LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Spitfire9]

Suppose if HAL delivers 40 Tejas in 2 years with massive investment and workforce then they will have to sit idle for the next 2 year and have to pay salary with her own pocket. this would be a good example of bankruptcy. The whole defence ecosystem is largely dependent on how the Armed forces run it. Private player will also run away if Armed forces keep on giving piecemeal/ inadequate orders.

How do other companies operate with fluctuating demand? As far as I know from a French guy long ago, Rafale build capacity was around 20 a year but assembly workers did not sit around being paid to do nothing when Rafale build rate was 11 a year. Dassault had the imagination to cross-train assembly workers so that when demand for Rafale was slack they could work on business jets and vice versa.

If as an industrial strategy India wants to enter the world market for fighters, I think that far more commitment and better minds will be required. Having a capacity to build 16-20 fighters a year is too small a capacity to supply IAF and to export as well. You might as well scrap the whole idea of exporting if any time you get an order the supply to IAF has to be reduced and aircraft are imported to supply IAF.

 

[Ghost hale]

4 ready FOC can be handed over anytime. 2 already with IAF. Rest 10 FOC by Mar 2022. That seems to be the plan. 430+ SMEs and foreign equipment makers delivery is delayed. This was all communicated in the interview.
I think Madhavan Sir should have started manufacturing every screws and bolt in HAL at production rate before pandemic started. How come he didn't had Nostradamus foresightedness? This is all HAL and GOIs fault. Full agreement with everyone.
And If HAL can't do it.... then I know some "literate people" from various universities. They can sure shoot Tejas FOC from their a** that to 20 aircrafts per year.

 

[MonaLazy]

2 already with IAF

AFAIK only 1 FOC with IAF as mentioned here. Any source for the 2nd aircraft delivered?

 

[Bleh]

AFAIK only 1 FOC with IAF as mentioned here. Any source for the 2nd aircraft delivered?

4 ready FOC can be handed over anytime. 2 already with IAF.

No hasn't.. 2nd 3rd 4th 5th are top be delivered in July as mentioned above.

6th have flown but not ready for delivery. 7th built but not flown. 8 more to be built in 2021-22 financial year apparently.

 

[Ghost hale]

AFAIK only 1 FOC with IAF as mentioned here. Any source for the 2nd aircraft delivered?

Can't find original article that stated 2 delivered. But by sources even as left sided as print the count was 14 remaining in Jan.

Tejas keeps India's capability gap with China under check. It is HAL's game to lose now

Although several major air forces like France, Germany and the US are still inducting or ordering fourth-generation fighters, their capabilities and threats are distinct from India’s.

theprint.in

3rd FOC Tejas Mk1 spotted ready for Delivery – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

No hasn't.. 2nd 3rd 4th 5th are top be delivered in July as mentioned above.

6th have flown but not ready for delivery. 7th built but not flown. 8 more to be built in 2021-22 financial year apparently.

I think ur one count is less. 2nd is with IAF. I m sure I read that in Jan itself.

 

[Ghost hale]

@Bleh @Lonewolf lets focus on tejas specific details in the thread. Kindly ignore any comments on other topic. No use.

 

[onlinpunit]

@Bleh @Lonewolf lets focus on tejas specific details in the thread. Kindly ignore any comments on other topic. No use.

I had asked a simple question regarding current status of FOC std LCA. After SP 26/27 flight in March we have not seen any thing new.
Also the planes manufactured so far are still with HAL.

 

[Ghost hale]

I had asked a simple question regarding current status of FOC std LCA. After SP 26/27 flight in March we have not seen any thing new.
Also the planes manufactured so far are still with HAL.

As many informed... 4 ready for induction. 10 by Mar 2022. I think that ends discussion on that question.

 

[MonaLazy]

Can't find original article that stated 2 delivered.

3rd FOC Tejas Mk1 spotted ready for Delivery – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

From this article

SP-18 made its first flight last year but was not delivered to IAF.

..it does look like from the FOC lot only SP-17 is with IAF. The article is from late Jan 2021 but then covid created a pause at HAL so more or less status would be the same. So for all 16 FOC from SP-17 > 32

SP-17 flying with IAF (+1)
SP-18/19/20/21 ready for delivery (+4)
SP-22 progressing well but not ready for delivery (+1)
-- Mar 2021
SP-23 doubtful if ready pushed to current fiscal (+1)
SP-24 > 32 (+9)
-- Mar 2022

 

[Bleh]

Nothing ! Just View attachment 94211Don't put too much pressure in your knees..

What's with the trolling?.. Not a single counterpoint raised in the whole conversation!

You'd asked a question. That was answered. Which you didn't like because private partners turned out to be the culprits, where you expected to have some PSU bashing. Ok.
But don't go derailing the thread because of that.

 

[Ghost hale]

From this article


..it does look like from the FOC lot only SP-17 is with IAF. The article is from late Jan 2021 but then covid created a pause at HAL so more or less status would be the same. So for all 16 FOC from SP-17 > 32

SP-17 flying with IAF (+1)
SP-18/19/20/21 ready for delivery (+4)
SP-22 progressing well but not ready for delivery (+1)
-- Mar 2021
SP-23 doubtful if ready pushed to current fiscal (+1)
SP-24 > 32 (+9)
-- Mar 2022

SP - 22 already had flight test in march.

5th and 6th FOC Tejas MK1 takes to Air – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Plan is what I mentioned in my previous post and yes I m not able to find that article with 2 FOC with IAF mentioned.
U can ignore that as I don't have article but I m quite confident I read that. Credibility I can't confirm as don't even remember the source.

Its SP-17,18 IAF
SP - 19,20,21,22 HAL
10 till march 2022 to complete FOC delivery.
NOTE - As per my info. U can very well disagree.

 

[Lonewolf]

Reading through the debate re: a monopoly situation existing in fast jet manufacture, what steps can GOI take to start down the route of developing an alternative to HAL?

By the way, is there nowhere else to discuss this?

Get to drdo psu thread ,tag me there will invilte others too

 

[omaebakabaka]

How do other companies operate with fluctuating demand? As far as I know from a French guy long ago, Rafale build capacity was around 20 a year but assembly workers did not sit around being paid to do nothing when Rafale build rate was 11 a year. Dassault had the imagination to cross-train assembly workers so that when demand for Rafale was slack they could work on business jets and vice versa.

If as an industrial strategy India wants to enter the world market for fighters, I think that far more commitment and better minds will be required. Having a capacity to build 16-20 fighters a year is too small a capacity to supply IAF and to export as well. You might as well scrap the whole idea of exporting if any time you get an order the supply to IAF has to be reduced and aircraft are imported to supply IAF.

We can worry all of the optimizations later...first task is to get a quality product that is desired by IAF.....we are literally threatened by China everyday adn even 200 additional fighters wont be too large of a number to have rightnow

 

[Spitfire9]

We can worry all of the optimizations later...first task is to get a quality product that is desired by IAF.....

Tejas is well thought of by IAF, isn't it?

.....we are literally threatened by China everyday adn even 200 additional fighters wont be too large of a number to have rightnow

Tell that to GOI/HAL.

As I understand things, HAL does not want to increase production capacity (I said capacity, not what actually comes off the line) beyond 3/4 of a squadron per year. If everything went perfectly, there were no delays, production of one type ended one day and production of a different type started the next day, the earliest that 200 fighters could be expected would be mid-2030's.

Of course, if GOI/HAL's main concern is not to waste money on building capacity that could one day be idle due to lack of orders, India can squander many times the cost of increasing production by buying foreign fighters instead! That also avoids the dreadful idea that HAL should have to spend time and money doing what every other OEM does - marketing their product to more than just their own air force. Why should HAL take the risk of becoming a pukka, successful business if the risks associated with success can be avoided?

 

[omaebakabaka]

Tejas is well thought of by IAF, isn't it?


Tell that to GOI/HAL.

As I understand things, HAL does not want to increase production capacity (I said capacity, not what actually comes off the line) beyond 3/4 of a squadron per year. If everything went perfectly, there were no delays, production of one type ended one day and production of a different type started the next day, the earliest that 200 fighters could be expected would be mid-2030's.

Of course, if GOI/HAL's main concern is not to waste money on building capacity that could one day be idle due to lack of orders, India can squander many times the cost of increasing production by buying foreign fighters instead! That also avoids the dreadful idea that HAL should have to spend time and money doing what every other OEM does - marketing their product to more than just their own air force. Why should HAL take the risk of becoming a pukka, successful business if the risks associated with success can be avoided?

I think even one aircraft a month is good enough for me...only way is for GOI to put both DRDO and its offshoots and IA/UAF/IN in the hotseat by forcing force to mandatorily give space for experimental divisions and therefore challenging DRDO to deliver and sustain....rest all is talk and bluster indigenous this and that and force saying its not good enough and what not....one thing I would error on is that force can't wait for DRDO to deliver for ever, hence they have to buy what they need to to keep threats in check.

We waste money and lots of it because time is money and we just waste it and take same decisions that should have take 10 years ago.

 

[Lonewolf]

Tejas is well thought of by IAF, isn't it?


Tell that to GOI/HAL.

As I understand things, HAL does not want to increase production capacity (I said capacity, not what actually comes off the line) beyond 3/4 of a squadron per year. If everything went perfectly, there were no delays, production of one type ended one day and production of a different type started the next day, the earliest that 200 fighters could be expected would be mid-2030's.

Of course, if GOI/HAL's main concern is not to waste money on building capacity that could one day be idle due to lack of orders, India can squander many times the cost of increasing production by buying foreign fighters instead! That also avoids the dreadful idea that HAL should have to spend time and money doing what every other OEM does - marketing their product to more than just their own air force. Why should HAL take the risk of becoming a pukka, successful business if the risks associated with success can be avoided?

Last time i calculated they have current capacity of 24-28 without any new facility opened , some are under utilized , other are yet to be inaugurated

 

[Spitfire9]

Last time i calculated they have current capacity of 24-28 without any new facility opened , some are under utilized , other are yet to be inaugurated

Why then did MOD not order more Tejas some time ago? IAF needs fighters.

Something very strange has been going on if 10 years from start of production only 20-25 aircraft have been built and in that time production capacity has risen from 4 to 8 (now 16) a year. It is tempting to say that India (GOI/IAF/HAL et al) are simply incapable of organising ordering and production.

I'm a betting man. I would not bet on India averaging production of more than 1 fighter a month for the rest of this decade (enough for 5 squadrons).

And when are the remaining MiG-21's being withdrawn from service? How many squadons would that be? I would put money on another 36 Rafale being ordered soon and the the wheels of an MMRCA 2.0 starting to grind around fairly soon. I would not be surprised if that took so long that yet another 36 Rafales were ordered half way through and MMRCA 2.0 became history, just like 1.0 did.

That's how the Indian procurement system works, it would seem (hopelessly badly).

Had my say. Hope I'm proved wrong.

 

[Bleh]

Same case for F-35 apparently..

Why Canada does not need the F-35

L’auteur est un fonctionnaire d’une organisation régionale The author is a civil servant in a regional organisation RG v1 n2, 2015 Mots clés : capacité des chasseurs aériens, défense, Canada, OTAN,…

cqegheiulaval.com

The latest information available on the Air Force version of the F-35 reveals a remarkably short range (1 135 km of total operational autonomy, the equivalent of a 570 km combat radius).

 

[Starlight]

Same case for F-35 apparently..

Why Canada does not need the F-35

L’auteur est un fonctionnaire d’une organisation régionale The author is a civil servant in a regional organisation RG v1 n2, 2015 Mots clés : capacité des chasseurs aériens, défense, Canada, OTAN,…

cqegheiulaval.com

We have the LCA to evolve. Why THE JAS - 39 GRIPEN E is still lurking for IAF orders is beyond reason.

 

[patriots]

4 Tejas foc are ready to be delivered will be in July only

Bdw another interesting thing is happening with tejas , obviously for mk1a program
So Tejas can fire 2 ccms
And 1 bvr ...

And astra in line

Bdw what more you expect from a light aircraft