Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

Just French BS that Mirage 2000 is better than F-16.. Does Mirage 2000 have AESA? F-16 Does
Even during Kargil, Mirage 2000 was accompanied by MiG-29 so that the PAF F-16s dont shoot down Mirage 2000. So are you now questioning what IAF knows about Mirage 2000 ?
If IAF was confident of Mirage 2000 "superiority " over F-16, then Mirage 2000 would not be accompanied by MiG-29.

BS again.
M2000 is better in medium and high altitude. Its instantaneous turn is better in all speed and altitude. F16 only win after some turns, because M2000 lacks energy more than F16.
first batch of F16 had a worst radar than M2000 (and no medium range missile), because studied as short range day light fighter (Sidewinder only).
intermediate batchs F16 were better.
M2000-5 was better than F16-50.

 

[smestarz]

Does the AdlA call Mirage 2000 as LIGHT FIGHTER? If yes then do point to an officail ADLA link.
Funny how French canary sings the tune of IAF just to pimp some Rafales.,

Stop writing such idiocy.
M2000, in it's latest models, remain one of the finest light fighter.

 

[smestarz]

The Latest Models of Mirage 2000 just simple question
a) Does it have an AESA and does M2000 radar outrange the Radar of F-16
b) what sort of Long range Missile does Mirage 2000 have?

The best part is that your "finest fighter" is easily shot down by F-16 using its AESA and AMRAAM
I think Mirage 2000 is good for just flying circus in France. When it comes to fighting, Mirage 2000 is at home in its hangar.. It just cannot face the F-16 in combat.. It simply would be outranged and out gunned

Stop writing such idiocy.
M2000, in it's latest models, remain one of the finest light fighter.

 

[smestarz]

Does thatlook like Macron?
Mirage 2000 was replaced by Rafale so that the French would try to have some parity with the Russians who came up with MiG-29 and Sukhoi 27 series, Why else the French suddenly felt the need for Twin engine plane when most planes that Dassault was producing was single engine? Dassault designed Mirage 4000 (twin engine Mirage 2000) which was refused by France because it was not worth the cost. But then when France saw the Russian planes, they actually did something like this bull and thought " ... we have to do something else we wont be significant .... " and so the French developed Rafale, Why is that the French had refused Mirage 4000 and suddenly became interested in Twin engined plane as soon as the Russians came with theirs?

Do give it a thought and logic and try not to spread manure,

:bs: .

 

[smestarz]

Most of your article was logical but some are utter BS
It is well known fact about the F-16 - Mirage 2000 incident.
And let me put again for record,, I guess the French have a bad memory.

The Turkish F-16 was flying on training Mission with trainee pilot and a colonel was in the second seat. Greek M-2000 apparently did not warn and simply shot the plane down. IF you search the net you will even find the name of the pilots. The Greek pilot later met the surviving Turkish colonel in hospital and apologised for it.
So the mistake done by Greek pilot and you credit it as M2000 victory? You French folks are really finding a new low arent you? All for pimping french Warez

Also the French were using Super Etendards on their carriers which had almost 20% accident rate..please do mention that too.

The logistical nightmare was waiting for the US to give parts for the F-8 Crusaders. They were our F-14s until the Rafale replaced it. All of the Mirages to that point had long been in production with plenty of exports, getting spares for those was easy.



The M2000 had higher availability rates and lower operating costs than the original F-16. Most of US sales of F-16s were military aid packages given to nations for free. The nations that didn't get military aid opted for the Mirage. Turkey found out how well their welfare package F-16s could do against Greek Mirages when their F-16 was shot down over the Aegean for violating Athens FIR. As the F-16s went into later blocks the M2000 fell behind in its upgrades as the Rafale was coming.



The first MiG-29s didn't have fly-by-wire. The M2000 could easily spank them in high G manoeuvres. The Archer wasn't widely added to the MiG-29 until the time the Mica was added to M2000 C and later M2000-5. Once Mica came on line any Russian advantage was lost. With the addition of the Thales Topsight cueing system the Russians were so embarrassed by their antiquated helmet they withdrew it from the export catalogue and started offering the French system for export on their MiG-29s.



The air superiority fighter on our carriers was the F-8E Crusader as I mentioned before. It was totally inadequate to the task of dealing with anything post 1980. It's obsolescence was the driving factor of an early emphasis on Rafale M production to quickly replace them. If you notice which squadrons were filled up first with Rafale, it was Aeronavale.



I agree that the M2000-5 line was shut down too early. There was still export demand for that aircraft as it had excellent price to performance and would still beat an F-16 in an open competition, without US welfare package. Export clients were looking for AESA equipped aircraft by that time and the Rafale was the only one going to get it, and it got it long before any non-US aircraft.

The first Rafale Ms were not mothballed per-say, they were withdrawn in need of upgrades as they were the first batch and another squadron of Rafale of a higher block took their place. They had been rushed into service to replace the F-8Es as mentioned before. The SEMs still had plenty of hours on them and were to be used until all squadrons could be formed with Rafale. There was no dragging into the Rafale, it was designed from the outset to replace all aircraft types. The thing that slowed down it's procurement was a sudden explosion of export orders after a decade of not having one. The production line was switched to export so the defence budget could be used to procure other much needed equipment. Once the bulk of export orders were filled there would be more frames in service and the state could benefit from economies of scale. Later buys means a later block and that they wouldn't need to be upgraded for much longer such as the first Rafale Ms had to be. A Rafale M with Meteor and RBE2 AESA is the most advanced combat aircraft on the high seas.

 

[smestarz]

Very good chance that it would be F/A-18 ... India and USA are going to sign a lot of agreements like CISMOA and LEMOA

I'm gonna write an article soon on this but the clear answer is.........>RAFALE.


There is no other viable option, anyone that thinks another MMRCA is going to land in India other than Rafale is deluding themselves, it is Rafale or nothing.

 

[smestarz]

There was no way in the world that IAF would have got 126 Rafales with Weapons and indian customisation etc for 10 billion including the line, not dollars not even euros.
The thing was dragged on so that the govt could then justify the increase in price. The tender was designed in such a way, that no matter was GoI would not be allowed to discuss with L2 (nice fixing IAF)
Considering that some guys have given the cost at which Indian purchased the planes, you can calculate the cost that would be base would be abt 500 million per base.. The India specific customisation a cool billion dollars plus. the production line a billion dollars. The missiles for the 126 would be a few billion dollars., If India had taken as per the RFP, the cost would easily be 40 billioin for 126 planes with 108 made in india. Imagine what headlines those would have become if GoI would have signed that deal... LOL

Not just Rafale...not a single one of the MMRCA competitors would have been affordable enough to procure the req 126 airframes. DA qualified as L1 and they were still waaaay over the projected budget. And the whole reason for that is simple...the budget allocated was originally for 126 M2000's which the IAF wanted way back in 2001. The MMRCA circus dragged on for so long that the budget became unrealistic due to inflation.

 

[smestarz]

Qatar has not signed a new deal, just exercised the option for 12 more planes.. hahahaha
BTW Qataris are doing this to ensure that the Russians, the French (the members of UNSC) are kept in good humour and they veto any move against Qatar

BTW, this is old news, happened on Dec 2017 and you read it now??

I'm very pleased to confirm you all that the 12 Rafale follow on order for Qatar is now effective.

http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/qatar---option-for-12-rafale-becomes-effective.html

And don't forget the 36 new options with it !

I'm sure some old friends will appreciate.... @Immanuel @smestarz ...

 

[smestarz]

Your link
http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/qatar---option-for-12-rafale-becomes-effective.html

Read this please
This option was exercised on 7 December 2017 at Doha in the presence of the President of the French Republic, Emmanuel Macron, and his Highness Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani.

LOL the french are just desperate to have some good news hahahahaha hilarious

I guess in few days you can put link to news that India ordered some Rafales in 2016 hahaha Good luck

I'm very pleased to confirm you all that the 12 Rafale follow on order for Qatar is now effective.

http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/qatar---option-for-12-rafale-becomes-effective.html

And don't forget the 36 new options with it !

I'm sure some old friends will appreciate.... @Immanuel @smestarz ...

 

[smestarz]

Spain is looking for replacement of the current EF/A-18 Hornet Fleet. Candidates are F-35, F/A-18E/F or Typhoon... OH., NO RAFALE ??? Wonder why

 

[Tactical Frog]

Spain is looking for replacement of the current EF/A-18 Hornet Fleet. Candidates are F-35, F/A-18E/F or Typhoon... OH., NO RAFALE ??? Wonder why

Because Spain is part because of Typhoon consortium, and because F-35 B is a natural successor of AV 8 B Harrier in the Spanish Navy , so ordering F-35 A for Spanish airforce makes sense.

That is as stupid as asking why France would not consider Typhoon for replacing its last Mirage 2000.

 

[Armand2REP]

Most of your article was logical but some are utter BS
It is well known fact about the F-16 - Mirage 2000 incident.
And let me put again for record,, I guess the French have a bad memory.

The Turkish F-16 was flying on training Mission with trainee pilot and a colonel was in the second seat. Greek M-2000 apparently did not warn and simply shot the plane down. IF you search the net you will even find the name of the pilots. The Greek pilot later met the surviving Turkish colonel in hospital and apologised for it.
So the mistake done by Greek pilot and you credit it as M2000 victory? You French folks are really finding a new low arent you? All for pimping french Warez

Also the French were using Super Etendards on their carriers which had almost 20% accident rate..please do mention that too.

Let's see, Turkey F-16 violated Greek airspace in 1996, Greek M2000 intercepted and began dogfight, M2000 won dogfight as usual the only difference from the other 100 intercepts was he shot it down. The Greeks admit nothing and no apology was ever given. The Greek pilot has an arrest warrant in Turkey so I highly doubt he went to Turkey.

Don't forget to mention no SEM was lost for 8 years until it retired.

 

[mayfair]

Even during Kargil, Mirage 2000 was accompanied by MiG-29 so that the PAF F-16s dont shoot down Mirage 2000..

Clearly you understand little of warcraft. Mirage 2000s were on a bombing mission with heavy ass LGBs and as such I am not sure if they carried air to air weapons. Mig 29s were armed with BVR and that's why they accompanied Mirage 2000s. You do not leave combat jets on a bombing missions with no support.

Kargil incident does in no way indicate which among F16 or Mirage was better.

But what DID happen was that our Mig 29s locked onto the Napaki F-16s and forced them to turned tail.

Now you tell me what does that tell of superiority.

 

[BON PLAN]

Does Mirage 2000 have AESA? F-16 Does
Even during Kargil, Mirage 2000 was accompanied by MiG-29 so that the PAF F-16s dont shoot down Mirage 2000. So are you now questioning what IAF knows about Mirage 2000 ?
If IAF was confident of Mirage 2000 "superiority " over F-16, then Mirage 2000 would not be accompanied by MiG-29.

M2000 don't have AESA.
F16 didn't have AESA in 1999 !!!
During Kargil, M2000 were used to bomb, and as they were not "-5" or "-9" model, can't embark medium range AAM and bombs together. Note that it was the solde plane of the IAF able to bomb at such an altitude, and that it was not its primarly task. It was the job of Mig23 and Mig29 or Jaguar, but they failed.

 

[BON PLAN]

Does the AdlA call Mirage 2000 as LIGHT FIGHTER? If yes then do point to an officail ADLA link.
Funny how French canary sings the tune of IAF just to pimp some Rafales.,

It's a fact. It's a light fighter : 7.5T empty.
Rafale is a medium one (low end). in the 10 tons empty
Su30 is a heavy one.

 

[BON PLAN]

The Latest Models of Mirage 2000 just simple question
a) Does it have an AESA and does M2000 radar outrange the Radar of F-16
b) what sort of Long range Missile does Mirage 2000 have?

The best part is that your "finest fighter" is easily shot down by F-16 using its AESA and AMRAAM
I think Mirage 2000 is good for just flying circus in France. When it comes to fighting, Mirage 2000 is at home in its hangar.. It just cannot face the F-16 in combat.. It simply would be outranged and out gunned

No need of an AESA to have a nice fighter. AESA just add range and interlaced modes.
F15, F16, SU30MKI (PESA radar) are able to fired medium range missile.

Long range missile? what mean long range? AMRAAM = medium range as spell int its name and the longer range F15/F16/SH18,F22/F35 missile.
The sole long range missile in the west is Meteor (and beforet the US Phenix).

MICA's range is up to 80kms. It's enough to pleased to India, Egypt, UAE, Qatar, Greece,Taiwan.
(Size is not the sole argument my dear. See your own case).

And unfortunatly for you, a F16 was shooting down by a M2000 in air combat, never the contrary !

 

[BON PLAN]

Why is that the French had refused Mirage 4000 and suddenly became interested in Twin engined plane as soon as the Russians came with theirs?

Nearly ten years spent between the M2000 selection by French president Giscard d'Estaing (1976) and the lunch of Rafale programm (1987 by President Chirac). You don't change in ten years? You not.

M4000 was nearly 2 times heavier than M2000. It's unit price nearly double also. It was not choose because of that, because the price of a fighter is a question of weight.

French air force dreamed of a twin engined plase since years. The choice of a twin Rafale was made because it was going to become the vector of deterrence (and replace another twin plane : Mirage 4) and to be safer for carrier operation.
The Mig29/SU27 was just there to give the performance enveloppe. A single engined plane, with a sole heavy engine would have been enough.

 

[BON PLAN]

Most of your article was logical but some are utter BS
It is well known fact about the F-16 - Mirage 2000 incident.
And let me put again for record,, I guess the French have a bad memory.

The Turkish F-16 was flying on training Mission with trainee pilot and a colonel was in the second seat. Greek M-2000 apparently did not warn and simply shot the plane down. IF you search the net you will even find the name of the pilots. The Greek pilot later met the surviving Turkish colonel in hospital and apologised for it.
So the mistake done by Greek pilot and you credit it as M2000 victory? You French folks are really finding a new low arent you? All for pimping french Warez

Also the French were using Super Etendards on their carriers which had almost 20% accident rate..please do mention that too.

ah ah ah. so funny.

These 2 turkish F16 were inside the greek airspace, and they received radio messages to go away. No radio aboard F16?
The greek M2000 and turkisf F16 went in a dog fight and the winner was M2000. That's all.

 

[BON PLAN]

Qatar has not signed a new deal, just exercised the option for 12 more planes.. hahahaha
BTW Qataris are doing this to ensure that the Russians, the French (the members of UNSC) are kept in good humour and they veto any move against Qatar

BTW, this is old news, happened on Dec 2017 and you read it now??

You are not aware of these things.
A deal is formaly effective only when the first advance payment is made. It was not in dec 2017, but in march 2018.

 

[abingdonboy]

Very good chance that it would be F/A-18 ... India and USA are going to sign a lot of agreements like CISMOA and LEMOA

No chance, India will never buy an American fighter.

And F18 and Rafale cost about the same but Rafale has substantially more capabilities, with the enormous investment India has already made in Rafale it makes no economic sense to go for a new MMRCA type.

Make no mistake, Rafale is the only MMRCA IAF will operate everything else is just hot air.