LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Hydra3]

Do growlers are cleared for sale ?
Anyway F18 isn’t cheap at all considering how old this machine is and it’s futu prospects. It will be another Jaguar type of aircraft for India, obsolete at the time of induction. Why waste money when F35 is right next door.
Considering global recession it’s hard to induct such costly machines just for such short time. Better order few more squadrons of Mig 29 and plan for F35 or Something in-house.

Regarding Naval Choppers Romeo is damn expensive machine no doubt very potent and kind of multi role. That said NH 90 is newer design with better potential for future development, more affordable and backed by Airbus. Though I agree it’s still in developmental phase and may encounter a lot of technical glitches like F35.

And if we talk about affordability for IN, Ka-27 beats all hands down. Also IN is already operating it and it’s very compact system can be deployed on a wide variety of ships.

Also we have Lynx and Super Lynx cheaper than Romeo

I didn't know, perhaps no one outside the negotiation guys will cimes to know about the offer. But australia is operating growlers.

 

[Karthi]

HAL SPORT .

 

[Flying Dagger]

By that Logic Every Figure are is Kind from source or assumed Figures
Real RCS of military planes are Classified

DO you Understand The Purpose of DRFM's And EW on air craft ???Its there Job To Evade Missiles

I rest My Case I am Talking to Another Fanboi Talking Fanboi gibbrish

By Boi Fighter Planes Are 20 times costlier than Missile

Here A video to Which Can explain it to you How NEZ Calculated In Noob terms Hope you get It

You don't have a source for your " Gibberish" and when caught red handed.. came up with another nonsense .

You directly copy paste ans from Quora without giving credit . That tells how much knowledge you have on subject. Your video didn't say anything new on NEZ what I haven't posted in prev post if you would have read. Throw your non sense filled post at someone else onwards.

 

[Hydra3]

Rafale F3R is more advanced than Growlers even in EW role.

No, never. First of all there huge difference is there between an aircraft with EW suits with an EW attack aircraft.
I di agree that rafale is an amazing platform, & we have ordered it. That doesn't mean that it is the best aircraft in the world.
Growler is a dedicated EW attack aircraft, it hoises internal jamming pods aswell as external jamming pods. EA18 even undergine special wirings to cope up with the power consumption of added EW pods & to escape from the wrath of its own jamming pods.EW jamming works base on signal processing, & more importantly the shear power of jamming signals it produced in a wife spectrum.
Rafale may beat EA18 on aerobatics but definitely inferior on electronic warfare.
Propaganda of rafale f3 beats growler on EW is like if someone says su30mki with bars will beat phalcon on awacs role.

 

[Immanuel]

Lol... You think that they aren't blackmailing us..! Iran oil supply has been replaced by USA which is way costly for us. That's just one there are many more ... Interfering in our internal matters.. you haven't seen any blackmailing by Russia/USA yet.? Indigenous is the solution and yes our products will not be world class in our first attempt but it will get better over time..
Our defence budget can't afford overexpensive western equipments...
Regarding your point about f18 and Rafale - read bs dhanoa sir statements about f16 latest variants and f18.. according to him they are not even in the same league.. Growler will definitely be an asset but you can make any aircraft in growler version. Chinese have there own , so does Russian ... We have some quite good electronic warfare equipment ourself ..

Comparing Block 2 SH to Rafale F3 is indeed is not the same. IAF is happy with the Rafale, good for them. For IN the Block 3 SH is better while being a beast in a league of it's own as far Naval aircraft are concerned. Iran oil supply is replaced by Saudi which is actually cheaper, they have amongst lowest crude exploitation costs, texas cruse is also priced lower. We are buying more LNG from the US. We shouldn't be buying shit from Iran anyways (does one really think continued bhai bhai relations with Iran is a good thing? All the while they are an open enemy to Israel another close ally) Until they give up their pipe dream of wiping out Israel, they will always remain an at-risk country. There won't be any let-up on the sanctions on them till they fully de-nuke, any miscalculation on their part will bring the wrath of the Israeli's, Saudis, US and others in the region. Keep unwahsed abduls at a good distance.

While indigenous route is good one, it takes Donkey's years, our services half the time don't know what they want and our babudom is slower to react than the speed of a turtle fucking.

So far the services are very happy with the P-8I, C-130J, C-17s, Apaches, Chinooks, etc. More deals are on the table and expect more purchases

 

[Flying Dagger]

Rafale F3R is more advanced than Growlers even in EW role.

Nope they aren't

Do growlers are cleared for sale ?
Anyway F18 isn’t cheap at all considering how old this machine is and it’s futu prospects. It will be another Jaguar type of aircraft for India, obsolete at the time of induction. Why waste money when F35 is right next door.
Considering global recession it’s hard to induct such costly machines just for such short time. Better order few more squadrons of Mig 29 and plan for F35 or Something in-house.

Regarding Naval Choppers Romeo is damn expensive machine no doubt very potent and kind of multi role. That said NH 90 is newer design with better potential for future development, more affordable and backed by Airbus. Though I agree it’s still in developmental phase and may encounter a lot of technical glitches like F35.

And if we talk about affordability for IN, Ka-27 beats all hands down. Also IN is already operating it and it’s very compact system can be deployed on a wide variety of ships.

Also we have Lynx and Super Lynx cheaper than Romeo

F 35 is not on offer. Russian Helos are outdated not cheap .

Romeo is best one out there.. NH 90 is good but not Romeo what's the cost difference in between them?

The wiki says 10 mn difference (reference is given)

Also Romeo strengthen the relationship building between USA and India in the IOR too.

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2018/03/15/qatar-signs-37-billion-deal-for-nh90-helicopters/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...a-for-usd-2-4-bn/amp_articleshow/68698990.cms

 

[WARREN SS]

You don't have a source for your " Gibberish" and when caught red handed.. came up with another nonsense .

You directly copy paste ans from Quora without giving credit . That tells how much knowledge you have on subject. Your video didn't say anything new on NEZ what I haven't posted in prev post if you would have read. Throw your non sense filled post at someone else onwards.

A you are a Noob saying Shit

All RCS figures are Assumed figures No Military gives Actual classified RCS of fighters Planes Which are guarded secrets

LOL Caught Me at what .The content was opensource. By a Expert in Field Whatever the Source was I am not giving exams And Even If its copy paste the Expert Quoted Technical Facts which Bounce off your mind ??? you Behaving like teenager

You Neither Know how Performance Kinematics of missile Works

Nether You understand How EW And DRFM Works With MAWs When hostile Missile is coming towards you When each micro seconds are important to out Maneuver or Jamming

How chaff's And Flares work in this regard

 

[Immanuel]

Do growlers are cleared for sale ?
Anyway F18 isn’t cheap at all considering how old this machine is and it’s futu prospects. It will be another Jaguar type of aircraft for India, obsolete at the time of induction. Why waste money when F35 is right next door.
Considering global recession it’s hard to induct such costly machines just for such short time. Better order few more squadrons of Mig 29 and plan for F35 or Something in-house.

Regarding Naval Choppers Romeo is damn expensive machine no doubt very potent and kind of multi role. That said NH 90 is newer design with better potential for future development, more affordable and backed by Airbus. Though I agree it’s still in developmental phase and may encounter a lot of technical glitches like F35.

And if we talk about affordability for IN, Ka-27 beats all hands down. Also IN is already operating it and it’s very compact system can be deployed on a wide variety of ships.

Also we have Lynx and Super Lynx cheaper than Romeo

Except the NH-90 failed trails in India, so there goes. The S-70B was the clear winner. Romeo is just a beefed up version of it. NH-90 has plenty of issues and just isn't as good.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2012/07/scrappy-indian-navy-copter-bid-nears.html

The Block 3 SH has over 78 orders in the USN. 28 for Kuwait plus they will perform MLU on Block 2 to Block 3 for over 350 Block 2s in USN service, this means the line in the US will remain open till 2033. Also the Block SH is the lead contender for Gemrna AF Tornado replacement (around 80), there is a good chance the Super hornet wins the deal. Firstly because it's significantly cheaper even in the Block 3 version to the gold plated EF, It brings more great ability today including being nuke certified, a wide set of weapons already integrated, is a proven SEAD/DEAD aircraft and has much lower operational costs. The German AF can barely manage the costs of the EF. Plus there is a good amount of pressure from Trump admin to buy American and cut trade deficit.

Let's see how it works out.

 

[AbRaj]

Nope they aren't



F 35 is not on offer. Russian Helos are outdated not cheap .

Romeo is best one out there.. NH 90 is good but not Romeo what's the cost difference in between them?

The wiki says 10 mn difference (reference is given)

Also Romeo strengthen the relationship building between USA and India in the IOR too.

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2018/03/15/qatar-signs-37-billion-deal-for-nh90-helicopters/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...a-for-usd-2-4-bn/amp_articleshow/68698990.cms

Neither is Growler.
Talking about updated ones. They are fairly potent. Ask any naval aviator.

Romeo is better right now but getting older while NH90 is most modern ASWH.
We will go bankrupt if we try to “strengthen” such kind of seller-buyer relationship.

 

[AbRaj]

Except the NH-90 failed trails in India, so there goes. The S-70B was the clear winner. Romeo is just a beefed up version of it. NH-90 has plenty of issues and just isn't as good.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2012/07/scrappy-indian-navy-copter-bid-nears.html

The Block 3 SH has over 78 orders in the USN. 28 for Kuwait plus they will perform MLU on Block 2 to Block 3 for over 350 Block 2s in USN service, this means the line in the US will remain open till 2033. Also the Block SH is the lead contender for Gemrna AF Tornado replacement (around 80), there is a good chance the Super hornet wins the deal. Firstly because it's significantly cheaper even in the Block 3 version to the gold plated EF, It brings more great ability today including being nuke certified, a wide set of weapons already integrated, is a proven SEAD/DEAD aircraft and has much lower operational costs. The German AF can barely manage the costs of the EF. Plus there is a good amount of pressure from Trump admin to buy American and cut trade deficit.

Let's see how it works out.

We are not exactly floating in cash right now.

It’s useless to procure this costly machine just for one ACC.
It’s not certified for Ski jump ( neither is Rafale) mig 29 is
Nevy certainly don’t like to create parallel supply chains for few dozen aircraft’s of different brand. They are not that cash rich.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Neither is Growler.
Talking about updated ones. They are fairly potent. Ask any naval aviator.

Romeo is better right now but getting older while NH90 is most modern ASWH.
We will go bankrupt if we try to “strengthen” such kind of seller-buyer relationship.

Growler is on offer.. a lite version of it .

And a Rafale F3 ain't a electronic warfare machine like Growler is which is specifically modified for the purpose . Just check the specs and then come back on it.

Which any naval operator you want me to ask anyway ?

NH 90 was part of the evaluation and it failed . Now that's what Indian Navy thinks of it.

Romeo is gud but what ?

Regarding cost I have already shared links with you NH 90 is as costly as Romeo and inferior.

Now why would we go bankrupt when we buy stuff from USA with which we have a trade imbalance which they are pressuring us to cover and they are providing us a good deal.

And we have been buying weapons bases on relation with other country nothing new in it.

 

[Flying Dagger]

We are not exactly floating in cash right now.

It’s useless to procure this costly machine just for one ACC.
It’s not certified for Ski jump ( neither is Rafale) mig 29 is
Nevy certainly don’t like to create parallel supply chains for few dozen aircraft’s of different brand. They are not that cash rich.

So Mig 29k is your choice for Navy ? Bravo... 21 topo ki Salaami.

Cost wise SH will be cheaper over its life time. With same engine as Tejas/AMCA line of jets and commonality. Though we aren't going to buy any I guess.

Mig 29 k will be over with Adm Gorshkov.

 

[IndianHawk]

What about additional Mig 29K. We now have only 42 out of the 45 Mig 29K ordered in service. And the serviceability of these jets is not that great.
INS Viky and Vikrant are capable of handling 26 Mig 29K each along with 10 helicopters.

26 mig is max capacity . In general probably 16-18 will be fielded on each with 6 in reserve. Few nlca might also be Fielded to gain operation expertise for domestic jet development.

 

[IndianHawk]

TEDBF has no takers in the IAF/IN. To spend time, effort and money on a silly pipe dream

That is blatantly false since it is the Indian Navy which forced ADA to change nlca mk2 design to tedbf.

India might not go for super carrier but we will always operate multiple carriers in future as our economy will only keep growing. So a domestic naval jet is a necessity .

If it was a pipe dream navy would never invest it's meager budget on nlca development. Rafale m was always available so is mig29k and f18.

That navy funded almost a billion dollars into nlca program and recently insisted on tedbf over nlca mk2 is testimony to how serious navy is about indeginous naval jet. Navy is aware is we don't develope tedbf today then we won't be able to develop naval amca tommorow . And that means perpetual dependency of foreign jets. Navy knows naval amca will have to be very different from amca and will take more time to develop. That is why navy wants to develop tedbf in the meantime and gain operational expertise with domestic tech before moving to naval amca.

 

[AbRaj]

So Mig 29k is your choice for Navy ? Bravo... 21 topo ki Salaami.

Cost wise SH will be cheaper over its life time. With same engine as Tejas/AMCA line of jets and commonality. Though we aren't going to buy any I guess.

Mig 29 k will be over with Adm Gorshkov.

Give salami to Indian nevy bro. They are the one who chose the Old soviet era ACC and Mig 29 for it. I’m fucking nobody.
I’m am amused that you want to buy fighter jets like groceries in local kirana shop .:biggrin2:
200 gm Mig 29
50 gm F18
Aur F35 bhi taste karna hai. Thoda sa

 

[IndianHawk]

Think logically people IN is never going to have dozen of supercarriers that justifies having a dedicated twin engine fighter project.TEDBF/ORCA will cost easily over 5 BILLION USD for procurement and development and all.That money is better utilised purchasing ADVANCED SUPER HORNETS with a sprinkle of GROWLERS.And the procurement might not even cost us 5 billion USD.The cost at which USN is procuring Hornets is dirt cheap(less than 60 million per jet).

IN will always operate multiple carriers . Third carrier will come even if a bit late. And if Chinese are going to build more carrier India will follow suit.

Even if they are mid size (40-60k) carriers still 3 IN carriers will share 60-70 birds among them plus some for reserve some for training and some for islands deployment. Remember tedbf will replace all mig29k too. So there are already 100birds required plus some exports.

F18 procurement for 57 jets jets will run into 10 billion dollars plus. They will need modifications for ski jump operation plus to fit the lift of Indian carriers that will cost in billions. Then support package will cost into more billions for Boeing (which btw could go bankrupt unless us govt saves it) .

Tedbf is a bargain at 5 billion + 2 billion for support package in comparison as all the money will flow in desh except for engine. And it will pave the way for naval amca.

And whats the guarantee that the TEDBF will meet all the development and production timelines(which are already ridiculously tight)

Same question can be asked about mwf or amca.
But the fact is that all components for Tedbf are already ready or in development. Engine is already there. Radar will be uttam , ew suite will be same with mwf along with digital rwr / spj/ maws. Display , sensor fusion will be similar to mwf. Weaponary will be similar.

All these similarities will not only save a lot of time but also cost as uttam will also be build for mwf and amca + tedbf so 200+150+150= 500 uttam at the least. Same with all other components they will become cheaper with scale.

That is the whole logic of tedbf and orca to build in parallel with lca/mwf and amca. This will not only mature India aerospace industry but will build huge internal market chain for almost 750 jets.
( 123 lca mk1/mk1a which will be upgraded mid life+ 200 mwf + 150 amca possible more later+ 150 tedbf+ 100 orca ). That will bring economy of scales for most components including engine maintenance and overhaul of f414 and later k9/k10.

Whats the point of developing a 4th gen or 4++ category aircraft into 2030s when whole world will transition into 5++ or some countries(US/UK/France-Germany) into the 6th gen aircraft age.TEDBF will be at a terrible disadvantage.And it will serve well into 2060s and god knows what will be the threat matrix then.We need to make long term choices.

6th gen is not even defined yet. All concepts of 6th gen are actually 5th gen++.

The need for tedbf is because amca is air Force varient. Navy wanted to develop naval amca first and then convert it into amca for airforce. But iaf didn't agree as it wants amca fast .

Navy knows building a naval jet from airforce varient is rarely successful. So it knows naval amca will have to be build from scratch and will take much longer ( by 2045-50) so in the meantime it is going for tedbf which it believes will come faster for the reasons I explained above all components are there. And it will be cheaper to own and maintain (no dollars required) . And it will be the step forward towards naval amca. Hence it is coming. US Navy will keep operating f18 along with f35 till 2070. So IN can also deploy tedbf with naval amca and naval aura in future.

 

[AbRaj]

So Mig 29k is your choice for Navy ? Bravo... 21 topo ki Salaami.

Cost wise SH will be cheaper over its life time. With same engine as Tejas/AMCA line of jets and commonality. Though we aren't going to buy any I guess.

Mig 29 k will be over with Adm Gorshkov.

IAC1 is anyway very similar to Vikramaditya.
So it’s common sense.

 

[Anathema]

Growler is a different beast we don't have anything close to it..

We have Growlerski ..extremely potent. Good enough for our western neighbors.

 

[AbRaj]

We have Growlerski ..extremely potent. Good enough for our western neighbors.

Zabardasti Bo..........ski:bounce:

 

[abhay rajput]

Growler is on offer.. a lite version of it .

And a Rafale F3 ain't a electronic warfare machine like Growler is which is specifically modified for the purpose . Just check the specs and then come back on it.

Which any naval operator you want me to ask anyway ?

NH 90 was part of the evaluation and it failed . Now that's what Indian Navy thinks of it.

Romeo is gud but what ?

Regarding cost I have already shared links with you NH 90 is as costly as Romeo and inferior.

Now why would we go bankrupt when we buy stuff from USA with which we have a trade imbalance which they are pressuring us to cover and they are providing us a good deal.

And we have been buying weapons bases on relation with other country nothing new in it.

What about in A2A role for growlers..?