Kaveri Engine

[Bhoot Pishach]

Finally some good new coming in....

Indian Rare Earths Limited has developed a formulation for Yttrium Stabilized Zirconia & Lanthanum Zirconate, which has been used to create bi-layer thermal barrier coatings (LZ over YSZ) for jet engine parts. Test material has already been sent to HAL. Results are encouraging.



Slowly but surely all the pieces for creating a flight worthy low-bypass turbofan (jet engine) are coming together. Obviously, the usual 'Indian style' hurdles remain (now, don't ask me to elaborate), but for the first time in years something might just come of it.

 

[lcafanboy]

300000000000000000000000000

 

[lcafanboy]

Where is EPE engine? I only see F414-G400. I don't see EPE anywhere.

Also, as I said, why USA is not delivering F414 to India? Isn't it delivered according to order date? If India orders engines, it has to be delivered before delivering to customers who order it after India. USA has no business in peeping about Indian development of MWF or AMCA. It is purely commercial transaction without any further linkages. Not delivering it raises question about the order itself - whether there was an order for 100 F414 at all?

Till date confirmed order for only 8 GE-F414 engines have been placed of which at least 2 confirmed have been been delivered if not all....
Yes US is unreliable and it's better we have our own Jet engine even if hot section is delivered by snecma. France is Reliable and if Rafale deal goes through snecma will setup plant in India so it will be as good as Indian....

 

[Vijyes]

Till date confirmed order for only 8 GE-F414 engines have been placed of which at least 2 confirmed have been been delivered if not all....
Yes US is unreliable and it's better we have our own Jet engine even if hot section is delivered by snecma. France is Reliable and if Rafale deal goes through snecma will setup plant in India so it will be as good as Indian....

France giving M88 appears unlikely. M88 is the latest generation of engines with France. Giving such a Technology is unlikely. We have to go on our own.

 

[lcafanboy]

France giving M88 appears unlikely. M88 is the latest generation of engines with France. Giving such a Technology is unlikely. We have to go on our own.

I have clearly states that the hot core could be supplied by snecma, made in India in their India plant. No company will part with their golden egg laying goose called IPR but they can make it for us as vendor for for Kaveri engine. This will give us our very own advance contemprory Jet engine. A win win situation. They keep IPR make money and we get our own advance Jet engine with no strings attached....

 

[Vijyes]

I have clearly states that the hot core could be supplied by snecma, made in India in their India plant. No company will part with their golden egg laying goose called IPR but they can make it for us as vendor for for Kaveri engine. This will give us our very own advance contemprory Jet engine. A win win situation. They keep IPR make money and we get our own advance Jet engine with no strings attached....

It can't be made in India either as that would put the Technology under government of India. Indian government can declare nationalisation or seize the asset under national security grounds and hence get the Technology. What France wants is to control the Technology not just get money for IPR. So, making the engine part in India is also unlikely

 

[cyclops]

Finally some good new coming in....

Indian Rare Earths Limited has developed a formulation for Yttrium Stabilized Zirconia & Lanthanum Zirconate, which has been used to create bi-layer thermal barrier coatings (LZ over YSZ) for jet engine parts. Test material has already been sent to HAL. Results are encouraging.



Slowly but surely all the pieces for creating a flight worthy low-bypass turbofan (jet engine) are coming together. Obviously, the usual 'Indian style' hurdles remain (now, don't ask me to elaborate), but for the first time in years something might just come of it.

............................. ........

 

[lcafanboy]

It can't be made in India either as that would put the Technology under government of India. Indian government can declare nationalisation or seize the asset under national security grounds and hence get the Technology. What France wants is to control the Technology not just get money for IPR. So, making the engine part in India is also unlikely

Search Manohar parrikar signed up with snecma for jet engine plant in Goa India as a part of mmrca deal.
We will sign mmrca Rafale deal once France deliver offset for the first 36 Rafales which includes flight testing of Kaveri engine before first Rafale lands in India. We will be getting first Rafale this year and if Dassault wants large mmrca order then they have to test Kaveri engine and deliver this year itself.

 

[Vijyes]

Search Manohar parrikar signed up with snecma for jet engine plant in Goa India as a part of mmrca deal.
We will sign mmrca Rafale deal once France deliver offset for the first 36 Rafales which includes flight testing of Kaveri engine before first Rafale lands in India. We will be getting first Rafale this year and if Dassault wants large mmrca order then they have to test Kaveri engine and deliver this year itself.

Kaberi engine will be made in India by Indian companies, not Snecma. Kaveri engine can't simply be fitted with M88 core. M88 is a small engine whereas Kaveri is bigger. Also, the mechanics are different.

Also, the goa plant for M88 appears to be suspect. Do you have real information that Snecma will make M88 in India? Or is it wishful thinking?

 

[lcafanboy]

Kaberi engine will be made in India by Indian companies, not Snecma. Kaveri engine can't simply be fitted with M88 core. M88 is a small engine whereas Kaveri is bigger. Also, the mechanics are different.

Also, the goa plant for M88 appears to be suspect. Do you have real information that Snecma will make M88 in India? Or is it wishful thinking?

Nagpur DRAL plant too was wishful thinking but Dassault has already started producing aircraft parts and falcon jets will be produced. We still have not signed mmrca deal so how would they setup plant in Goa. Once deal is signed even Thales will move in India along with snecma. But before signing snecma has to deliver certified Kaveri engine with m88 core. Only then they will get larger order which could be more than 200 fighters. So a lot is on stake for Dassault and France...

 

[patriots]

Nagpur DRAL plant too was wishful thinking but Dassault has already started producing aircraft parts and falcon jets will be produced. We still have not signed mmrca deal so how would they setup plant in Goa. Once deal is signed even Thales will move in India along with snecma. But before signing snecma has to deliver certified Kaveri engine with m88 core. Only then they will get larger order which could be more than 200 fighters. So a lot is on stake for Dassault and France...

Bhai....Saurav Jha...says...scema....asked more money.....
So no development there and India is going for another development with 110kn...
And Kaveri may be used in drones

 

[Vijyes]

Nagpur DRAL plant too was wishful thinking but Dassault has already started producing aircraft parts and falcon jets will be produced. We still have not signed mmrca deal so how would they setup plant in Goa. Once deal is signed even Thales will move in India along with snecma. But before signing snecma has to deliver certified Kaveri engine with m88 core. Only then they will get larger order which could be more than 200 fighters. So a lot is on stake for Dassault and France...

Again, mistaking DRAL for engine plant is absurd. The Technology to make planes is already in India as seen in Su30 or Tejas. Also, it is a relatively simple Technology. Making engine is quite hard and that is much more critical Technology than making plane parts.

I never said DRAL is wishful thinking as such cheap Technology will be easily given. But giving jet engine Technology is another thing.

Kaveri can't have M88 core. You can shout as much as you want. But it is like placing a car engine in a truck. M88 is small qnd Kaveri is big. You either get Kaveri or M88. M88 core in Kaveri is absurd even theoretically.

As I said, Kaveri is working but just small for Tejas. Even DRDO chief uas accepted that Kaveri works but is insufficient thrust for tejas. But the thrust needs for Rafale is 85kN and Kaveri can give 78-81kN which makes it suitable for Rafale. Since France is unlikely to give M88, Kaveri in Rafale is the only logical option. That is how it will work.

You just have an inferiority complex because of which you live in denial and refuse to accept that India can make Kaveri work without France and then use it in Rafale. You should get rid of this notion first

 

[Shakti Malik]

Bhai....Saurav Jha...says...scema....asked more money.....
So no development there and India is going for another development with 110kn...
And Kaveri may be used in drones

Can you please provide source where Sjha said it. Thanks

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[SanjeevM]

I have clearly states that the hot core could be supplied by snecma, made in India in their India plant. No company will part with their golden egg laying goose called IPR but they can make it for us as vendor for for Kaveri engine. This will give us our very own advance contemprory Jet engine. A win win situation. They keep IPR make money and we get our own advance Jet engine with no strings attached....

I agree. Even if the core is supplied by Franch, we will be paying 20% of engine cost to France. It will be better than paying 100% to GE. If the engine is made in India, on large orders, the cost of engine may come down. Provided the performance of Indigenous Engine with French core is same or better than GE engine. No compromise on quality.

 

[patriots]

Can you please provide source where Sjha said it. Thanks

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Just go......some pages .....bbackward you will find...............

 

[sathya]

Nagpur DRAL plant too was wishful thinking but Dassault has already started producing aircraft parts and falcon jets will be produced. We still have not signed mmrca deal so how would they setup plant in Goa. Once deal is signed even Thales will move in India along with snecma. But before signing snecma has to deliver certified Kaveri engine with m88 core. Only then they will get larger order which could be more than 200 fighters. So a lot is on stake for Dassault and France...

I am also not sure of the current position, but rafale 36, offset included certification and mating of Kaveri with Tejas I think.
But not sure it is new high powered engine in the class of 90KN

Then comes V1 of Safran Kaveri good enough for Mk1A with M88 core and rafale.
V2 that good enough for mk2.

@BON PLAN can you elaborate?

 

[Vijyes]

DRDO has been looking to collaborate with a technology partner for a jet engine and was in talks with Safran Aircraft Engine. What is the update on that? Will you continue to work on the Kaveri engine or develop a new one?

The Kaveri engine, as a technology, is developed. The power of the engine, within the present constraints, is not sufficient for the current requirements of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). We have a roadmap for aircraft development in the country, which also requires development of high-power engines suitable for these aircrafts. For this, we are looking for partners who can join hands with us in the development of high-power jet engine. I will not name any particular company right now because we are still at a discussion stage.

http://forceindia.net/interview/sec...development-organisation-dr-g-satheesh-reddy/

So, as suspected, Kaveri engine has been developed. It is just that it has lesser thrust than needed for current version of LCA. The LCA planned in 1996-1998 had lower weight but as design matured, it added weight. Hence Kaveri is not fit.

Since the technology has been developed, it only makes sense to use it in Rafale made in India. The 75kN thrust requirement of Rafale makes it a perfect candidate for Kaveri. Rafale has also been fit by 78kN f404 engine in its development trials and hence has also proven it's ability to fit another engine other than M88.

 

[Shekhar Singh]

A good understanding of Kaveri problems.

 

[Shekhar Singh]

DRDO has been looking to collaborate with a technology partner for a jet engine and was in talks with Safran Aircraft Engine. What is the update on that? Will you continue to work on the Kaveri engine or develop a new one?

The Kaveri engine, as a technology, is developed. The power of the engine, within the present constraints, is not sufficient for the current requirements of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). We have a roadmap for aircraft development in the country, which also requires development of high-power engines suitable for these aircrafts. For this, we are looking for partners who can join hands with us in the development of high-power jet engine. I will not name any particular company right now because we are still at a discussion stage.

http://forceindia.net/interview/sec...development-organisation-dr-g-satheesh-reddy/

So, as suspected, Kaveri engine has been developed. It is just that it has lesser thrust than needed for current version of LCA. The LCA planned in 1996-1998 had lower weight but as design matured, it added weight. Hence Kaveri is not fit.

Since the technology has been developed, it only makes sense to use it in Rafale made in India. The 75kN thrust requirement of Rafale makes it a perfect candidate for Kaveri. Rafale has also been fit by 78kN f404 engine in its development trials and hence has also proven it's ability to fit another engine other than M88.

It will be easy to fit kaveri into Rafale as there is huge weight difference between M88 and kaveri

 

[Vijyes]

It will be easy to fit kaveri into Rafale as there is huge weight difference between M88 and kaveri

I think you meant to say - It will NOT be easy to fit kaveri into Rafale as there is huge weight difference between M88 and kaveri

I have mentioned how F404 was fit into Rafale during development trials as M88 engine was not yet ready. Kaveri weighs similar to F404. So, I see no issue