2 are on the cards: IAF Chief, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari to ANI, on Indian Air Force's steps for future in the direction of 'Make in India' initiative



From HAL...

https://www.bwdefence.businessworld.in//article/With-Certainty-LCA-MK-2-Aircraft-Is-Slated-To-Enter-Production-By-2027-And-AMCA-By-2035-HAL-CMD-R.-Madhavan-/17-11-2021-412249

Next of course, is the LCA Mark 2. The DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organization) is the lead agency and the partners for design. The contract with GE Aviation is for procurement of 99 fully finished engines along with engine support packages. Additionally, module change workshops and engine test beds will be established at Air Force bases by HAL. Regarding MRO, HAL has indicated its readiness to set up the MRO facility. However, the contract does not envisage setting up an MRO facility in India. It is understood that IAF is in discussion with GE Aviation for establishing a D-Level maintenance facility.



Manish K. Jha- When can we expect the first prototype?

R. Madhavan- That is a roll-out. After that it takes about a year’s time for it to go for taxi trials. And then, from there onwards the testing and certification happens. So hopefully, by 2026 all the testings’ will be completed and the production activity will be started from there onwards.

Manish K. Jha- So the ‘stealth’ is a key feature of MK2?

R. Madhavan- Stealth is there. Super cruise is one of them--The super cruise speed.



Manish K. Jha- You recently said GE-made F414 engines will be manufactured in India for the upcoming LCA Mk2 programme. India has not been able to secure such ToTs to be able to initiate modern jet engines despite many promises and MoUs with international partners. That was also the case with the Rafale offset arrangement. What are the bottlenecks? Is it not a top most priority that should be addressed by top leaders under a national mission?

R. Madhavan- The LCA MK2 is a Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) aircraft to be powered by GE F414 engines, a fully modular engine of 95KN thrust. During the engine selection for LCA Mk2 programme, GE has proposed ToT of around 60 per cent in a phased manner for manufacturing GE 414 engines in India. However, ToT proposals have business and strategic intent and generally technologically / commercially critical parts are restricted by the OEM (original equipment manufacturers). Also ToT is generally only for manufacturing technology for the agreed parts in the country.


Guru Kota in the Hamara Tejas series has also pointed to full speed progress with little road blocks on Mk2.

 

[Super Flanker]

All that is fine, but fact on ground is that the IAF top brass maintains an eerie silence on the Mk2, also while there are claims of steel cutting commencing in 2022 and first flight in 2023, (IOC end 2023 i think).. none of this is substantiated as of now

Yeah

 

[thefewthefearless]

Yea in that case , they have 100 B1 and 2 while we are having only 22-24 in the last count. And our IOC can't fire BVR yet. They probably need an software updates I would say.

As far as I concerned or anyone in that matter.is, it can fly, it is bad that even Chinese haven't got one but manufactures 50% of the fuselage along with all the avionics. What Pakistan does is the wings, wirings, paint and do test flights. Quantity has a quality of its own.

i find it funny when people compare the aircraft with only one feature : "bvr". nothing against you but we have enough su 30 mki and mig29 upg. bvr is nothing much special most of the aircrafts can dodge them. their specs are only applicable to best conditions. both blocks are 3 to 3.5 gen.

it's so reliable that even paf doesn't use it in most combat scenarios. maybe they are saving their best allah approved aircrafts for future ghazwa e hind holy war.

p.s.: do we need better bvr? yes. is amraam better than r-77? yes

 

[MonaLazy]

If metal cutting has began for the Mk2 then HAL should allow reporters to come see the progress and report on it. This will put all claims to rest for now.

In this interview straight from the horse's mouth in January 2021 specifically for Mk2:

• Mk2 design is complete
• Detailed design is on
• Long lead parts are being fabricated
• In HAL now the aircraft is coming into a reality
• We are on track to do the roll out by mid of 2022.. currently on schedule and we don't see any issues there.. that's progressed very well
• Wind tunnel tests ongoing, some are done some are coming up very shortly in India and abroad
• Well beyond PDR, all the PDRs are over, reaching the CDR stage by the end of this year
• More than 50-60% of the work is over to start flight testing
• Flight testing should begin by '23
• Uses all the technologies which have been matured in LCA, unlike AMCA, it is just a consolidation of all the tech which took all these years to master and put it in a bigger, more capable platform with a higher payload carrying capability and so on
• Plus all the lessons learnt in Mk1- weight reduction and drag reduction
• All of the raw material is procured
• Some of the metal cutting has started
• By mid 2022 the aircraft will roll

So CDRs were expected to complete by end of 2021.

Update on 22/11/2021:

Boon for Indian industries waiting in wings of LCA Mark II

www.deccanherald.com

I think we are humming along nicely.. there is absolutely no need to get our collective panties in a bunch..

 

[thefewthefearless]

paf wanted jf17 as their frontline interceptor since ages. pak defence analysts were so happy that 1 jf17 will be equal to 10 su30 mki or some shit in marginal costs
looking at what they got with b1 and b2. they were ashamed.
hoping for something good in b3.

 

[thefewthefearless]

jf17 b3 almost smells like what soviets did with mig-25 foxbat.

 

[Love Charger]

jf17 b3 almost smells like what soviets did with mig-25 foxbat.

What did the Soviets do to mig 25

 

[Dark Sorrow]

What did the Soviets do to mig 25

My thoughts exactly

 

[thefewthefearless]

My thoughts exactly

What did the Soviets do to mig 25

it was their pr machine with inferior tech

 

[Love Charger]

it was their pr machine

Oh pr machine , i thought jf 17 b3 is a devastating interceptor .

 

[thefewthefearless]

Oh pr machine , i thought jf 17 b3 is a devastating interceptor .

mig 25 was "khoda pahad nikla chutiya"

 

[Love Charger]

Is j 10c a rafale level aircraft ?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

mig 25 was "khoda pahad nikla chutiya"

But its aerodynamic and flying characteristics were quite commendable.
Though its radar was built using obsolete technology it was quite impressive.

 

[thefewthefearless]

But its aerodynamic and flying characteristics were quite commendable.
Though its radar was built using obsolete technology it was quite impressive.

yes it was. but it was piss poor in combat. i mean fighters aircrafts should be meant for combat and not for show flying i guess.
just like jf17 on paper has pretty good tech. however i'm doubting it's combat capabilities. b1 and b2 already showed us their superhuman capabilities.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

IAF may not get their wish this time. Not to mention that if HAL conveys that MK2 is ready and very much within the committed timeline to the political leadership, chances are that the funds for foreign jets (that will also take around 4-5 years to join IAF at the earliest) will be diverted for Mk2. Don't think that Ninda Turtle will allow the 99 engine order to go waste from GE.

Customer always gets his way. If IAF doesn't want them they will make sure not to get them.
HAL can say anything but if customer is not ready to pay, things would not move ahead.
At the end of day this is a business deal and what customer wants only matters. Customer is the KING.
To the extreme GoI and force it (Mk2) down the throat of IAF but until IAF accepts it their is nothing HAL can do.
Best bet is to make IAF realize that procuring Tejas Mk. 2 is in their best interest.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

yes it was. but it was piss poor in combat. i mean fighters aircrafts should be meant for combat and not for show flying i guess.

Are you talking about Mig-25 or JF-17?
MiG-25 is a supersonic interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft . It performed its job very well. It was designed to take photos from altitude as well as intercept enemy bombers.
It was never designed to engage with other aerial fighters.