Know Your 'Rafale'

[Sancho]

What I said:

Wrong again, since they reduced the number of initially planned Rafale orders and upgraded the M2Ks instead, to keep them available for a longer time, as a more cost-effective multi role complement to Rafale

What you said (apart of all the unrelated stuff)

4. Flying a Mirage 2000 is cheaper to fly and maintain than Rafale (single engine vs twin engine)

And again, you agree with what I said, just either can see or admit it. So be it USAF or French, they all have hi low mixes of fighters in different weight classes, because they offer either more capability, or lower costs, but they are not role related anymore and the same applies to IAF with LCA, MMRCA, MKI, just that it's a triple class mix instead of the more common / better twin class mix.

 

[Sancho]

I'm gonna write an article soon on this but the clear answer is.........>RAFALE.

Please do a fact checking on the Rafale versions, the offset clause, or the customizations, there are several factual inaccuracies, that you seem to have taken over from your forum post.
I get that you can't get over the bias, but at least the facts on Rafale and the MMRCA tender should be correct if you put yourself in public.

http://rafalenews.blogspot.de/2017/03/rafale-f4-standard-launched.html?m=1

 

[Sancho]

Just buy more Rafales and close the topic of MMRCA tender.

If that would had been possible, we wouldn't need this circus anymore. But Dassault made that impossible and the NDA government is trying to reduce costs, since they have an evident funding problem.
Not to mention that IAF wanted 126 x MMRCAs, no matter which one, since they want numbers of them, not just 36 x Rafales.

 

[uoftotaku]

If that would had been possible, we wouldn't need this circus anymore. But Dassault made that impossible and the NDA government is trying to reduce costs, since they have an evident funding problem.
Not to mention that IAF wanted 126 x MMRCAs, no matter which one, since they want numbers of them, not just 36 x Rafales.

Not just Rafale...not a single one of the MMRCA competitors would have been affordable enough to procure the req 126 airframes. DA qualified as L1 and they were still waaaay over the projected budget. And the whole reason for that is simple...the budget allocated was originally for 126 M2000's which the IAF wanted way back in 2001. The MMRCA circus dragged on for so long that the budget became unrealistic due to inflation.

 

[BON PLAN]

And again, you agree with what I said, just either can see or admit it. So be it USAF or French, they all have hi low mixes of fighters in different weight classes, because they offer either more capability, or lower costs, but they are not role related anymore and the same applies to IAF with LCA, MMRCA, MKI, just that it's a triple class mix instead of the more common / better twin class mix.

Rafale is intended to replace all the plane in the French forces. We use M2000 now only because the budget cuts reduce the Rafale order (320 at the beginning before the iron wall collapse, then 286, then 225 now). It really not a question of operationnal costs, I can assure you.

To speak of a high/low mix is true with F15/F16, F22/F35, Mig29/Su27. Not really with M2000/Rafale that are, in term of mass, nearer than the others.

 

[BON PLAN]

Not just Rafale...not a single one of the MMRCA competitors would have been affordable enough to procure the req 126 airframes. DA qualified as L1 and they were still waaaay over the projected budget. And the whole reason for that is simple...the budget allocated was originally for 126 M2000's which the IAF wanted way back in 2001. The MMRCA circus dragged on for so long that the budget became unrealistic due to inflation.

I think you made clear a dark thing. Congrats

 

[Immanuel]

Rafale C was available for export since its first flight.
See F35 : it was even sold before !
See how lucky are the Dutch having baught an affordable, agile and supercruising powerpoint F35 : 85 on the agenda. With the same budget they will finally have 37 stealthy big goose


UAE : you don't know your best ennemy history :
UAE choose not to purchase Rafale in 2011. Rafale F3 was already released in mid 2008.

Just to give you a cultural varnish about rafale :

Previous Rafale standards contents

• LF1 standard (2000/05/01)
  • R550 Magic 2
• F1 standard (2001/12/01)
  • 30M791 gun A2A modes
  • Mica EM
  • SPECTRA
• F2.1 standard (2005/12/01)
  • Hadrware update
  • MDPU
  • MIDS-Link16
  • Upgraded SPECTRA
  • OSF
  • Sensor fusion
  • SCALP
  • MICA-IR
• F2.2 standard (01/06/2006)
  • SBU-38
  • Upgraded SPECTRA
  • Obsolescences updates
• F3.0 standard (01/07/2008)
  • Hardware update
  • Long range MICA-IR modes
  • High resolution Radar MAP
  • Upgraded IFF
  • SLPRM V4-2
• F3.1 standard (2009/06/01)
  • Common F3 software for retrofited F2 and F3-O aircrafts
• F3.2 standard (2010/03/01)
  • Full LGB capability
  • Damocles-MP
  • GBU-12/22
  • SBU-64
  • 30M791 gun A2G modes
  • AM39 block 2 mod 2
  • ASMP-A
  • AREOS recce pod
• F3.3 standard (2012/01/01)
  • MIDS-Link16 upgrade
  • RBE-2 AESA
  • OSF-IT
  • DDM-NG
  • New MFD
  • Improved HUD transparancy
  • Upgraded IFF
• F3.3' standard (2013/05/01)
  • GBU-24
  • AESA antenna compatibility with tranche 1, 2, 3 aircrafts
• F3.4+ standard (2014/12/01)
  • MGRS format GPS data input
  • Updated HUD safety symbology and warning
  • New take off abortion warning (max brake energy capability)
  • Real time ground following mode switch (radar-digital mapping)
• F3R standard (2018/10/01)
  • Meteor
  • Talios LDP
  • AGCAS
  • IFF mode 5/S
  • Link 16 upgrade
  • RBE-2 PESA upgrade
  • SPECTRA upgrade
  • AREOS pod upgrade
  • Full SBU-54 integration
  • AASM fuse programmation upgrade
  • GBU-16 integration
  • NARANG refueling pod

The SH18 block3 is so nice that its line will shut down in a few years.
Better AESA : just bigger antenna. But the plane is bigger ans less stealthy....
Better datalinks? prove it.
Better CFT ? : Rafale don't need it. It's lighter than SH but has longer legs without and better load capacity.
Better cockpit? : prove it.
LO weapons pod : only mock up for the moment. If you want Dassault can make the same in wood + polystyrene .
Better IRST ? : prove it. An IRST in the center external tanks ! what an idea....
Most reliable engine : why not.
Same engine than LCA. Probably not for a long time. Kaveri will reborn.
Lowest cost operations ? : prove it. Beeing heavier I have a doubt....
able to deploy perhaps the widest range of weapons ever integrated on a fighter : probably.



Reply from F-18SH thread:

To believe the Dutch would buy 85 F-35 was always silly, they don't need more than 30, 30-40 are perfectly fine for countries the size of Belgium, Netherland. They thought they would replace 1 for 1 the F-16 but they realized it's overkill and will make unneeded spending. Belgium and Netherlands are notorious for underutilization of their F-16 fleets.

Funny thing is F-35 outsold already and outdelivered the Rafale even before FOC. UAE was indeed asked to fund some F3+ version with better AESA and others since they found the Block 60 was better and did the job at a cheaper rate.

To believe the SH line will close is also silly, there are well over 500+ SH in USN orders alone and many of them will undergo Block 3 SLEP. Boeing can keep the line open for another few years without international orders as well. Kuwait order will help followed by a Canadian order which is still more than possible.

As for SH Block 3 rcs, should be better than Rafale
CFTs add more range
Better cockpit: by far, Large panel displays will make life easy
LO weapons pod: already tested long time ago on the SH (I saw a pic of Dassault trying to copy this for Rafale, may they should indeed make some from wood to start with)
IRST is slated to go on the airframe itself
F414 remains unmatched in flight hours vs incidents, probably a sqd of SH flies more combat sorties in a month than all Rafales combined in a year. Which we know isn't much since Rafale availability is less than 50%
F414 orders for LCA mk-2 are confirmed and the deal is done so those engines for MK-2 have already started arriving. As for Kaveri, can only be on LCA mk-3. It first has to undergo extensive testing on one of the IOC LCAs. GE is also in a strong position to work on the AMCA.

http://www.businessinsider.com/price-military-aircraft-per-flight-hour-2016-8?IR=T#fa-18f-8

SH costs per flight hr are between $10-11K and it has remained consistent for over a decade.

SH Block 3 is a formidable contender against the Rafale

 

[BON PLAN]

As for SH Block 3 rcs, should be better than Rafale
CFTs add more range
Better cockpit: by far, Large panel displays will make life easy
LO weapons pod: already tested long time ago on the SH (I saw a pic of Dassault trying to copy this for Rafale, may they should indeed make some from wood to start with)
IRST is slated to go on the airframe itself
F414 remains unmatched in flight hours vs incidents, probably a sqd of SH flies more combat sorties in a month than all Rafales combined in a year. Which we know isn't much since Rafale availability is less than 50%
F414 orders for LCA mk-2 are confirmed and the deal is done so those engines for MK-2 have already started arriving. As for Kaveri, can only be on LCA mk-3. It first has to undergo extensive testing on one of the IOC LCAs. GE is also in a strong position to work on the AMCA.

http://www.businessinsider.com/price-military-aircraft-per-flight-hour-2016-8?IR=T#fa-18f-8

SH costs per flight hr are between $10-11K and it has remained consistent for over a decade.

SH Block 3 is a formidable contender against the Rafale

Rafale also have plan to reduce RCS : it is called DEDIRA, is very secret and the results are known to be "very good"...
CFT add range but add drag and reduce agility. And you can't jettisoned it in case of. Rafale don't need it so far.
Better cockpit? size doesn't really pater. What's important is the quality of the data, and the sensors and fusion data of the french plane are very very good (see swiss eval, with PESA radar...)
LO weapon pod : too easy to make. A think that Dassault, able to developp the Hermes space shuttle, can do it easily.
IRST : for the moment no IRST on the SH frame. I know that the US are very keen to proomise everything. But the specialist is not Boeing, but LM.
F414 : indeed a very reliable engine. But no Rafale were lost due to engine failure....
And I'm not sure that india will link the future of one of its main plane with a US engine : too risky. Too fool with Trump as President.

 

[Sancho]

Not just Rafale...not a single one of the MMRCA competitors would have been affordable enough to procure the req 126 airframes. DA qualified as L1 and they were still waaaay over the projected budget. And the whole reason for that is simple...the budget allocated was originally for 126 M2000's which the IAF wanted way back in 2001. The MMRCA circus dragged on for so long that the budget became unrealistic due to inflation.

The costs speculated in the media was based on the costs speculated for Mirage 2000 and Co in the MRCA, but the budgets for MRCA must had been higher from the point that the replies to the RFI/RFPs went out, because the tender was increased to include bigger and costlier fighters too.

Also budget to pay for 126 x Rafales was never in question since 2012. The only cost issues were regarding the lifecycle cost calculation and Parrikar preferring to use the 90.000 cores he claimed 126 x Rafales would had cost, for MKIs and Tejas instead.
So the budget was there, but it always was clear that it will be a costly deal, since the competition was increased and we also asked more in return than ever before.

But at the end, costs were not the reason for the deadlock or the cancellation.

 

[Sancho]

CFT add range but add drag and reduce agility.

No they don't, they add weight which can't be jettisoned, but the drag will remain the same, while RCS will be reduced and the number of weapon stations increased.

And F18 B3 might suffer from less flight performance compared to a clean Rafale, but can carry more weapons, because of freed hardpoints and offer less radar reflections from large tanks.

Rafales CFTs can't offer the same advantages, since the prototypes had lower capacity than the external fuel tanks, that's why they only would make sense to add more range, than it already have, which however nobody needs. So even a stealthy Rafale in future, would need shaped external tanks, in addition to CFTs + EW improvements.

 

[abingdonboy]

Rafale C was available for export since its first flight.
See F35 : it was even sold before !
See how lucky are the Dutch having baught an affordable, agile and supercruising powerpoint F35 : 85 on the agenda. With the same budget they will finally have 37 stealthy big goose


UAE : you don't know your best ennemy history :
UAE choose not to purchase Rafale in 2011. Rafale F3 was already released in mid 2008.

Just to give you a cultural varnish about rafale :

Previous Rafale standards contents

• LF1 standard (2000/05/01)
  • R550 Magic 2
• F1 standard (2001/12/01)
  • 30M791 gun A2A modes
  • Mica EM
  • SPECTRA
• F2.1 standard (2005/12/01)
  • Hadrware update
  • MDPU
  • MIDS-Link16
  • Upgraded SPECTRA
  • OSF
  • Sensor fusion
  • SCALP
  • MICA-IR
• F2.2 standard (01/06/2006)
  • SBU-38
  • Upgraded SPECTRA
  • Obsolescences updates
• F3.0 standard (01/07/2008)
  • Hardware update
  • Long range MICA-IR modes
  • High resolution Radar MAP
  • Upgraded IFF
  • SLPRM V4-2
• F3.1 standard (2009/06/01)
  • Common F3 software for retrofited F2 and F3-O aircrafts
• F3.2 standard (2010/03/01)
  • Full LGB capability
  • Damocles-MP
  • GBU-12/22
  • SBU-64
  • 30M791 gun A2G modes
  • AM39 block 2 mod 2
  • ASMP-A
  • AREOS recce pod
• F3.3 standard (2012/01/01)
  • MIDS-Link16 upgrade
  • RBE-2 AESA
  • OSF-IT
  • DDM-NG
  • New MFD
  • Improved HUD transparancy
  • Upgraded IFF
• F3.3' standard (2013/05/01)
  • GBU-24
  • AESA antenna compatibility with tranche 1, 2, 3 aircrafts
• F3.4+ standard (2014/12/01)
  • MGRS format GPS data input
  • Updated HUD safety symbology and warning
  • New take off abortion warning (max brake energy capability)
  • Real time ground following mode switch (radar-digital mapping)
• F3R standard (2018/10/01)
  • Meteor
  • Talios LDP
  • AGCAS
  • IFF mode 5/S
  • Link 16 upgrade
  • RBE-2 PESA upgrade
  • SPECTRA upgrade
  • AREOS pod upgrade
  • Full SBU-54 integration
  • AASM fuse programmation upgrade
  • GBU-16 integration
  • NARANG refueling pod

The SH18 block3 is so nice that its line will shut down in a few years.
Better AESA : just bigger antenna. But the plane is bigger ans less stealthy....
Better datalinks? prove it.
Better CFT ? : Rafale don't need it. It's lighter than SH but has longer legs without and better load capacity.
Better cockpit? : prove it.
LO weapons pod : only mock up for the moment. If you want Dassault can make the same in wood + polystyrene .
Better IRST ? : prove it. An IRST in the center external tanks ! what an idea....
Most reliable engine : why not.
Same engine than LCA. Probably not for a long time. Kaveri will reborn.
Lowest cost operations ? : prove it. Beeing heavier I have a doubt....
able to deploy perhaps the widest range of weapons ever integrated on a fighter : probably.



Reply from F-18SH thread:

To believe the Dutch would buy 85 F-35 was always silly, they don't need more than 30, 30-40 are perfectly fine for countries the size of Belgium, Netherland. They thought they would replace 1 for 1 the F-16 but they realized it's overkill and will make unneeded spending. Belgium and Netherlands are notorious for underutilization of their F-16 fleets.

Funny thing is F-35 outsold already and outdelivered the Rafale even before FOC. UAE was indeed asked to fund some F3+ version with better AESA and others since they found the Block 60 was better and did the job at a cheaper rate.

To believe the SH line will close is also silly, there are well over 500+ SH in USN orders alone and many of them will undergo Block 3 SLEP. Boeing can keep the line open for another few years without international orders as well. Kuwait order will help followed by a Canadian order which is still more than possible.

As for SH Block 3 rcs, should be better than Rafale
CFTs add more range
Better cockpit: by far, Large panel displays will make life easy
LO weapons pod: already tested long time ago on the SH (I saw a pic of Dassault trying to copy this for Rafale, may they should indeed make some from wood to start with)
IRST is slated to go on the airframe itself
F414 remains unmatched in flight hours vs incidents, probably a sqd of SH flies more combat sorties in a month than all Rafales combined in a year. Which we know isn't much since Rafale availability is less than 50%
F414 orders for LCA mk-2 are confirmed and the deal is done so those engines for MK-2 have already started arriving. As for Kaveri, can only be on LCA mk-3. It first has to undergo extensive testing on one of the IOC LCAs. GE is also in a strong position to work on the AMCA.

http://www.businessinsider.com/price-military-aircraft-per-flight-hour-2016-8?IR=T#fa-18f-8

SH costs per flight hr are between $10-11K and it has remained consistent for over a decade.

SH Block 3 is a formidable contender against the Rafale

LO weapon pods haven’t been ordered by anyone nor have they been fully certified by Boeing, they were another example of “fancy but unproven” tech offered to India that has yet to find any actual real world applications.

USN is ordering BLK.3 without them so guess what, IAF would have to foot the bill if they wanted them. This is becoming a pretty typical American sales format for India, they entice the buyers and media with very attractive offers and shiny toys but when you dig into the details you find that most of the above are merely unfunded options that the user would have to pay for separately. IN learnt this with P-8I.

The “silent hornet” that Boeing showcased under MMRCA remains a paper airplane that not one user has opted for whereas DA has operationalised every capability it showcased and gone beyond even that.

 

[BON PLAN]

No they don't, they add weight which can't be jettisoned, but the drag will remain the same, while RCS will be reduced and the number of weapon stations increased.

And F18 B3 might suffer from less flight performance compared to a clean Rafale, but can carry more weapons, because of freed hardpoints and offer less radar reflections from large tanks.

Rafales CFTs can't offer the same advantages, since the prototypes had lower capacity than the external fuel tanks, that's why they only would make sense to add more range, than it already have, which however nobody needs. So even a stealthy Rafale in future, would need shaped external tanks, in addition to CFTs + EW improvements.

NO,
CFT add drag and reduce agility. It's the case on F16, F15 and will be the case on SH. Just have a look at : they are never so sharpened than the rest of the frame.

YES,
They are better for RCS than a classical cylindrical external tank (but why not studied external tanks shaped as a SCALP ?)

SH 3 better load than Rafale ? Rafale actual load is 9.5Tons. Actual..... the future is fully open.

CFT studied for Rafale were 1150 liters. What about SH 3 ones?

 

[Immanuel]

LO weapon pods haven’t been ordered by anyone nor have they been fully certified by Boeing, they were another example of “fancy but unproven” tech offered to India that has yet to find any actual real world applications.

USN is ordering BLK.3 without them so guess what, IAF would have to foot the bill if they wanted them. This is becoming a pretty typical American sales format for India, they entice the buyers and media with very attractive offers and shiny toys but when you dig into the details you find that most of the above are merely unfunded options that the user would have to pay for separately. IN learnt this with P-8I.

The “silent hornet” that Boeing showcased under MMRCA remains a paper airplane that not one user has opted for whereas DA has operationalised every capability it showcased and gone beyond even that.

Well the Stealth pods have been tested as far back as 2013 by Boeing. The SH like any capable 4.5 gen aircraft is offered with plenty of options. It's not like we didn't pay for extensive basic upgrades on the Rafale which include Israeli helmets and what not. So please save the BS, most of SH Block 3 upgrades are well funded and will be impemented over 80 brand new Block SH's over 2018-2022.

P-8I did bring extensive options as well, we added options (like the long range A2A radar, something the US P-8s don't have) on it and plenty of Indian avionics, the Navy has no issues with it and is pretty happy with them, heck there is a plan to have another 12-24 over the next decade.

As for operationalizing capability, even a block-2 SH runs circles around the Rafale, let's not even begin to compare the wide weapon delivery choice or proven AESA which has been operational for over a decade. While the Rafale lacks even a basic Anti radiation missile. Combine that with proven consistent costs and combat availability in comparison you'll find the Rafale is a hanger queen even in the French AF.

 

[Immanuel]

NO,
CFT add drag and reduce agility. It's the case on F16, F15 and will be the case on SH. Just have a look at : they are never so sharpened than the rest of the frame.

YES,
They are better for RCS than a classical cylindrical external tank (but why not studied external tanks shaped as a SCALP ?)

SH 3 better load than Rafale ? Rafale actual load is 9.5Tons. Actual..... the future is fully open.

CFT studied for Rafale were 1150 liters. What about SH 3 ones?

The tanks have a combined fuel capacity of 1,600kg (3,500lb), do not increase the aircraft’s subsonic drag, and increase transonic drag only equivalent to carrying an external centreline tank. With some internal fuel system plumbing changes the CFTs were designed to be retrofittable to existing aircraft.
http://australianaviation.com.au/20...longer-legs-as-us-navy-funds-conformal-tanks/

There is no subsonic drag penalty while having extended range over a 120NM.

A useful weight of 9.5 Tons on Rafale is nice but the SH Block 3 can carry over 8 tons while being cheaper and having lower operational costs, wider weapons choice from the get go.

 

[Armand2REP]

Well the Stealth pods have been tested as far back as 2013 by Boeing. The SH like any capable 4.5 gen aircraft is offered with plenty of options. It's not like we didn't pay for extensive basic upgrades on the Rafale which include Israeli helmets and what not. So please save the BS, most of SH Block 3 upgrades are well funded and will be impemented over 80 brand new Block SH's over 2018-2022.

P-8I did bring extensive options as well, we added options (like the long range A2A radar, something the US P-8s don't have) on it and plenty of Indian avionics, the Navy has no issues with it and is pretty happy with them, heck there is a plan to have another 12-24 over the next decade.

As for operationalizing capability, even a block-2 SH runs circles around the Rafale, let's not even begin to compare the wide weapon delivery choice or proven AESA which has been operational for over a decade. While the Rafale lacks even a basic Anti radiation missile. Combine that with proven consistent costs and combat availability in comparison you'll find the Rafale is a hanger queen even in the French AF.

If the SH was as good as you say it is you would think it would have more export success, especially considering it is cheaper and has the American lobby behind it. The Australians were the only export and they were rather embarrassed at Red Flag this year.

 

[Immanuel]

If the SH was as good as you say it is you would think it would have more export success, especially considering it is cheaper and has the American lobby behind it. The Australians were the only export and they were rather embarrassed at Red Flag this year.

The SH could have had more exports if it wasn't for the F-35, I believe existing Hornet operators would have easily upgraded to the SH. The SH is still a bigger success than the Rafale since it has a significantly bigger order book, it's future well funded, it's capabilities consistently upgraded and it's weapon capabilties unmatched.

How were the Aussies embarrassed during Red Flag?

 

[Armand2REP]

The SH could have had more exports if it wasn't for the F-35, I believe existing Hornet operators would have easily upgraded to the SH. The SH is still a bigger success than the Rafale since it has a significantly bigger order book, it's future well funded, it's capabilities consistently upgraded and it's weapon capabilties unmatched.

How were the Aussies embarrassed during Red Flag?

The Rafale could have had more exports if it wasn't for the F-35. It goes both ways. The Rafale is nearing a 50/50 export ratio, the SH is like 5%. The list of failed Super Hornet bids is longer than any other aircraft. It is what we call in the industry a flop.

How were the Aussies embarrassed during Red Flag?

 

[Immanuel]

Rafale also have plan to reduce RCS : it is called DEDIRA, is very secret and the results are known to be "very good"...
CFT add range but add drag and reduce agility. And you can't jettisoned it in case of. Rafale don't need it so far.
Better cockpit? size doesn't really pater. What's important is the quality of the data, and the sensors and fusion data of the french plane are very very good (see swiss eval, with PESA radar...)
LO weapon pod : too easy to make. A think that Dassault, able to developp the Hermes space shuttle, can do it easily.
IRST : for the moment no IRST on the SH frame. I know that the US are very keen to proomise everything. But the specialist is not Boeing, but LM.
F414 : indeed a very reliable engine. But no Rafale were lost due to engine failure....
And I'm not sure that india will link the future of one of its main plane with a US engine : too risky. Too fool with Trump as President.

Well with the new cockpit, the sensor fusion will be similar if not better than that on the F-35 thus leaving Rafale well behind.

As for future of Tejas with US engine is really silly discussion, the F414 for LCA MK2 is confirmed order of 99 engines and with some engines already delivered and GE in best position to power the AMCA. Also stop with the nonsense of US dependency. So far 11 C-17s, 12 C-130s, 12 P-8Is with potential order size of over 30, 28 Apaches, 15 Chinooks, M777, GE LM2500 engines on IAC-1 etc . Today we operate more US made platforms than French based platforms and so far so good.

Funny how snowflakes & SJWs poke at Trump, but so far 3 million jobs added in the US, ISIS all but fucked in terms of territory, trade deals being rediscussed, paris climate deal shitted upon, billions in new investments and billions in internationally held profits being repatriated, thousands of new jobs in manufacturing, Israel closer than ever, Iran deal being shitted upon, funny how Kim actually wants to meet him and discuss de-nuking. GDP at over 3%+, You bitches in the EU have to deal with fool for another 6 years, get used to him. By the end of his 8 year term, the EU assholes will be thoroughly fucked. While the EU elite in France, Germany, Belgium etc. can sit in thier elite bubble, you'll be lucky if majority of the EU doesn't collapse under it's own bureacratic weight by the end of his term. EU should focus on getting it's head out of it's ass instead of focusing on someone who has actually done plenty for his own country, a role he was elected for. He is on any given day a better President than any of these socialist, globalist pigs in the EU.

 

[BON PLAN]

Funny how snowflakes & SJWs poke at Trump, but so far 3 million jobs added in the US, ISIS all but fucked in terms of territory, trade deals being rediscussed, paris climate deal shitted upon, billions in new investments and billions in internationally held profits being repatriated, thousands of new jobs in manufacturing, Israel closer than ever, Iran deal being shitted upon, funny how Kim actually wants to meet him and discuss de-nuking. GDP at over 3%+, You bitches in the EU have to deal with fool for another 6 years, get used to him. By the end of his 8 year term, the EU assholes will be thoroughly fucked. While the EU elite in France, Germany, Belgium etc. can sit in thier elite bubble, you'll be lucky if majority of the EU doesn't collapse under it's own bureacratic weight by the end of his term. EU should focus on getting it's head out of it's ass instead of focusing on someone who has actually done plenty for his own country, a role he was elected for. He is on any given day a better President than any of these socialist, globalist pigs in the EU.

YOU ARE BUGGING AGAIN.

Link with SH18? none.

 

[BON PLAN]

I'm very pleased to confirm you all that the 12 Rafale follow on order for Qatar is now effective.

http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/qatar---option-for-12-rafale-becomes-effective.html

And don't forget the 36 new options with it !

I'm sure some old friends will appreciate.... @Immanuel @smestarz ...