LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Ar.gaurav28]

All migs are to be retired by 2025. It's already half past 2021. So 3 .5 years more of MiG-21.

Wish if they could expedite their retirement by expediting the production and induction of mk1a!

 

[IndianHawk]

Wish if they could expedite their retirement by expediting the production and induction of mk1a!

Mk1a is already on fast track. It can't come any faster. We could build additional mk1 faster but iaf wants mk1a after 40 mk1.

MiG-21 will be retired continuously from 2022-2025 only those with sufficient airframe life will serve till 2025 when all will be retired completely.

Their use will come down and number of flights will decrease to improve safety.

With s400 coming MiG-21 load will be decreased as S400 system will permanently defend a large area.

 

[IndianHawk]

Copy pasting an excellent answer of mig21 replacement from brf .

Credit to laxman from brf.

We may want many things to happen but nothing is going to change...
I'm reposting one if my earlier posts...
-
From 2019 to 2029, IAF has retired/is planning to retire thd following jets:-
2 Sqdns of MIG27 (already retired)
6 Sqdns of MIG21
3 Sqdns of Jaguars
Total 11 Squadrons to be retired...
-
They will induct/have inducted the following:-
2 Sqdns Tejas Mk1
2 Sqdns Su30 MKI
2 Sqdns Rafale
1 Sqdn MIG29
4 Sqdns Tejas Mk1A
Total 11 squadrons to be inducted...
----
Out of the new squadrons coming up,
One Su30 squadron is already raised in Thanjavur, 2nd one will mostly be raised in Eastern sector (Chabua probably)...
2 Rafale squadrons will be ready by 2022, one in Western sector and one in Eastern sector...
Tejas will move to Rajasthan and Srinagar and will be fully ready by 2022/23...
One MIG29 squadron will also be raised by 2025 and will be based in Western sector...
And Tejas Mk1A squadrons will start being raised from 2025 at rate of 1 squadron per year and all of them will be in Western sector only...

So, even by 2025 you will have enough replacements for 4 Bison squadrons in Western sector...
So, we can expect retirement of Bisons to commence 2023 or 2024 itself...
----
2 squadrons of MRFA may also come in this decade, but I doubt it is going to go anywhere... If things go well, we may see MRFA cancelled and 2-3 more squadrons of Rafale ordered as well...
Tejas Mk2 is not going come in numbers this decade...
----
So, while situation is bad, it is not going to get any worse... It will only get better from 2022 onwards...
Yes, damage is already done by not ordering Tejas earlier and in larger numbers... But it can not be changed now...
IAF won't be ordering more Mk1 or Mk1A either... They'll stick with the current plans...

 

[Lonewolf]

Copy pasting an excellent answer of mig21 replacement from brf .

Credit to laxman from brf.

We may want many things to happen but nothing is going to change...
I'm reposting one if my earlier posts...
-
From 2019 to 2029, IAF has retired/is planning to retire thd following jets:-
2 Sqdns of MIG27 (already retired)
6 Sqdns of MIG21
3 Sqdns of Jaguars
Total 11 Squadrons to be retired...
-
They will induct/have inducted the following:-
2 Sqdns Tejas Mk1
2 Sqdns Su30 MKI
2 Sqdns Rafale
1 Sqdn MIG29
4 Sqdns Tejas Mk1A
Total 11 squadrons to be inducted...
----
Out of the new squadrons coming up,
One Su30 squadron is already raised in Thanjavur, 2nd one will mostly be raised in Eastern sector (Chabua probably)...
2 Rafale squadrons will be ready by 2022, one in Western sector and one in Eastern sector...
Tejas will move to Rajasthan and Srinagar and will be fully ready by 2022/23...
One MIG29 squadron will also be raised by 2025 and will be based in Western sector...
And Tejas Mk1A squadrons will start being raised from 2025 at rate of 1 squadron per year and all of them will be in Western sector only...

So, even by 2025 you will have enough replacements for 4 Bison squadrons in Western sector...
So, we can expect retirement of Bisons to commence 2023 or 2024 itself...
----
2 squadrons of MRFA may also come in this decade, but I doubt it is going to go anywhere... If things go well, we may see MRFA cancelled and 2-3 more squadrons of Rafale ordered as well...
Tejas Mk2 is not going come in numbers this decade...
----
So, while situation is bad, it is not going to get any worse... It will only get better from 2022 onwards...
Yes, damage is already done by not ordering Tejas earlier and in larger numbers... But it can not be changed now...
IAF won't be ordering more Mk1 or Mk1A either... They'll stick with the current plans...

Mk 2 from 2028 in full figure of 18 per annum

 

[Bleh]

Its really sad to see things like this happening again & again...
still years it will take to replace all the 4sqauds of Mig21...
when will the start production of mk1a??
View attachment 90983

Mig-21 crash rate is lower than ever now.. They people who are bitching don't actually know much on what they're bitching about.

 

[Willy3]

Mig-21 crash rate is lower than ever now.. They people who are bitching don't actually know much on what they're bitching about.

They are rightfully "bitching"

In 90s , 2000s we don't have replacement options now we have tejas, yet we aren't inducting it, probably would never been inducted without swargiye Manohar ji.

 

[rohit b3]

Copy pasting an excellent answer of mig21 replacement from brf .

Credit to laxman from brf.

We may want many things to happen but nothing is going to change...
I'm reposting one if my earlier posts...
-
From 2019 to 2029, IAF has retired/is planning to retire thd following jets:-
2 Sqdns of MIG27 (already retired)
6 Sqdns of MIG21
3 Sqdns of Jaguars
Total 11 Squadrons to be retired...
-
They will induct/have inducted the following:-
2 Sqdns Tejas Mk1
2 Sqdns Su30 MKI
2 Sqdns Rafale
1 Sqdn MIG29
4 Sqdns Tejas Mk1A
Total 11 squadrons to be inducted...
----
Out of the new squadrons coming up,
One Su30 squadron is already raised in Thanjavur, 2nd one will mostly be raised in Eastern sector (Chabua probably)...
2 Rafale squadrons will be ready by 2022, one in Western sector and one in Eastern sector...
Tejas will move to Rajasthan and Srinagar and will be fully ready by 2022/23...
One MIG29 squadron will also be raised by 2025 and will be based in Western sector...
And Tejas Mk1A squadrons will start being raised from 2025 at rate of 1 squadron per year and all of them will be in Western sector only...

So, even by 2025 you will have enough replacements for 4 Bison squadrons in Western sector...
So, we can expect retirement of Bisons to commence 2023 or 2024 itself...
----
2 squadrons of MRFA may also come in this decade, but I doubt it is going to go anywhere... If things go well, we may see MRFA cancelled and 2-3 more squadrons of Rafale ordered as well...
Tejas Mk2 is not going come in numbers this decade...
----
So, while situation is bad, it is not going to get any worse... It will only get better from 2022 onwards...
Yes, damage is already done by not ordering Tejas earlier and in larger numbers... But it can not be changed now...
IAF won't be ordering more Mk1 or Mk1A either... They'll stick with the current plans...

Additional Mig29/Su-30MKI deal hasnt been signed yet, so its skeptical .
And pretty sure 3 Squadrons of Jaguars wont be retired anytime soon. They may "plan" to, but the plans will remain similar to the "plans" to retire Mig-21s.
I bet Jaguar retirement will hold till Tejas mk2 enters service and replaces an equal number, starting from the older non upgraded models to later the newer ones.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Mig-21 crash rate is lower than ever now.. They people who are bitching don't actually know much on what they're bitching about.

My issue is more about the survivability of the pilot every time a plane goes down we do loose a pilot with it!
aircrafts crashes around the world but in many instances pilots are safe or just injured.
We all talk about the no.of fighter squadrons IAF should have but we also need capable & experienced pilots aswell...can’t keep losing pilots like that!

 

[Lonewolf]

Additional Mig29/Su-30MKI deal hasnt been signed yet, so its skeptical .
And pretty sure 3 Squadrons of Jaguars wont be retired anytime soon. They may "plan" to, but the plans will remain similar to the "plans" to retire Mig-21s.
I bet Jaguar retirement will hold till Tejas mk2 enters service and replaces an equal number, starting from the older non upgraded models to later the newer ones.

Yeah , tejas mk 1a +mk 1 are just for mig 21 replacement , for jaguar + mirage we need mk 2 atleast in 170+ number ,for mig 29 replacement we don't have any plan yet , mk 2 can replace but then order should be 240

 

[Willy3]

Yeah , tejas mk 1a +mk 1 are just for mig 21 replacement , for jaguar + mirage we need mk 2 atleast in 170+ number ,for mig 29 replacement we don't have any plan yet , mk 2 can replace but then order should be 240

I read about potential 250 orders of Tejas Mk2, it's destined to be our back bone from 2040 once it's mass inducted.

Btw, regarding squadron shortage, UAE want to retire it's Mirage2000-5 , Egypt also have some 20 something mirage 2000, in total we can acquire 5 squadron in very short time, those jets are safer in design and well proven. We can give them a good MLU and carry them on to 40s when they would be phased out by Tejas Mk2 s

 

[Lonewolf]

I read about potential 250 orders of Tejas Mk2, it's destined to be our back bone from 2040 once it's mass inducted.

Btw, regarding squadron shortage, UAE want to retire it's Mirage2000-5 , Egypt also have some 20 something mirage 2000, in total we can acquire 5 squadron in very short time, those jets are safer in design and well proven. We can give them a good MLU and carry them on to 40s when they would be phased out by Tejas Mk2 s

And do you know how much it cost for mirage mlu , check it out .

It will be like putting money of a tejas in mirage

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Nice comparison pic!

So in a way the LCA Navy Mk1 and the LCA Trainers may have better area ruling than the Tejas Mk1 single seaters, due to the hump introduced by the canopy and blending it with the center fuselage.

Another difference that became apparent is the 3 door supplemental air intake on the air intake side in the LCA Navy whereas the Tejas Mk1 AF version has a single door on the intake side.

In my opinion, canopy reshaping cannot improve area ruling. It can only better the aerodynamics by reducing drag. To improve area ruling , you need to increase the length of the Tejas so that cross-section expansion along the length can be reduced and area ruling can be bettered.

 

[FalconZero]

And Tejas Mk1A squadrons will start being raised from 2025 at rate of 1 squadron per year and all of them will be in Western sector only...

Okay so can you actually point the source about why that user said that production of Mk1a will start from 2025? Or you are saying that by 2025 HAL will achieve the speed of 16-20 aircrafts per year?

If it's the former case, then can't just IAF order at least 2 more sqdn of FOC Tejas mk1? They can later keep upgrading them to mk1a std. but the priority if it is to fill the gaps and retire those bisons.

But from what I know and understood, mk1a will start its production by 2023 atmost 2024, so they can almost have one year of free line, considering they have completed the delivery of Flankers too ( though not sure about those additional orders of Flankers )...

 

[Dark Sorrow]

HAL Tejas and Su-30MKI
Sharp contrast in physical size

 

[Willy3]

And do you know how much it cost for mirage mlu , check it out .

It will be like putting money of a tejas in mirage

That MLU deal for our mirages in 2013 was loot and according to some should be investigated but I am sure HAL and our industrial complex can do better job with mucu less price to those Mirages I am talking about earlier, anyway we aren't going for engine changes like big stuff.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

But from what I know and understood, mk1a will start its production by 2023 atmost 2024, so they can almost have one year of free line, considering they have completed the delivery of Flankers too ( though not sure about those additional orders of Flankers )...

Mk1a is already on fast track. It can't come any faster. We could build additional mk1 faster but iaf wants mk1a after 40 mk1.

another question is as Hal is developing naval tejas np5 from its own funds why could they developed mk1a from their funds as the specs were frozen 2years ago and it could have been left to just the matter of signing of contract so to start the production?

 

[Willy3]

another question is as Hal is developing naval tejas np5 from its own funds why could they developed mk1a from their funds as the specs were frozen 2years ago and it could have been left to just the matter of signing of contract so to start the production?

Probably too invested in HTT 40 AND hawk upgrade project

 

[IndianHawk]

Okay so can you actually point the source about why that user said that production of Mk1a will start from 2025? Or you are saying that by 2025 HAL will achieve the speed of 16-20 aircrafts per year?

If it's the former case, then can't just IAF order at least 2 more sqdn of FOC Tejas mk1? They can later keep upgrading them to mk1a std. but the priority if it is to fill the gaps and retire those bisons.

But from what I know and understood, mk1a will start its production by 2023 atmost 2024, so they can almost have one year of free line, considering they have completed the delivery of Flankers too ( though not sure about those additional orders of Flankers )...

3 yrs is standard delivery time for any new aircraft.
Mk1a contract was signed this year so delivery will start in 2024. So 1 st squadron will be ready only by 2025.
Mk1a production rate is stipulated to be 16 per annum from the beginning.

Airforce isn't ordering more mk1 as mk1a is just around the corner and IAF would rather wait 2-3 years than doing whole upgrade thing at significant cost and time loss. Even new mk1 will take time to form squadron.

 

[IndianHawk]

another question is as Hal is developing naval tejas np5 from its own funds why could they developed mk1a from their funds as the specs were frozen 2years ago and it could have been left to just the matter of signing of contract so to start the production?

They have developed mk1a through testing various lsp with aesa radar , obogs , ew pods etc.

But for actual series production you need jigs , assembly line , vendors , suppliers all ready and paid in advance to deliver equipment to final assembly.

All this takes 3 years across fighter jet industry.

 

[IndianHawk]

That MLU deal for our mirages in 2013 was loot and according to some should be investigated but I am sure HAL and our industrial complex can do better job with mucu less price to those Mirages I am talking about earlier, anyway we aren't going for engine changes like big stuff.

That upgrade was costly but then french stuff is costly. But it was worthwhile life of those mirages is improved by almost 20 years. They will serve till 2035 easily .