Know Your 'Rafale'

su35

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Evading air-to-air missile
Posted by picard578 on August 17, 2013

Missile evasion is a very important part of modern air combat, yet many people believe it is impossible. But this is false, for several reasons. First reason is that missile cannot turn tighter than the aircraft: in order to pull as tight turn as a fighter aircraft, missile has to pull amount of g that is amount of g’s aircraft can pull multiplied by factor of difference in speed squared. For example, Typhoon can pull 9 g at 360 kts, and IRIS-T can pull 60 g at Mach 3, or 1.984 knots. What this means is that IRIS-T will have 4,5 times as wide turn diameter. If target is pulling 9 g at Mach 0,9, then IRIS-T will still have 1,7 times as wide turn diameter, and if target is pulling sustained 5 g turn at 360 kts, IRIS-T will have 2,5 times as wide turn diameter.

Evasion is made easier in some situations by the fact that missile always attempts to lead the target. Thus if target changes heading, it will be hard pressed to correct. This is the case with BVR missiles, where target fighter aircraft can turn so that missile faces its side and only enter a turn once missile is close. Probability of BVR missile hitting is made worse by the fact that it is both faster and capable of pulling less Gs than WVR missile: AIM-120 can pull 40 g at Mach 4 (2.646 kts), which means that it will have 12,2 times as wide turn diameter as Typhoon in example above. Even if Typhoon turns at 5 g (maximum sustained g in AtG configuration), missile will still have 6,75 times as wide turn diameter. Also, when missile is tracking a maneuvering target, it bleeds off the energy.

Main problem with evading missiles is their speed, which makes timing somewhat difficult. However, even that is far less of a problem than commonly assumed, as missile will be closing at 1.200-1.400 meters per second in the best case. At 20 kilometers, this means 14-20 seconds to reach the target for a BVR missile, or 20-23 seconds for IR missile.

Thus there are several tactics to evade the missile, some of them very simple. First is a barrel roll. As missile is unable to track it, it will fly past and loose a lock in the process. Second is a simple turn, where pilot forces missile to follow it through a turn – this turn however must be well timed, and is very useful as an end move in more complex maneuvers designed to bleed off missile’s energy. It is also very useful in a dogfight, where rear-aspect shots are far more likely than front-aspect shots.



If missile is fired head-on at BVR range, there are several ways to evade it. First is to turn hard to either left or right so as to fly at roughly 90 degrees angle to attacking aircraft. This forces missile to bleed off the energy and to lead the target; as a result, once target aircraft makes a hard turn to reverse a direction, missile – with its far larger turn circle – will be unable to compensate. A variation of this tactic is also useful for head-on WVR launches.



Second tactic, which is also useful at short ranges, is jinking. Aircraft must be positioned so that it is at angle (30-60 degrees is optimum) relative to missile’s flight path; diving is recommended so as to keep energy and take advantage of ground clutter. Once missile gets closer, aircraft will make a hard turn in opposite direction; if missile follows, aircraft will immediately reverse the turn. As there is a lag between aircraft changing the direction and missile following (for several reasons, most important of which is missile’s inertia), this will cause missile to head in wrong direction until it manages to correct, and also to bleed off the energy. Eventually, it will fly past the aircraft and miss. A variation of this maneuver is to continue first turn into a barrel roll; missile will continue to track the aircraft, but in the end its lower turn rate will mean that it won’t be able to keep up.



Third tactic is to turn away and dive for the ground, gaining speed and putting as much distance as possible between aircraft and the missile. This tactic is also useful for rear-aspect BVR shots, but is not useful on its own at shorter ranges, and pilot must evade the missile physically by pulling the aircraft into the turn and forcing missile to overshoot once missile comes sufficiently close. Importance of last part is well displayed in both Gulf wars, where Iraqi failures to time the evasion, or even try to outturn the missile, resulted in unusually high missile Pk. Similar situation, but with WVR missiles, happened in Falklands war.



Fourth tactic, mostly useful at longer ranges, is to climb. Since at long range missile will have burned out its engine, it will rely on inertia to keep it flying, and climbing will mean that it will bleed off energy rapidly. Once missile reaches a close range (maybe around 1,500 meters), dive for the ground, then pull up. This will allow pilot to gain energy and using it to evade the missile.



Fifth tactic is to place the missile at 3 o’clock or 9 o’clock position, then maintain sufficient turn to keep the missile there. This tactic (which is also useful against WVR missiles) forces the missile to execute a continuous turn, bleeding the energy entire time, making it easier to outturn the missile once it comes close.



At very close range, missile will have poor maneuverability as it will not have picked up full speed which means it won’t be able to pull its “official” maximum number of g’s, and that pilot of targeted aircraft will have more time to react than maximum speed of missile might suggest. Missile’s maneuverability peaks at instant before motor burns out, as it will have lowest mass while still possessing motor thrust; this state is what is reflected in “official” statistics, and only under assumption that it did not have to maneuver beforehand.

Physically avoiding the enemy missile is not the only option. If missile is radar-guided, hard turns can cause it to loose lock and miss, regardless of wether it is guided by launch platform or is using its own radar; one of reasons is that most radar-guided missiles track target’s radar centroid, which changes with aspect, and as such target’s maneuvers can result in LOS jitter and return scillintation. It is also possible for a fighter to fly out of seeker’s FoV, regardless of wether missile uses IR or active radar guidance; this has greatest likelyhood of happening if fighter closes with missile at angle. Most modern missiles self-destruct if they have lost the lock. Maneuvers can cause degradation in performance of missile’s fuze, and if aircraft is low-flying, terrain can cause activation of proximity fuze. Jamming can also help evade radar-guided missiles, making acquisition of target difficult for the missile; chaff can also be used to deceive missile’s radar (active-radar missiles are unlikely to use AESA radar due to power and weight requirements) or fuze, forcing either a miss or a premature detonation.

Missile’s effective range is also dependant on altitude, relative speeds. As a rule of thumb, it doubles every 20.000 feet (6.100 meters) above the sea level. Speeds also have a major impact: if target is running away, then every 100 knots in speed advantage for target reduces missile’s range by 5-25%, depending on missile’s own speed. Large target speed advantage can also cause acquisition difficulties for Doppler-radar missiles fired from the rear.
Excellent post bro, I am going remember this article always, this will stop the mouth all those fanboys who feel BVR missile will dominate Modern combat. I always feel that air combat has not actually evolved after WW2 it is only has changed its form. Still cannon, dogfight and pilot skill decides the Ruler of skies
 

smestarz

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Since your read the post carefully, did you read who wrote it? Why not ask that Gentleman? After all he is regarded higly by Picdel.... who you regard highly.. Sorry Dogmatix, I can show you where the bone is, you have to chew it yourself.

IS THIS A PROOF ? absolutely not.
I read carefully this post, nothing the way you want.
 

smestarz

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I visited the website of Dassault, and there they dont have any article regarding RCS of Rafale,
Global security is a neutral forum which gives details of many planes, There is a link for you to see,
Since you do not believe it, please do provide a link of credible source which says Rafales loaded RCS is 0.5 sq metre. I think everyone on the forum will be interested. At least I might say 3 guys interested..
Dogmatix .. Fetch ..

Typhoon half more stealthy than Rafale ???? just see air intakes and body sides..... This document is BS...
 

smestarz

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smestarz

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Can you post the link for the article, merely putting it in Red does not mean its credible
Let me analyse something for you,
Apparently its written by a fanboy, and since it says "intended for delivery before end of 2013" it means the article is 2013 or before (at least 3 years before) and hence this aritcle was written by someone WELL BEFORE METEOR WAS TESTED. BTW we are in 2016 and the delivery of Meteor has not started.

Few more things, usually when people talk of range, they talk of range in more precise manner something like between 500-600 kms or 75-100 kms the percentage of variation is controlled maybe till 25% but when the article says that the different sources give range being between 100-250 kms that means the sources which he has vary from someone who knows it, and someone who is possibly French (exaggerating the details)
The article is amateurish and ambiguous, What exactly does the article talk of with Cetainity? or confidence?
When an amateur talks of "range being classified" it usually means "I do not know it, I am speculating"

Thats the post mortem of your post.

Also as I said, what manufacturers say is the most important which manufacturer is so stupid to put the range of their missile Half that of its actual range? I mean they are really falling short of their marketing objectives else the market is not looking for "long range" but only "medium" range and hence this missile can qualify. Sounds ridiculous? Or is it that its normal practice in France to do that (MBDA is French)

Also to add, many Rafale fan boys say that SPECTRA is classified and no one knows about the true capability and range of it, but yet time and time again, we do find some BS coming from Rafale fanboys about SPECTRA being able to detect something about 100 kms and 200 kms.

I think it would be best if you have consistency about weaving your BS. Its not that your BS is not entertaining, it is , but then there are far too many holes to call it good weaving. Try again.

MBDA Meteor is a long-range BVR ramjet missile, intended for delivery before end of 2013. Different sources give range as being anywhere from 100 to 250 kilometers, but actual range is classified. It is said however that ducted rocket in Meteor has three times the range of the solid rocket; assuming that comparision is made to the missile it is replacing, Meteor’s range may be around 225 kilometers
 

PaliwalWarrior

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And on what basis should we give any credit to your rants ? You have not flown a jet, commanded squdrons or air wings, you have no direct connections with the military whatsoever ! But you are the genius and people with entire lives in the service of the nation are old fools.
Bhai it is my hard earned tax money which will be used to finance the purchase
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Official data is 100km. Reality is far more, but classified. It's not important to give officialy the real range as EVERY BODY, even you, know a stato is far more efficient than a classical booster counterpart.
and probably this is 100km with a full pk.... You classical "rocket" AtoA missile can't have it.

OK for Russian radar range you claim doubts over mfg data I.e. mfg data not reliable

But for meteor you are saying mfg data is OK
I.e. mfg data is more than reliable

Wow
 

PaliwalWarrior

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SU35 radar can see a 2m² target at 300-350km. And it's the radar supplier datas.... questionnable....
Rafale RCS is far far under 0,5 m²
I.e.when rafale is in clean config and only the frontal sector RCS

What about fully loaded and side profile RCS ?
 

smestarz

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Now possibly expect a reply which says how Su-30 MKI Su-35 and Eurofighter have bigger RCS..
Whatever RCS that Rafale has, is enough for planes like Su-35 to target and shoot down with its longer ranged missiles. Snipe and change positions

I.e.when rafale is in clean config and only the frontal sector RCS

What about fully loaded and side profile RCS ?
 

sasum

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Ducted motor in Meteor is primarily used as a compressed gas generator to feed the Ramjet intake. It does not itself propels much. The propeller is the Ramjet engine. So while Meteor may achieve very high speed, it is unlikely to have extended range. Its range will be restricted to the amount of solid fuel packed in the primary motor.
 

BON PLAN

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It replaces Matra Super 530 that barely has 45km. So 45*3 is not 250 :)
Repeat once more: when MBDA will name us Meteor's exact range then we will discuss it.
Making your text Red does'nt give it more rekiability or any proofs :)

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Meteor to replace Matra super 530 ....... your are pulling our leg !

Super 530 is phased out from some years. Replace by MICA EM. And GB, Sweden, Germany.... ne ver used Super 530.
 

BON PLAN

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Since your read the post carefully, did you read who wrote it? Why not ask that Gentleman? After all he is regarded higly by Picdel.... who you regard highly.. Sorry Dogmatix, I can show you where the bone is, you have to chew it yourself.
To be regarded, even highly, is not a proof.
Have a nice day, Liarix
 

BON PLAN

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Apparently its written by a fanboy, and since it says "intended for delivery before end of 2013" it means the article is 2013 or before (at least 3 years before) and hence this aritcle was written by someone WELL BEFORE METEOR WAS TESTED. BTW we are in 2016 and the delivery of Meteor has not started.
It was a french air force choice (and a Financial one also...) to postponed Meteor integration, and we were speaking a lot of it to not come back another time.
You feel strange a weapon programme is late? see F35 ! see Tejas even see PAKFA
 

PaliwalWarrior

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It's why a Stato 160kg AAM has more range than a booster 160kg AAM. Every body knows that. So Meteor range >> 100kms.
Range > 100 km nice

Now let's discuss details
At what altitude and in what mode ( head on or tail chase mode ?)
 

BON PLAN

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Can you post the link for the article, merely putting it in Red does not mean its credible
It's just a small part of the long and interesting post send TODAY by BAHAMUT
Dassault Rafale analysis
Posted by picard578 on August 24, 2013

You even have not read it carefully, because it's a praise for Rafale.... it make you ill.

YOU WILL ALWAYS FIND THIS SENTENCE :
"Further, Rafale has sawtooth design on all surfaces that are not angled when viewed from front, such as inner air intake surface as well as wing and canard trailling edge control surfaces; all panels and landing gear doors also have sawtooth design. Rafale’s fin is radar-transparent, and air intakes are treated with RAM. It can also carry 2 missiles in wingtip carriage; drag- and RCS- -wise, these missiles are almost irrelevant. Rafale’s canopy is also coated with gold, which reduces RCS signature from rather uneven cockpit innards, while protrusions are used to hide gap between canards and the airframe. All these measures provide Rafale with frontal RCS that is, according to Dassault, 1/10 of Mirage; this translates into 0,1-0,2 m2"

You prefer blue to red ?
 

BON PLAN

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Range > 100 km nice

Now let's discuss details
At what altitude and in what mode ( head on or tail chase mode ?)
a range is a range. If the target come to you, you can fired it before target entering in the missile range.
 

BON PLAN

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OK for Russian radar range you claim doubts over mfg data I.e. mfg data not reliable

But for meteor you are saying mfg data is OK
I.e. mfg data is more than reliable

Wow
Just have a look to the perf of T72 tank during iraki war .....
It was the better russian tank of the period. Feared.....
They were destroyed by dozens with quite no lost.

Same for Mig 25.

How many Israeli fighters shoot down by Syrian Mig 29 during the last 10-15 years? Zero.

Russian products not so evoluted.
 

BON PLAN

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Ducted motor in Meteor is primarily used as a compressed gas generator to feed the Ramjet intake. It does not itself propels much. The propeller is the Ramjet engine. So while Meteor may achieve very high speed, it is unlikely to have extended range. Its range will be restricted to the amount of solid fuel packed in the primary motor.
and ?
 

gadeshi

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Meteor to replace Matra super 530 ....... your are pulling our leg !

Super 530 is phased out from some years. Replace by MICA EM. And GB, Sweden, Germany.... ne ver used Super 530.
They have used the same shit like Aspide, Sky Flash and the like.
The only exclusion was Germany using American weapons and don't bother with EU inferior shit.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
 

smestarz

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Range is a range is a range, but when the opponent has long range missile and can detect you first with his 350 ranged radar and has 150kms + A2A missile and You (lets say in Rafale) is having AESA that can detect at 200 kms and has a missile that has range of 100 kms, then the will be shooting first when his missile are in range, and that means YOU ARE THE TARGET. So its not the taget that is coming to you, but the hunger.
Su-30, Su-35 were designed to give the air forces using them an unfair advantage.
a range is a range. If the target come to you, you can fired it before target entering in the missile range.
 

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