Kolkata Class Destroyers Update

[The enlightened]

PS- From what i understand from Vishakapatnam's order book, they ordered 2 x 8 VLS for BrahMos and 16 x 3 VLS for Barak 8ER. That means 48 SAMs.

What 'Order book'??????????????????

 

[rohit b3]

What 'Order book'??????????????????

Just look under the Project 15B discussion . They have a link of the order book i.e all the subsytems they ordered.

 

[Anikastha]

To all our great pessimistic Indians.
Kolkata Class is undoubtedly the most balanced and advanced Destroyer on the planet right now.
The only reason is falls slightly short of the Chinese Type052D and S.Korean Sejong the Great is cause of its current limited number of SAMs.

Otherwise in terms of Technology, China's YJ-18/C-103 is no match for the BrahMos. China's HQ9 SAM is far inferior to India's Barak 8. And Kolkata's ASW capability with the HUMSA-NG and ATLAS Sonars are unmatched.
However, due to Kolkata's lesser number of SAMs, Type052D gets a slight edge in the overall ranking.

Here's a comparision - http://defencyclopedia.com/2014/09/...s-kolkata-class-vs-chinas-type-52d-destroyer/

Talking about Sejong the Great , its totally a different class of Destroyer. Its over 11,000 tons and the most heavily armed Destroyer in the World.
However again, its Weapons and Sensors are not as advanced as the Kolkata in many fields. But again, overall personally, i rate the Sejong as the best in the World right now, followed by the Type052D and then Kolkata.

US,China and India are currently the Top Naval Ship builders in the World right now.

With the commissioning of the Vishakapatnam Class , followed by China's Type055 ..Sejong will fall behind.
The Destroyer list will be ruled by US(Zumwalt,Arleigh Burke) , China(Typ055 ,Type052D) and India (Vishakapatnam and Kolkata)

PS- From what i understand from Vishakapatnam's order book, they ordered 2 x 8 VLS for BrahMos and 16 x 3 VLS for Barak 8ER. That means 48 SAMs.

Hope Ins Visakhapatnam class delivers similiar punch power.

 

[The enlightened]

Just look under the Project 15B discussion . They have a link of the order book i.e all the subsytems they ordered.

I can't go through 100's of pages. Surely you remember some keywords that will turn up in Google Search.

 

[Punya Pratap]

@Punya Pratap Kolkata class is not under-armed.

• The present 32 VLS for SAMs are enough and there is a provision for adding 32 more when needed. It is for future proofing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_but_not_with
• Chinese require more shorter range missiles and CIWS but Barak-8 fulfills that role too.

@blueblood, if you read my closing lines than the solution of the problem is suggested by me. The next big thrust for R&D in Naval Design Bureau & DRDO should be to design a UVLS!! Then there wont be any shortages

 

[cobra commando]

Snapshots from Gateway of India: INS Chennai & INS Viraat

 

[rohit b3]

I can't go through 100's of pages. Surely you remember some keywords that will turn up in Google Search.

Google "Project 15B Indiandefenceforum" It will link you to the Project 15B thread of Indiandefenceforum. (It hasnt been active for a while). Look in the second page for "Tender for the construction of P-15B model"

 

[blueblood]

@blueblood, if you read my closing lines than the solution of the problem is suggested by me. The next big thrust for R&D in Naval Design Bureau & DRDO should be to design a UVLS!! Then there wont be any shortages

I read that but my answer was to the point you raised that Kolkata is underpowered.

Anyways, UVLS is sure as hell needed.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

what kind of VLS do we use on kolkata

 

[The enlightened]

what kind of VLS do we use on kolkata

Russian UVLM and Barak-8's own special VLS.

 

[cobra commando]

From the last week of October, the crew on board India's largest self- made warship, INS Kolkata, has been busier. Moving up and down along the western seaboard in the not-so-choppy waters of the Arabian sea, it is, after all, a moment which has been awaited for years. If it pays off, Indian naval ships will acquire and deploy technology which, in the words of a senior naval officer, is 'as good as it gets.' Top sources within the Ministry of Defence (MoD) have confirmed that within this month, the Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) - a joint development project between India's Defence Research and Development organisation (DRDO) and Israel's Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) - will be fitted, integrated and put to test on board destroyer Kolkata. The actual firing will take place, "if not this month then before the end of next month," according to a senior officer. The first test will be followed by a series of firings, spread over weeks, possibly months, before finalisation. Induction is to take place by next year, if all goes well. The LRSAM is nothing like anything the Indian Navy (IN) has operated so far. A generational shift over the in-use Barak 1 missile system which has been fitted on a host of naval ships, including aircraft carrier INS Viraat, the LRSAM guarantees protection to a ship from an aircraft or even a sea-skimming cruise missile. In doing so, it can detect and take on threats at distances up to 80km and even at a range as close as 500m. Meanwhile, Barak 1 with its range up to 9km has enthused the navy by its efficiency leading the men in white to eagerly await the LRSAM.


Read more:
INS Kolkata readies to test fire top-of- the-range air defence missile

 

[pmaitra]

LRSAM blasting off from Indian destroyer INS Kolkata - Full Video of Barak-8 Tested from INS Kolkata

 

[Navneet Kundu]

LRSAM blasting off from Indian destroyer INS Kolkata

Any news on what % of the whole system (Radar-Missile-Software) is indegenous in this Indo-Israeli partnership?

 

[pmaitra]

Any news on what % of the whole system (Radar-Missile-Software) is indegenous in this Indo-Israeli partnership?

Unfortunately, I do not have any information on that.

 

[Navneet Kundu]

@pmaitra The reason I asked is because the Israelis have a shoddy history with weapons development contracts. Before the Iranian revolution, Israel was good friends with the previous Shah regime, they even had joint missile development contracts with them, exactly the kind they have with us now. I wont get into the details but the Israelis took Iran's cash, gave them old tech, left Iran vulnerable and basically cheated them in every way possible. We must not get complacent; In international affairs, no one is a friend.

PS : There's another good news. Our Kaveri engine passed a certification test just yesterday. Parrikar was present for the function. It's a 25kN engine, which will probably be used in unmanned drone AURA, and definitely used in gas-turbine powered ships and even to power trains.

Link : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...for-trainer-aircraft/articleshow/50173767.cms

 

[bose]

@pmaitra The reason I asked is because the Israelis have a shoddy history with weapons development contracts. Before the Iranian revolution, Israel was good friends with the previous Shah regime, they even had joint missile development contracts with them, exactly the kind they have with us now. I wont get into the details but the Israelis took Iran's cash, gave them old tech, left Iran vulnerable and basically cheated them in every way possible. We must not get complacent; In international affairs, no one is a friend.

PS : There's another good news. Our Kaveri engine passed a certification test just yesterday. Parrikar was present for the function. It's a 25kN engine, which will probably be used in unmanned drone AURA, and definitely used in gas-turbine powered ships and even to power trains.

Link : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/boost-for-make-in-india-hals-25-kn-aero-engine-completes-inaugural-run-can-be-used-for-trainer-aircraft/articleshow/50173767.cms

Where did in the report that mention that Kaveri has passed the certification ? Or I am reading wrong...

 

[Navneet Kundu]

Where did in the report that mention that Kaveri has passed the certification ? Or I am reading wrong...

Sorry, my mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. It is Aero turboshaft engine, not Kaveri engine.

Kaveri is a gas turbine engine project which is separate from Aero turboshaft helicopter engine. I apologize to all forum members for creating confusion.

Anyway, Kaveri is being used for other applications, I say that with appropriate citations.

Railways keen on using Kaveri engines developed by DRDO: Parliamentary Committee
http://articles.economictimes.india...ngine-gas-turbine-research-establishment-gtre

Kaveri for AURA drone :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_AURA
http://www.indianexponent.com/2014/07/aura-india-first-unmanned-stealth-bomber-revealed.html

Kaveri for ships :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTRE_GTX-35VS_Kaveri

Breakthrough for GTRE scientists – develop marine version of the Kaveri engine news [17 July 2008]

Bangalore-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment, part of the chain of laboratories operating under the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), has achieved a significant breakthrough by developing a modified marine version of the Kaveri engine, which it has been developing for the country's Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme.

The marine version is a spin-off, which is capable of generating shaft power for Indian naval ships. Using the Kaveri engine core, GTRE scientists have added low pressure compressor and turbine as a gas generator and designed a free power turbine to generate shaft power.

The Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine (KMGT), as it has been named, has been transported to the naval dockyard at Vishakhapatnam and installed on the marine gas turbine test-bed. This is an Indian Navy facility, capable of testing gas turbines of up to 25 MW of shaft power through a reduction gearbox and a water brake dynamometer.

The Indian Navy has been involved in the development of the engine and has participated in the test phase.

The engine has been tested to its potential of 12 MW at ISA SL 35°C condition, which is the requirement of the Indian Navy to propel the Rajput class of ships. The engine has also been demonstrated before the prime minister, Dr Manmohan Singh.

With this development, India becomes self-reliant in the technology of gas turbines for ship propulsion, and puts the country in the same league of nations as the USA, Russia, UK and Ukraine, who posses the capability to design and manufacture marine gas turbine engines.

Link : http://www.domain-b.com/defence/def_prod/20080717_kaveri_engine.html

So, if it is being used in all these applications, it means it has passed certification.

 

[airtel]

@navneeet kundu , you can not be friend with someone who wants to kill you ,Iran is supporter of hazbola & hamas both shia as well as sunni want to kill ( or convert ) non-muslims ......................The main reason of war between Muslims & Jews ( & Christians ) is Jerusalem , they are fighting for it ,initially muslims used to pray in the direction of Jerusalem , but later it changed towards mecca , Jerusalem is very important for Abrahamic religions .................but not for us , there is no war between Jews & Hindus , Sikhs , Buddhists etc , we dont want to capture Jerusalem ............. so we can trust them ( and vise versa ) ...............................

why Israel is helping India ?? well Israel gets billions of dollars as American aid , and they get modern American weapons free of cost , so they dont need to invent weapons , but they still invent weapons because this American aid as well as weapon supply can be stopped in the future and they will be vulnerable in the absence of modern weapon technology , so they are inventing weapons & India is paying for it ( because we dont have any knowledge about it & these technologies are secret ) ....................we both need each other , this is how we got Elta radars , they did not asked for development cost of such advanced AESA radar , even America did not give its AESA radars to Britain ..................lets accept it we have to learn first , and we are learning from Israel , USA , Russia ,France etc .................

 

[Navneet Kundu]

@airtel I never professed friendship with Iran. There is a separate Shia-Sunni conflict thread where a discussion is going on, you can check that : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/shia-sunni-conflict.74892/

As to your second paragraph, it is full of factual inaccuracies. A hign ranking American official once said that "if we weren't getting the worth of every penny we spend on Israel, we wouldn't be spending it". Note that apart from the high-visibility items like Iron Dome, which was made by US-Israel joint venture, a large number of Israeli weapons are indigenous and contrary to what people think, it is Israel who exports a lot of technology to US as well. They lead in electronic countermeasures and the US takes a lesson from them. Israel didn't give us Elta radar for free, nor did they give the ToT for it. We bought it off the shelf. And Eurofighter Typhoon has its own AESA radar so they didn't need US help. No one will part with critical ToT to you, not even for a price. Russia has evaded ToT for all weapon systems it has supplied to us, just recently it agreed to sell a very basic ToT for chrome plating of assault rifles. France refused ToT for Kaveri engine and urged us to buy their Snecma M88 engine. What world are you living in

 

[pmaitra]

@navneeet kundu , you can not be friend with someone who wants to kill you ,Iran is supporter of hazbola & hamas both shia as well as sunni want to kill ( or convert ) non-muslims ......................The main reason of war between Muslims & Jews ( & Christians ) is Jerusalem , they are fighting for it ,initially muslims used to pray in the direction of Jerusalem , but later it changed towards mecca , Jerusalem is very important for Abrahamic religions .................but not for us , there is no war between Jews & Hindus , Sikhs , Buddhists etc , we dont want to capture Jerusalem ............. so we can trust them ( and vise versa ) ...............................

why Israel is helping India ?? well Israel gets billions of dollars as American aid , and they get modern American weapons free of cost , so they dont need to invent weapons , but they still invent weapons because this American aid as well as weapon supply can be stopped in the future and they will be vulnerable in the absence of modern weapon technology , so they are inventing weapons & India is paying for it ( because we dont have any knowledge about it & these technologies are secret ) ....................we both need each other , this is how we got Elta radars , they did not asked for development cost of such advanced AESA radar , even America did not give its AESA radars to Britain ..................lets accept it we have to learn first , and we are learning from Israel , USA , Russia ,France etc .................

1. Iran is a supporter of Hezbollah, but how does that affect India? Why would Hezbollah want to kill us? Please look at the history of Hezbollah. I don't think there is any remote connection between Hezbollah and India. Hamas is in a tacit wink-wink agreement with Israel.
2. We don't want to capture Jerusalem. We also don't want to capture Mecca. Does that mean we can trust the Saudis?
3. Israel does not innovate as much as it gets. A significant portion of the technology that goes into Israeli weapons is not Israeli, but American. Without America, Israel would be producing and inventing much less. Some have suggested that Israel is a front for American weapons sales, otherwise blocked by American Congressional acts.
4. We cannot trust Israel, for the simple reason that ISIS has never attacked Israel, and Israel has never attacked ISIS, but Israel has attacked Syrian Army on occasions when they were fighting ISIS. Israel buys ISIS oil via Turkey. Are they worthy off trust? It is not about friendship or trust. It is about business. We pay them, and they give us.

@airtel I never professed friendship with Iran. There is a separate Shia-Sunni conflict thread where a discussion is going on, you can check that : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/shia-sunni-conflict.74892/

As to your second paragraph, it is full of factual inaccuracies. A hign ranking American official once said that "if we weren't getting the worth of every penny we spend on Israel, we wouldn't be spending it". Note that apart from the high-visibility items like Iron Dome, which was made by US-Israel joint venture, a large number of Israeli weapons are indigenous and contrary to what people think, it is Israel who exports a lot of technology to US as well. They lead in electronic countermeasures and the US takes a lesson from them. Israel didn't give us Elta radar for free, nor did they give the ToT for it. We bought it off the shelf. And Eurofighter Typhoon has its own AESA radar so they didn't need US help. No one will part with critical ToT to you, not even for a price. Russia has evaded ToT for all weapon systems it has supplied to us, just recently it agreed to sell a very basic ToT for chrome plating of assault rifles. France refused ToT for Kaveri engine and urged us to buy their Snecma M88 engine. What world are you living in

The innovation that US gets from Israel is minuscule compared to what Israel gets from the US.