LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[tsunami]

General characteristics

• Crew: 1 (single-seat) or 2 (dual-seat)
• Length: 14.93 m (49 ft 0 in)
• Wingspan: 9.44 m (31 ft 0 in)
• Height: 4.77 m (15 ft 8 in)
• Wing area: 24.43 m2 (263.0 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 12,700 kg (27,999 lb) [197]
• Fuel capacity: 2,330 kg (5,137 lb) internal fuel; 1 x 800 kg (1,764 lb) centre-line drop tank; 2 x 800 kg (1,764 lb) or 1,100 kg (2,425 lb) under-wing drop tanks
• Payload: 4,600 kg (10,100 lb) external stores
• Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93MA afterburning turbofan with digital electronic engine control (DEEC), 50.4 kN (11,300 lbf) thrust [198] dry, 85.6 kN (19,200 lbf) with afterburner

Performance

• Range: 2,500 km (1,600 mi, 1,300 nmi)
• Combat range: 1,352 km (840 mi, 730 nmi)
• Ferry range: 3,500 km (2,200 mi, 1,900 nmi) with 3 external drop tanks

Figures of JF-17 are as false as Gripen.

Just a basic calculation and you will understand it.

Empty weight: 6,586 kg
Fuel capacity: 2,330 kg
Max takeoff weight: 12,700 kg

Empty weight + Fuel = 8916 kg

Add additional 300 kg weight and your get 9.2 tons weight without weapons.

12.7 - 9.2 = 3.5 tons weapons where they to have 4.6 tons of weapon load?? Also JF-17 does not have enough internal fuel to reduce it to increase weapons. For 4.6 tons of weapons it have to fly with only 1230 kg fuel.

Now range... lol

If you have noticed Tejas's empty weight is less then JF-17 and internal fuel is higher. With that Tejas have range of 1800km. How exactly JF-17 is having 2500km range?? JF-17's it's fuel fraction is only above 25%. No fighter in the world have even 2200 km range with that low internal fuel.

Even with 3 external drop tanks it will not make 3500 km. Even Rafale with 32% internal fuel can make upto 3600 km with 3 external drop tanks.(And those are far bigger than one on JF-17).

And biggest scam of them all is combat radius. 1352 km
What they are going with in that combat Revolver??

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes, we need more Tejas Mk2 MWF, 123 mk1A tejas plus 200+ Tejas MWF should form around 20 of squadrons. Rest should be by AMCA, Rafale, ORCA, Su30mki. We need to phase out mig21, jaguar quickly.

Jags will only start retiring from 2024-25.
Even then 40 something jags which were built in 2000-2008 will serve till 2042 +.

 

[IndianHawk]

But what about ToT - Lets have a discussion on that
& local manufacturing?

For local manufacturing order needs to be above 100. 100+ rafale will cost 25 billion usd. Not gonna happen.

TOT will only for know how not know why. And instead of spending 25 billion on foreign jets we can make HAL and it's private supplier world class by investing 1-2 billion in automation and leading manufacturing technology .

Sometimes back I read in BRF that HAL replaced manual drilling in lca panels by automated drilling system which reduced both time and manpower.

" 7,200 holes to be drilled per set of wing! They bought a robotic drilling machine that brought down the cycle time from 30 days/20 people to 10 days/2 people. Accuracy also improved. Better cleanliness since composite debris is vacuumed off by the robot"

Above example is how tech improves by investment into indegenious systems.

Implement such changes across-the-board and you have an HAL almost as efficient as dassult.

 

[VIP]

Because Tejas has American GE F404 engines Mig21 was entirely Russian

Abe, we don't have such clause in deal of GE 404 with US. Even your beloved gripen uses the GE engines. Go figure.

 

[IndiaRising]

So without SU, Mirage, mig, subs,Sigs, boforce, Vikrammaditya, and so many other weaponry in last 30- 50 years, Do you think that you would be wrting your post from an independent nation exist today?

Yes money spent is too big, but what is opportunity costs ? have you considered it?

yes the mantra is to import till the end of eternity.

 

[WARREN SS]

yes the mantra is to import till the end of eternity.

Yes we have to not until are GDP come close support 250 billion $ budget and 14-15 trillion $ GDP
Even then its hard

Even China with 274 billion $ and 14 trillion $ GDP struggling

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

Does anybody have an idea when a contract for Mk1A will be signed? As it stands JF-17 is in fact superior to Tejas because IT IS IN PRODUCTION

 

[cannonfodder]

Does anybody have an idea when a contract for Mk1A will be signed? As it stands JF-17 is in fact superior to Tejas because IT IS IN PRODUCTION

Latest by December, 2020 if babus agree and move files accordingly. IMHO it will be march 2021 given the dismal working and past experience.

Both fighters are in production. Tejas production is crawling inspite of being better product due to our less developed manufacturing ecosystem in field & sad attitude.

 

[aerokan]

Does anybody have an idea when a contract for Mk1A will be signed? As it stands JF-17 is in fact superior to Tejas because IT IS IN PRODUCTION

It depends on the year. 2 months in 2019, 5 months in 2020 by December.

 

[Akula]

It depends on the year. 2 months in 2019, 5 months in 2020 by December.

I fear IAF will again postponed the contract till Aero India 2021.

 

[Lancer]

With how long they're taking to sign the contract, the number should be kicked up from 83 to around 123, if not even more.

 

[airtel]

When are we going to see the first prototype of Tejas Mk1A??

They are not planning to make prototype , They will start limited series production directly .

 

[cannonfodder]

With how long they're taking to sign the contract, the number should be kicked up from 83 to around 123, if not even more.

No visible will power for it: Neither in HAL, MoD (govt), IAF or leadership. just too much expectations without appetite for resource allocation needed for it (in both us jingos and authorities as well).

 

[aerokan]

So without SU, Mirage, mig, subs,Sigs, boforce, Vikrammaditya, and so many other weaponry in last 30- 50 years, Do you think that you would be wrting your post from an independent nation exist today?

Yes money spent is too big, but what is opportunity costs ? have you considered it?

Yes.. we would have flown marut with orpheus engines then.

We would have developed a space program even against all sanctions and sabotage.. ohh wait.. we actually did that!!
We would have developed our own guns and would have been a truly atma nirbhar nation with defense exports. Our babus would have worked with knife on their necks and our true strength of jugaad would have come out sooner. Liberalization (LPG) would have happened earlier than Narasimha rao regime. All those very good world class industries where we had the lead would not have eroded into dependence on foreign countries.

Incase you doubt the possibility of that happening.. we had green revolution, white revolution etc after we were pushed to a corner. You and me might have been billionaires.. who knows??

 

[Suryavanshi]

Somehow the last few posts have been very misleading and diverting from a actual discussion.

Sub system that are most likley to be integrated on Tejas in the future.

Uttam AESA
Anywhere between 2023 to 2025 hopefully.

Spoiler

Brahmos NG 2025 to 2030.

Spoiler

Astra Mk 1
About any time now taxi trials have been completed and ir will on every tejas before 2023

IAF Plans To Induct Indigenous ‘Astra’ Missiles In Light Combat Aircrafts As DRDO Completes Trials

IAF plans to integrate Astra missile into the Su30MKI fighters and other foreign-origin combat aircraft

www.google.com

Astra mk 2

If astra mk 1 will he inducted then no question for Mk 2 my guess between 2025 to 2030.
In the future missile will be tested on tejas and su 30 simultaneously.

R73 and Derby missile.
Already tested




Other possible integrations.

SAAW.
NGRAM

 

[Suryavanshi]

Tejas program has picked up pace thanks to Swargiya Manohar Parrikar(Om Shanti), the rate of tetsing and integrations has improved significantly.
Whatever short coming remains is due to disconnect between MOD, MIC and Air force.
Once all three of them sit down and see this through we can gallop ahead.

16 tejas per year should be the target.
Pakis have a Induction rate of 18 per year which they can boost upto 22 as said by the program director himself.

Jf 17 block 3 will be more than a match for MK 1 and possibly MK 1a.
There is no use living in delusion, China will make sure Pakis receive the best of their equipment ro heckle us.

There are talks for integration of AESA on block 3 and Overall upgrade Of EW suite.

Block 2 and Block 3 will have IFR probe.

Current JF 17 Inventory

Block 1= 50
Block 2= 62
Block 2 double seater= 8
Blcok 3= ?

Overall 120+ aircraft.

Meanwhile no of Tejas built= 33.

 

[patriots]

Tejas program has picked up pace thanks to Swargiya Manohar Parrikar(Om Shanti), the rate of tetsing and integrations has improved significantly.
Whatever short coming remains is due to disconnect between MOD, MIC and Air force.
Once all three of them sit down and see this through we can gallop ahead.

16 tejas per year should be the target.
Pakis have a Induction rate of 18 per year which they can boost upto 22 as said by the program director himself.

Jf 17 block 3 will be more than a match for MK 1 and possibly MK 1a.
There is no use living in delusion, China will make sure Pakis receive the best of their equipment ro heckle us.

There are talks for integration of AESA on block 3 and Overall upgrade Of EW suite.

Block 2 and Block 3 will have IFR probe.

Current JF 17 Inventory

Block 1= 50
Block 2= 62
Block 2 double seater= 8
Blcok 3= ?

Overall 120+ aircraft.

Meanwhile no of Tejas built= 33.

Bro please read my previous reply on Tejas vs jf17
Bdw how jf17 will be the best...........
It will have a Chinese air cooled aesa where Tejas wil have isarel aesa
Though for now the jf nos are more ..but the jf17 blk 1 s are inferior to Tejas ioc

 

[wraith96]

If we can get MWF right by 2027 gripen will be officially dead after that.

Will the Ladakh be with us till then?
Chinese will patiently wait for us to catch up? 468 J10s already in service..

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Abe, we don't have such clause in deal of GE 404 with US. Even your beloved gripen uses the GE engines. Go figure.

Tejas is delayed also because of American sanctions they stopped supplying engines after 1998 nuclear tests

 

[tsunami]

Will the Ladakh be with us till then?
Chinese will patiently wait for us to catch up? 468 J10s already in service..

Don't you worry if Chinese make any mistake Aksai Chin will be with us in 2 months. But that's the topic for other thread.