Kolkata Class Destroyers Update

[Navneet Kundu]

The innovation that US gets from Israel is minuscule compared to what Israel gets from the US.

IDK how each of us define 'more', but objectively speaking, Israel gets platforms from USA, and USA gets peripherals from Israel.

For example, Israel gets F15 from USA but they have made massive mods to the design which even the US is taking notes from.

Check this : http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-amazing-saga-of-how-israel-turned-its-f-15s-into-mu-1701606283

During Operation entebbe they modified C130 plane with rocket boosters which the US later incorporated.

Check (timeline 23:10 onwards)


Even the Stuxnet virus that stalled Iran's nuclear centrifuges was made by Israel. The platform (supercomputer) might have been of US origin but the virus was made by Israel. The electronic softkill system (emp wave that kills incoming anti-tank rounds) that the Abrams tank uses is derived from Israeli Trophy tank-armor system.

Same with many other weapon systems. If you try to define 'more' by the financial involvement, obviously the US to Israel assistance appears more but if you define 'more' by number of innovations and scale of innovations and the utility of those innovations, Israel has supplied the US with a lot of 'technology'. As a frontline state facing Soviet made weapons during the Arab Israeli wars, Israel developed a lot of new tech, which the US later used in the cold war and Vietnam war and Korean war. I lost links to those innovations, but I have read it in books and documentaries, so it's a little tough to recollect and do a reverse search.

Israel is no beggar like Pakistan. In fact Israeli weapons industry took root even before the nation of Israel was formed. They made underground weapons designs to fight the British occupation of the 'Palestine mandate' and made the Brits piss their pants. This underground weapons factory was later made overground and became their backbone.

 

[pmaitra]

@Navneet Kundu, if Israel disappears, the US will continue to produce world class weapons. If the US disappears, Israel will be no better than Pakistan. It is not just about money. A lot of the research that goes into these weapons systems happens in US universities and by US researchers.

Your statement, "In fact Israeli weapons industry took root even before the nation of Israel was formed," is very true, and think about this statement closely. It reveals something.

 

[Navneet Kundu]

@pmaitra Talking of total disappearance makes the thought process a bit too binary. Of course USA will do just fine if Israel is no more. I never suggested that the core tech needed by US is supplied by Israel, just the peripherals. Take a nuanced look at it. The US also needs Israel for other strategic purposes. One is to control the situation in Middle East. Israel acts as a non-sinkable aircraft carrier that supports US interests. Plus as an ammo dump which the US can use for quick mobilization during a large war.

But since you mentioned disappearance, think about it this way : If Israel refuses to be American ally, America loses more than Israel. Israel can manage weapons from a combination of its own innovation plus european manufacturers. But if Israel is gone, the US has no way to control the supply of Arab oil. The US loses more if Israel disappears. On top of it, an Israeli-European weapons joint venture will start posing as a competition to US weapons sales globally. That's why I said that the US gets more from the US-Israel alliance. The US never makes equal partnerships. All its partnerships are made such that the US gains much more than it gives. This is the reason that allows Netenyahu to go to American congress, address elected members in defiance of Obama and give a middle finger to him. Because he knows that Israel has leverage over US not vice versa.

Note that US aid 3 billion annually is spent almost exclusively for iron dome. Rest all of Israel's weapon systems are indigenous be it Merkava tank, or small arms or drones or electronic warfare systems, or Elta radar or cyber weapons or satellites, or jet-launched missiles, or standoff weapons, or Spike anti-tank weapons. It has started to worry US industry that Israel sold Spike missiles to India and defeated a competing product, US Javelin. Israel also sold us green pine radar used for ballistic missile defense which the US wanted to veto but Israel gave them middle finger, why? because this is indigenous tech, not JV. The BMD consisting grine pine + barak 1 missile was a US-Israel JV, but the individual grine pine component was not. So Israel gave us green pine radar, and for the missile, they made JV with India for upgraded Barak 8.

Israel can make world class products even without US help. Heck, they did that despite US opposition.

 

[pmaitra]

@Navneet Kundu, I think Israel's capabilities are way overrated. We can discuss it in detail at an appropriate thread. Perhaps I could agree more with you than I am able to now.

 

[Navneet Kundu]

@pmaitra Sure, no problem. All I'm saying is that Israel's GDP is 330 Billion and US aid to Israel is just 3 Billion. Israel isn't going to wither away if that 3 Billion stops flowing in. They aren't a vassal state. They had even done an airstrike on a US ship that was spying on them.

Link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

A vassal state that relies on the US for military technology and aid would never do that. In fact their nuclear program has been made without US help. Their space program is completely indigenous and India launches their satellites. The US assistance to Israel is overrated. It's a small annual bribe to buy Israel's loyalty. No one wants to buy a weak nation's loyalty. If it were weak, the US could simply bully it.

 

[ozzy.osbourne]

how many ships in total of this class (project 15a + project 15b) are we gonna induct in the navy?? so far 3-15a and 4 15b , thats 7 . so only 7 or will there be more ?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

how many ships in total of this class (project 15a + project 15b) are we gonna induct in the navy?? so far 3-15a and 4 15b , thats 7 . so only 7 or will there be more ?

3 Kolkata class+ 4 Vizag Class. So, yes, we gonna induct only 7 of this class. People in thread are wishing Vizag class to be as good as Kolkata class, while Vizag Class is much better than Kolkata class.
:bounce:
Anyway, I think they should come up with something like starting of project 15C.

 

[ozzy.osbourne]

3 Kolkata class+ 4 Vizag Class. So, yes, we gonna induct only 7 of this class. People in thread are wishing Vizag class to be as good as Kolkata class, while Vizag Class is much better than Kolkata class.
:bounce:
Anyway, I think they should come up with something like starting of project 15C.

kk .so what are the major improvements in the vishakhapatnam class ? i think navy should go for something like the chinese type 055 class next

 

[Indx TechStyle]

kk .so what are the major improvements in the vishakhapatnam class ? i think navy should go for something like the chinese type 055 class next

It is much stealthier, enhanced defense and offense and more weapons. I will replay what and how later.
Currently, I'm busy on a forum with some pakis.
I will post their comments in idiotic musing thread.
:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

 

[Anikastha]

It is much stealthier, enhanced defense and offense and more weapons. I will replay what and how later.
Currently, I'm busy on a forum with some pakis.
I will post their comments in idiotic musing thread.
:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

Jaldi I m waiting!!!
By the way which Thread?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Jaldi I m waiting!!!
By the way which Thread?

Not on PDF, on Google+.
Sorry, I can't give the link because I don't wanna expose my real profile. Anyway, enjoy comments.
Let's go to the idiotic musings.

 

[Gessler]

Anyway, I think they should come up with something like starting of project 15C.

Project-18 destroyer is said to be in the works.

 

[ozzy.osbourne]

Project-18 destroyer is said to be in the works.

do you have any info on project 18 ? or can u post a link ?

 

[Gessler]

do you have any info on project 18 ? or can u post a link ?

Some info from what a conversation with Prasun K. Sengupta yielded -

> It's hull could be similar to P-15A/B designs, but with much-refined flush deck and stealth features.
> It will have a fully Integrated Mast (all radars, sensors, comm links etc. housed within one big mast)
> Will be able to carry upto 32 Nirbhay-type LACMs in dedicated cells.
> Atleast 16 AShMs and upto 64 SAMs would be there (total around 112 VLS cells for missiles).
> Likely to use BrahMos-II and Barak-8ER
> Electric propulsion concepts could be put to use, similar to what's on Type-26 Global combat ship.

Still too early to speculate any further. Btw, this is what an integrated mast looks like -

Ofcourse our's won't have a rotating array.

 

[aditya g]

Some info from what a conversation with Prasun K. Sengupta yielded ....

I would not attach any credibility to this information then...

 

[Gessler]

I would not attach any credibility to this information then...

Lol, well it's your wish mate.

 

[ozzy.osbourne]

Lol, well it's your wish mate.

who is he ? i am new around here .
thanks for the info

 

[Gessler]

who is he ? i am new around here .
thanks for the info

Defence analyst.

You can find him here : http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/

Post in the comments about any questions you have regarding defence industry and he'll turn up to answer.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@aditya g relax Buddy, I think everything about next class will be clear within one or two years.
Anyway, me and you exactly know that other class project exists because our Navy is expanding.

 

[Rizvi Khan]

@Navneet Kundu, I think Israel's capabilities are way overrated. We can discuss it in detail at an appropriate thread. Perhaps I could agree more with you than I am able to now.

We know very little of Israel and its undercover operations and the support they get from USA, both out of us and in US Homeland.