LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

WolfPack86

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Orders for 83 LCA Tejas Mark 1A jets likely before December
In the hype over Wednesday’s arrival of the first lot of five French-built Rafale fighter aircraft, it was easy to lose sight of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) ‘Tejas’ which, after years of development delays, is slowly entering squadron service.

What has become of the order for the 83 Tejas Mark 1A variants that the air force was to place with the public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) officials told indiatoday.in that the order is likely to be confirmed “before December 2020”. Earlier this year, after months of negotiations, HAL and the IAF finally agreed on a price tag of Rs 39,000 crore for the 83 aircraft (73 fighter jets and 10 two-seat trainer variants). HAL officials attributed the delay to several outstanding issues, particularly a number of queries related to ‘additional requirements through contract’. “All queries have now been answered and the case is under approval,” a HAL official said.

The next phase in the contract would be approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), India’s topmost national security decision making body. This will be followed by a formal inking of the contract between HAL and the IAF. Delivery of the Mark 1As will start within three years of the contract being signed and will conclude with all aircraft delivered in five years.


The IAF spent Rs 59,000 crore to buy the 36 Rafale fighter jets. While it greatly enhances the IAF’s combat potential and also contributes offsets, sourced from the Indian industry, to the tune of nearly Rs 30,000 crore, the indigenous Tejas will have a bigger force multiplier effect on an Indian industry reeling under the impact of the lockdown and economic downturn. More importantly, it is a huge step towards creating a multi-tiered defence industrial ecosytem.

Five major private sector players—Larsen & Toubro, VEM Technologies, Alpha Tocol, Tata Advanced Materials and Dynamatic Technologies--are manufacturing the fuselages, wings, tail fins and rudders of the LCAs. These are being assembled by HAL at its twin production lines in Bengaluru.

“A Rs 39,000 crore order will have a force multiplier effect of nearly seven or eight times on the economy--jobs will be created, work will be outsourced, there is going to be a tremendous downstream effect on Tier 2 and Tier 3 manufacturing in the high-tech defence aviation sector,” an HAL official said.

The IAF currently operates one squadron of the 16 ‘Mark 1’ baseline Tejas variants at its airbase in Sulur, Coimbatore. On May 27, the IAF operationalised the second squadron of the LCA Tejas. Number 18 squadron will get its entire 15 final operation configuration (FOC) aircraft by September 2021. These are part of an order for 40 LCAs that were placed in two tranches in 2006 and 2010. All deliveries will be completed in 2022.

HAL is building a third Tejas production line, to be set up this November, and this will roll out the two-seat trainer variants of the jet. The line will build a total of 18 LCA trainers that will commence deliveries from November 2021 onwards (8 are part of the 40 jets order, and 10 part of the 83 jets order).

Ater a 2017 presentation by then IAF chief Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa, the government had committed to buying 18 squadrons of the LCA and its variants—over 300 aircraft over the next 15 years. IAF officials say the LCA family fits into their plans to reduce existing diversity of fighter aircraft to just four types by 2035—the other three will be the Sukhois, Rafales and Mirage 2000s.
 

ARVION

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And the one of the most complex parts is its 'Delta Wing' made of composite materials and integrate over 2,000 parts. It takes more than 200 days to complete manufacturing of LCA's wings. The good news is, these wings are now being manufactured by Indian defence giant L&T.
 

Suhaan

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And the one of the most complex parts is its 'Delta Wing' made of composite materials and integrate over 2,000 parts. It takes more than 200 days to complete manufacturing of LCA's wings. The good news is, these wings are now being manufactured by Indian defence giant L&T.
L&T there,how do youknow that?
 

VIP

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It’s really very good comparative chart. But I understand that except LCA all other fighters would have flown with help of their respective real brothers (indigenous engine). I’m not discouraging, just invoking.
All of them have already established jet engine tech and still it took them same time.
 

Trololo

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Good opportunity for us to sign tripartite agreement for F414 engines and take firm orders for LCA Mk2 for VPAF, Thai AF, Indonesian AF, Philippines AF, Myanmar AF, and stitch together an anti China alliance.

Design and most subsystems will be Indian. IP of MWF will be Indian.


For other foreign subsystems for which clearance cannot come, there is always a Russian alternative. But I think these will be very minimal.



According to available info only engine will be major foreign component in MWF.


Its Data Links and formidable avionics will be Indian. If D-29 EW suite is anything to go by, DRDOs UEWS will be an excellent piece of kit. Probably in the same category as the Rafale. Here is where i see an opportunity:






If we can sell the LCA Mk2 to the VPAF, or any other country hostile to China (like Indonesia or Philippines), then we can also sell to them the following:



1> Astra Mk1 missile (110 km range)


2> Astra Mk2 missile (160km range)



3> Astra Mk3 SFDR missile (320 km range)


4> Astra IR close quarter combat missile (40km range)



5> SANT missile (20-30km anti tank missile)


6> SAAW anti airfield PGM (120+ km)


7> Rudram 1 anti awacs missile


8> Rudram 2 air to ground missile


9> Rudram 3 air to ground missile (SCALP class missile)


10> Brahmos NG missile (300 km max range under MTCR for exports)



11> Improved Sudarshan class of LGBs with kits for 250kg, 500kg, 1000kg, 1500kg, and 2000kg munitions. Can be configured to be in the class of the Paveway 2, Paveway 3, Spice, and Hammer munitions.


12> DRDO HSLD munition which can be used with the kits from point 11 above.


13> All upcoming Indian targeting and EW pods



14> Current OFB dumb munitions modeled on Russian dumb munitions.

15> Upcoming Indian loyal wingman type drones which whill significantly increase the capability of any aircraft it is paired with.


Once these airforces are locked in with the LCA Mk2, then it automatically creates a market for Indian munition and combat electronics sales. Most countries will prefer single source vendor for end to end solution (i.e India) in order to prevent all hotch-potch and avoid paying for integration costs of other weapons. For example, the Egyptian Rafales are ditto the French ones, whereas ours have India specific mods which are costly.

If these countries, however, want foreign weapons on their aircraft, they have the following to choose:

1> ASRAAM close combat missile from Europe.

2> Meteor missile (If permitted. I last heard they will allow meteor integration with an Indian radar)

3> Python 5 close combat missile from Israel (certified already)

4> Derby medium range missile (110 km class, already certified)

5> R-73 close combat missile from Russia (already certified)

6> R-77 medium range missile from Russia (possibly certified. not sure)

7> KAB series of Russian PGMs in the 250-1500kg class. (certified)

8> OFAB dumb russian munitions (certified)

9> Paveway 2 LGB kit (certified)

10> Griffin LGB kit (certified)

11> Kh-XX series of A2G and anti ship missiles (certified)


12> Spice kit

13> Hammer kit



All these are a TREMENDOUS list of options!! No other aircraft will give this kind of versatility as far as weapon systems are concerned!


Tejas Mk2 will be the only aircraft in the world which can easily integrate Indian, Russian, Israeli, and Western armaments. No other aircraft in the world will offer this diversity.


LCA Mk2 will also offer variety of targeting pods too

1> Upcoming Indian targeting pods

2> Israeli Litening (already integrated and most preferred)

3> French Talios

4> US Sniper pod (good possibility if sold to ME countries)

Also on offer will be missions training systems, pilot training, etc. Not to mention that any country who buys the LCA Mk2 will increase our strategic footprint there. The sale of MWF will pave the way to sell our under development AWACS aircraft too. And other electronics like radars and data links.

Good opportunity for us to make alliances and modernize some air forces at affordable prices. Just imagine a string of nations hostile to the Chinese and armed with a combination of MWFs, ORCAs, and a range of desi munitions. I think we should aggressively pursue this.
 

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Will Tejas Mk1A sport MAWS??
No..MAWS aren't envisaged for now.. how ever MWF will have it...

We haven't perfected MAWS yet.. nd sporting an uncooked maws would do more harm than good... Because passive ir maws have to be extremely refined to have very low false alarm.. nd most maws don't cover full spectrum of aircraft ( sans F-35 six sensor maws ) even rafale ddm ng 2 sensor maws has blind spot under it's wings..

Nd also maws are most suitable to counter passive ir missiles or low level launched sams .. which don't give active emissions nd can't be detected by RWRs of aircrafts...

PAF has no figher aircraft with IRST to mount a passive missile launch at bvr distance..thus a RWR would automatically give an alert to aircraft when it's locked in bvr ranges ...

However for end game MAWS would be eminent.. nd all future aircrafts nd upgrades will have it at some point of time
 

Bleh

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Will Tejas Mk1A sport MAWS??
No..MAWS aren't envisaged for now.. how ever MWF will have it...

We haven't perfected MAWS yet.. nd sporting an uncooked maws would do more harm than good... Because passive ir maws have to be extremely refined to have very low false alarm.. nd most maws don't cover full spectrum of aircraft ( sans F-35 six sensor maws ) even rafale ddm ng 2 sensor maws has blind spot under it's wings..
MAWS can only properly identify CCMs being launched from their plumes within 2km... but the missile will travel that much distance to quickly to actually do anything. Thus most modern MAWS have become redundant now that IRST can launch IR-missiles at ranges of more than 30 kilometre. Even without IRST in near future Pakis & Chinkies will both have a LOAL data-linked IRmissiles.

So, only way we can create a properly functioning MAWS is by both IR & UV based detectors facing at all angles that'll pick up any approching passive warhead.(Better than PDR based sensors where the radarwaves may reveal the aircraft itself & also can't accurately guide DIRCM.) Detection of UV is long & IR for short, but the system will be significantly expensive... Tradeoffs are a bitch.
 
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WolfPack86

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5 Rafale के बाद जल्द ही Indian Air Force को मिलेगा 83 Tejas Mk-1A
 

Frontrunner

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MAWS can only properly identify CCMs being launched from their plumes within 2km... but the missile will travel that much distance to quickly to actually do anything. Thus most modern MAWS have become redundant now that IRST can launch IR-missiles at ranges of more than 30 kilometre. Even without IRST in near future Pakis & Chinkies will both have a LOAL data-linked IRmissiles.

So, only way we can create a properly functioning MAWS is by both IR & UV based detectors facing at all angles that'll pick up any approching passive warhead.(Better than PDR based sensors where the radarwaves may reveal the aircraft itself & also can't accurately guide DIRCM.) Detection of UV is long & IR for short, but the system will be significantly expensive... Tradeoffs are a bitch.

LOAL datalink for ir missiles has to come from a source... Nd that source needs to be passive to be effective... With ir missile like mica ir, asraam being bvr... It can be guided by telemetry provided by host aircraft radar in LOAL mode..

However whenever the radar will be used to lock... It being actively emitting will alert the adversary's aircraft RWR.. thus adversary can simply break the lock by doing evasive manuvers..

However With inbuilt IRST ... It would he more efficient while launching a passive attack on adversary at bvr ranges employing IR missiles in loal mode with telemetry provided by IRST in passive mode.. without alerting enemy...

Pakis don't have this IRST capabilities with their f-16s or jf-17s.... Tho china may have it.. but their IRST capabilities can't be compared with what rafale have.
 

Bleh

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LOAL datalink for ir missiles has to come from a source... Nd that source needs to be passive to be effective...
Not necessarily. More than one way to skin the cat.
It can be fed radar detected location of the bandit by an AWACS or other jets, if buddy mode is available. Just to guide the missile in a general direction. Once within range, its own IR will take over.

So even without IRST, the bandit will have no clue it's being targeted by an IR-missile from BVR range... what I am trying to say is absence of inbuilt IRST in their jets can be overcome by other methods & modified algorithms.
 

Frontrunner

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Not necessarily. More than one way to skin the cat.
It can be fed radar detected location of the bandit by an AWACS or other jets, if buddy mode is available. Just to guide the missile in a general direction. Once within range, its own IR will take over.

So even without IRST, the bandit will have no clue it's being targeted by an IR-missile from BVR range... what I am trying to say is absence of inbuilt IRST in their jets can be overcome by other methods & modified algorithms.
Again AWACS have active emissions... so any targeting data provided by awacs or any other source aircraft will alert the adversary..

Various aircrafts now have ew suite to snoop around hostile missile- aircraft datalink... Even upgraded mirages has antenna around front it's nose to detect hostile datalinks.. nd rafale with active phased array jammers it can disrupt the missile-aircraft datalink... If ur datalink is compromised then u can't provide the required course correction to aams wrt to enemy position...

Active emissions can't be compared with passive IRST as no active emissions are truly passive.. a modern aircraft with true situational awareness nd ew will find it out that it is being actively targeted...

However even IRST is not fool proof... Nd is impacted by weather nd clouds cover... nd also IRST should have passive ranging capabilities at bvr ranges a la pirate IRST of typhoon..
 

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