Kaveri Engine
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cyclops
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I don't think French media or anything from a French pov can be trusted.
Lets wait for a yearly report by DRDO or ADA, we'll know the progress of the Kaveri then.
Fingers crossed.
rone
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It just a publicity stunt although Kaveri it self first designed with help of safran it was easy to put m88 core becoz kabani core and m88 lot more in common yes there will be chance first pv of mk1a will fly with m88 Kaveri but we still won't get tech for m88 core
lcafanboy
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L'avion de combat indien Tejas bientôt propulsé par le moteur M88 du Rafale ?
Par Michel CABIROL | 26/02/2018, 6:56 | 227 mots
La prochaine visite d'Emmanuel Macron en Inde pourrait relancer la coopération entre Safran et l'Inde pour motoriser l'avion de combat léger, le Tejas. (Crédits : © Regis Duvignau / Reuters)
Safran et l'Inde seraient près de signer un partenariat pour développer un moteur pour l'avion de combat léguer Tejas à partir du M88 qui motorise le Rafale.
Le moteur M88 bientôt à bord du Tejas? C'est dans le domaine du possible même si avec l'Inde la prudence est toujours de rigueur. Selon nos informations, les négociations entre Safran, soutenu par l'Etat français, et l'Inde (plus précisément le DRDO -Defence Research and Development Organisation) sont en très bonne voie pour motoriser l'avion de combat léger indien (LCA) avec le M88 dans le cadre du programme Kaveri qui doit être ressuscité. Elles pourraient prochainement aboutir et ce nouveau partenariat franco-indien pourrait faire l'objet d'une annonce lors du voyage d'Emmanuel Macron en Inde, le 10 mars prochain.
Motorisé de façon transitoire par General Electric (F404 F2J3), New Delhi souhaitait à l'origine développer un moteur indien. Mais les déboires dans le développement du Kaveri, qui n'a pas répondu aux besoins exprimés, a entraîné un abandon en 2014. Depuis 2016, Safran est à nouveau à la manœuvre pour proposer le M88 dans le cadre d'un transfert de technologies en vue de motoriser le Tejas ("glorieux" en sanskrit) dans la cadre du "Make in India". Cet avion de combat a été lancé dans les années 1980 par New Delhi, puis le design de l'appareil a été arrêté dans les années 1990. Enfin, le premier prototype TD-1 a effectué son premier vol le 4 janvier 2001. Le Tejas a été commande à 123 exemplaires.
The Indian fighting aircraft Tejas soon powered by the M88 engine Rafale?
Saffron and India are close to signing a partnership to develop an engine for the combat aircraft bequeath Tejas from the M88 which powers the Rafale.
The M88 engine soon aboard the Tejas? It is in the realm of the possible even if with India the prudence is always de rigueur. According to our information, the negotiations between Safran, supported by the French State, and India (more specifically DRDO -Defence Research and Development Organization) are well on their way to power the Indian light combat aircraft (LCA) with the M88 as part of the Kaveri program that needs to be resurrected. They could soon succeed and this new Franco-Indian partnership could be the subject of an announcement during Emmanuel Macron's trip to India on March 10th.
Transiently powered by General Electric (F404 F2J3), New Delhi originally wanted to develop an Indian engine. But the setbacks in the development of the Kaveri, which did not meet the needs expressed, led to an abandonment in 2014. Since 2016, Safran is again at the forefront of proposing the M88 as part of a technology transfer in motorized Tejas ("glorious" in Sanskrit) as part of "Make in India". This fighter was launched in the 1980s by New Delhi, then the design of the aircraft was stopped in the 1990s. Finally, the first prototype TD-1 made its first flight on January 4, 2001. The Tejas was ordered to 123 copies.
==============================================================================
"Safran aura le contrôle de Zodiac Aerospace début 2018" (Philippe Petitcolin, DG de Safran)
Sur le Rafale, avez-vous des espoirs d'augmenter la poussée du moteur ?
Nous n'avons pas eu de discussions à ce sujet avec la DGA (direction générale de l'armement), l'armée de l'air et la marine, qui sont les utilisateurs du Rafale. A titre personnel, je milite pour une augmentation de la poussée du moteur M88 parce que je pense qu'à terme, l'avion en aura besoin. L'avion a grossi depuis son origine - ce qui est normal - mais le moteur est resté le même. Que le moteur augmente sa puissance paraitrait être une décision normale, mais c'est aux armées et à la DGA de la prendre. Le risque serait qu'on se rende compte un jour que le moteur n'est plus assez puissant par rapport à ce qu'on veut faire faire au Rafale, et Safran va se retrouver sous la pression alors que nous aurions tout le temps aujourd'hui de lancer cette évolution.
Pourquoi ne pas commencer par une petite augmentation de la poussée du M88 ?
La poussée du M88 peut effectivement passer de 7,5 tonnes à plus de 8 tonnes - entre 8 et 8,3 tonnes - sans toucher aux entrées d'air, donc sans toucher à l'avion, simplement en travaillant sur le moteur. Soit une augmentation d'une dizaine de pourcents. Au-delà, si la DGA et les armées souhaitent aller vers des gammes de puissance supérieures, de type 9 tonnes par exemple, la modernisation du moteur passerait par une modification plus structurelle du Rafale.
N'y a-t-il pas une crainte sur les bureaux d'études ?
Il y a effectivement un problème de maintien des compétences dans le domaine du militaire qu'il ne faut pas sous-estimer. Il est réel.
Un contrat export pourrait-il être le déclencheur de cette modernisation ?
C'est peut-être possible avec l'Inde et son moteur, le Kaveri. Aujourd'hui, le M88 est fiable et répond aux besoins. Pour les armées, c'est donc toujours difficile de mettre la priorité sur une telle évolution.
Où en êtes-vous sur le Patroller ? Pourquoi ne pas le proposer à l'export ?
Le développement se passe bien. Je ne souhaite pas pour le moment que Safran le propose à l'export parce que je veux vraiment assurer une bonne fin de développement. L'armée de Terre nous a fait confiance, c'est à nous d'honorer cette confiance en livrant à l'heure le produit aux conditions que nous avons garanties. Tant que nous n'aurons pas atteint un niveau où j'estimerai que le produit est bien né, je n'autoriserai pas les équipes à faire de la prospection sur ce produit à l'export. Pourquoi ? Comme nous faisons appel plus ou moins aux mêmes équipes, je veux vraiment qu'elles se concentrent totalement sur la réalisation du contrat que nous avons signé. Bien sûr, je serais ravi d'avoir des commandes export.
"Safran will have control of Zodiac Aerospace early 2018" (Philippe Petitcolin, CEO of Safran)
On the Rafale, do you have any hopes of increasing engine thrust?
We have not had any discussions on this subject with the DGA (Directorate General of Armament), the Air Force and the Navy, which are the users of the Rafale. On a personal note, I am arguing for an increase in the thrust of the M88 engine because I think that eventually the plane will need it. The plane has grown from its origin - which is normal - but the engine has remained the same. That the engine increases its power would seem to be a normal decision, but it is up to the armies and the DGA to take it. The risk is that we realize one day that the engine is not powerful enough compared to what we want to do Rafale, and Safran will be under pressure when we have all the time today to launch this evolution.
Why not start with a small increase in the thrust of the M88?
The thrust of the M88 can actually go from 7.5 tons to more than 8 tons - between 8 and 8.3 tons - without touching the air intakes, so without touching the plane, simply by working on the engine. An increase of about ten percent. Beyond that, if the DGA and the armies wish to move towards higher power ranges, such as 9 tonnes, the modernization of the engine would require a more structural modification of the Rafale.
Is there not a fear on the design offices?
There is indeed a problem of maintenance of skills in the military field that should not be underestimated. He is real.
Could an export contract be the trigger for this modernization?
It may be possible with India and its engine, the Kaveri. Today, the M88 is reliable and meets the needs. For armies, it is always difficult to prioritize such an evolution.
Where are you on the Patroller? Why not offer it for export?
The development is going well. I do not wish at the moment that Safran proposes it for export because I really want to ensure a good end of development. The Army has trusted us, it is up to us to honor this confidence by delivering the product on time to the conditions we have guaranteed. As long as we have not reached a level where I estimate that the product is well born, I will not allow teams to explore this product for export. Why ? Since we are using more or less the same teams, I really want them to focus totally on completing the contract we signed. Of course, I would love to have export orders.
Par Michel CABIROL | 26/02/2018, 6:56 | 227 mots
La prochaine visite d'Emmanuel Macron en Inde pourrait relancer la coopération entre Safran et l'Inde pour motoriser l'avion de combat léger, le Tejas. (Crédits : © Regis Duvignau / Reuters)
Safran et l'Inde seraient près de signer un partenariat pour développer un moteur pour l'avion de combat léguer Tejas à partir du M88 qui motorise le Rafale.
Le moteur M88 bientôt à bord du Tejas? C'est dans le domaine du possible même si avec l'Inde la prudence est toujours de rigueur. Selon nos informations, les négociations entre Safran, soutenu par l'Etat français, et l'Inde (plus précisément le DRDO -Defence Research and Development Organisation) sont en très bonne voie pour motoriser l'avion de combat léger indien (LCA) avec le M88 dans le cadre du programme Kaveri qui doit être ressuscité. Elles pourraient prochainement aboutir et ce nouveau partenariat franco-indien pourrait faire l'objet d'une annonce lors du voyage d'Emmanuel Macron en Inde, le 10 mars prochain.
Motorisé de façon transitoire par General Electric (F404 F2J3), New Delhi souhaitait à l'origine développer un moteur indien. Mais les déboires dans le développement du Kaveri, qui n'a pas répondu aux besoins exprimés, a entraîné un abandon en 2014. Depuis 2016, Safran est à nouveau à la manœuvre pour proposer le M88 dans le cadre d'un transfert de technologies en vue de motoriser le Tejas ("glorieux" en sanskrit) dans la cadre du "Make in India". Cet avion de combat a été lancé dans les années 1980 par New Delhi, puis le design de l'appareil a été arrêté dans les années 1990. Enfin, le premier prototype TD-1 a effectué son premier vol le 4 janvier 2001. Le Tejas a été commande à 123 exemplaires.
The Indian fighting aircraft Tejas soon powered by the M88 engine Rafale?
Saffron and India are close to signing a partnership to develop an engine for the combat aircraft bequeath Tejas from the M88 which powers the Rafale.
The M88 engine soon aboard the Tejas? It is in the realm of the possible even if with India the prudence is always de rigueur. According to our information, the negotiations between Safran, supported by the French State, and India (more specifically DRDO -Defence Research and Development Organization) are well on their way to power the Indian light combat aircraft (LCA) with the M88 as part of the Kaveri program that needs to be resurrected. They could soon succeed and this new Franco-Indian partnership could be the subject of an announcement during Emmanuel Macron's trip to India on March 10th.
Transiently powered by General Electric (F404 F2J3), New Delhi originally wanted to develop an Indian engine. But the setbacks in the development of the Kaveri, which did not meet the needs expressed, led to an abandonment in 2014. Since 2016, Safran is again at the forefront of proposing the M88 as part of a technology transfer in motorized Tejas ("glorious" in Sanskrit) as part of "Make in India". This fighter was launched in the 1980s by New Delhi, then the design of the aircraft was stopped in the 1990s. Finally, the first prototype TD-1 made its first flight on January 4, 2001. The Tejas was ordered to 123 copies.
==============================================================================
"Safran aura le contrôle de Zodiac Aerospace début 2018" (Philippe Petitcolin, DG de Safran)
Sur le Rafale, avez-vous des espoirs d'augmenter la poussée du moteur ?
Nous n'avons pas eu de discussions à ce sujet avec la DGA (direction générale de l'armement), l'armée de l'air et la marine, qui sont les utilisateurs du Rafale. A titre personnel, je milite pour une augmentation de la poussée du moteur M88 parce que je pense qu'à terme, l'avion en aura besoin. L'avion a grossi depuis son origine - ce qui est normal - mais le moteur est resté le même. Que le moteur augmente sa puissance paraitrait être une décision normale, mais c'est aux armées et à la DGA de la prendre. Le risque serait qu'on se rende compte un jour que le moteur n'est plus assez puissant par rapport à ce qu'on veut faire faire au Rafale, et Safran va se retrouver sous la pression alors que nous aurions tout le temps aujourd'hui de lancer cette évolution.
Pourquoi ne pas commencer par une petite augmentation de la poussée du M88 ?
La poussée du M88 peut effectivement passer de 7,5 tonnes à plus de 8 tonnes - entre 8 et 8,3 tonnes - sans toucher aux entrées d'air, donc sans toucher à l'avion, simplement en travaillant sur le moteur. Soit une augmentation d'une dizaine de pourcents. Au-delà, si la DGA et les armées souhaitent aller vers des gammes de puissance supérieures, de type 9 tonnes par exemple, la modernisation du moteur passerait par une modification plus structurelle du Rafale.
N'y a-t-il pas une crainte sur les bureaux d'études ?
Il y a effectivement un problème de maintien des compétences dans le domaine du militaire qu'il ne faut pas sous-estimer. Il est réel.
Un contrat export pourrait-il être le déclencheur de cette modernisation ?
C'est peut-être possible avec l'Inde et son moteur, le Kaveri. Aujourd'hui, le M88 est fiable et répond aux besoins. Pour les armées, c'est donc toujours difficile de mettre la priorité sur une telle évolution.
Où en êtes-vous sur le Patroller ? Pourquoi ne pas le proposer à l'export ?
Le développement se passe bien. Je ne souhaite pas pour le moment que Safran le propose à l'export parce que je veux vraiment assurer une bonne fin de développement. L'armée de Terre nous a fait confiance, c'est à nous d'honorer cette confiance en livrant à l'heure le produit aux conditions que nous avons garanties. Tant que nous n'aurons pas atteint un niveau où j'estimerai que le produit est bien né, je n'autoriserai pas les équipes à faire de la prospection sur ce produit à l'export. Pourquoi ? Comme nous faisons appel plus ou moins aux mêmes équipes, je veux vraiment qu'elles se concentrent totalement sur la réalisation du contrat que nous avons signé. Bien sûr, je serais ravi d'avoir des commandes export.
"Safran will have control of Zodiac Aerospace early 2018" (Philippe Petitcolin, CEO of Safran)
On the Rafale, do you have any hopes of increasing engine thrust?
We have not had any discussions on this subject with the DGA (Directorate General of Armament), the Air Force and the Navy, which are the users of the Rafale. On a personal note, I am arguing for an increase in the thrust of the M88 engine because I think that eventually the plane will need it. The plane has grown from its origin - which is normal - but the engine has remained the same. That the engine increases its power would seem to be a normal decision, but it is up to the armies and the DGA to take it. The risk is that we realize one day that the engine is not powerful enough compared to what we want to do Rafale, and Safran will be under pressure when we have all the time today to launch this evolution.
Why not start with a small increase in the thrust of the M88?
The thrust of the M88 can actually go from 7.5 tons to more than 8 tons - between 8 and 8.3 tons - without touching the air intakes, so without touching the plane, simply by working on the engine. An increase of about ten percent. Beyond that, if the DGA and the armies wish to move towards higher power ranges, such as 9 tonnes, the modernization of the engine would require a more structural modification of the Rafale.
Is there not a fear on the design offices?
There is indeed a problem of maintenance of skills in the military field that should not be underestimated. He is real.
Could an export contract be the trigger for this modernization?
It may be possible with India and its engine, the Kaveri. Today, the M88 is reliable and meets the needs. For armies, it is always difficult to prioritize such an evolution.
Where are you on the Patroller? Why not offer it for export?
The development is going well. I do not wish at the moment that Safran proposes it for export because I really want to ensure a good end of development. The Army has trusted us, it is up to us to honor this confidence by delivering the product on time to the conditions we have guaranteed. As long as we have not reached a level where I estimate that the product is well born, I will not allow teams to explore this product for export. Why ? Since we are using more or less the same teams, I really want them to focus totally on completing the contract we signed. Of course, I would love to have export orders.
WolfPack86
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More Kalvari Class submarine for Indian Navy?
French President coming to India on a three-day visit, will be accompanied by CEOs of almost all top French defence firms. This includes the chief of Dassault Aviation Eric Trappier; Chairman and CEO of Naval Group Hervé Guillou; Thales CEO Patrice Caine; and Safran Group CEO Philippe Petitcolin.
Along with Rafales he eyes deal of at least three more Scorpene class submarine for Indian Navy.
And possibly a good news regarding Kaveri engine too is coming
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal
French President coming to India on a three-day visit, will be accompanied by CEOs of almost all top French defence firms. This includes the chief of Dassault Aviation Eric Trappier; Chairman and CEO of Naval Group Hervé Guillou; Thales CEO Patrice Caine; and Safran Group CEO Philippe Petitcolin.
Along with Rafales he eyes deal of at least three more Scorpene class submarine for Indian Navy.
And possibly a good news regarding Kaveri engine too is coming
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal
WolfPack86
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I hope Kaveri engine will be ready very soon.
Prashant12
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Kaveri jet engine ready to be signed.
Decayed performance at high altitude, insufficient thrust, excessive weight. Some of the problems the DRDO has reported on its Kaveri turbofan engine, a project in development for nearly three decades. It has now emerged that an unexpected ‘noise’ during high power trials has all but stalled the programme in what the team believes is its last mile. Detailed analyses over the last two years have failed to narrow down the nature of cause of the noise, and scientists are also unable to tell if the noise is an influence aerodynamic performance. What Livefist can confirm is that the phenomenon is only the latest in a series of complications that have bedeviled the Kaveri. The noise the five engines specimens make in high throttle regimes is a key issue being placed before France’s Snecma for the remaining path to certification. Apart from the noise in the high throttle spectrum, scientists have also been grappling with a flicker, indicating inconsistent combustion or fuel transmission, when the afterburners is engaged.
On Jan 3 this year, the Safran Group created and advertised for the new position of Director for the Kaveri engine programme.
The good news for the programme is that the DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri. Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines. Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manik mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.
There are important implications of the Snecma-DRDO partnership on the Kaveri engine. A Kaveri engine sporting potential commonality with the Snecma M88 could be compelling factor in how India chooses its next fighter jets, both for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. Those implications, at any rate, would be clearer only once the Kaveri proves itself at every level of performance and envelope. It’s useful to break down the state of play with the new Kaveri in the projected mix.
LCA Mk.1/1A: Currently powered by GE 404. Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri, with first integration aimed for by 2020.
Rafale: Powered by twin Snecma M88 turbofans.
LCA Mk.2: Two of eight GE F414-INS6 turbofan engines were delivered last month to keep the programme rolling. The future of the Mk.2, though, remains uncertain. If the modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri can be uprated enough to meet Mk.2 demands, it could change things. For the moment, this doesn’t appear to be on the cards.
IAF Single-Engine Fighter: Either the GE F414 (on the Gripen E) or the GE F110/Pratt&Whitney F100 (on the F-16).
Indian Navy Multirole Carrier Fighter: A toss-up, effectively, between the Snecma M88 and GE F414.
AMCA: Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri in twin engine configuration. But this remains in the air for the moment. There are other suitors, notably Boeing’s aggressive pitch that pushes the enhanced GE F414 supercruise capable engine for the AMCA, an engine family that Boeing’s Super Hornet shares with the Saab Gripen E.
GHATAK UCAV: DRDO/Snecma Kaveri modified for non-reheat stealth operations. The Government is clear at this stage that it doesn’t want a foreign powerplant on the sensitive programme.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...bofans-last-mile-problem-a-mystery-noise.html
Decayed performance at high altitude, insufficient thrust, excessive weight. Some of the problems the DRDO has reported on its Kaveri turbofan engine, a project in development for nearly three decades. It has now emerged that an unexpected ‘noise’ during high power trials has all but stalled the programme in what the team believes is its last mile. Detailed analyses over the last two years have failed to narrow down the nature of cause of the noise, and scientists are also unable to tell if the noise is an influence aerodynamic performance. What Livefist can confirm is that the phenomenon is only the latest in a series of complications that have bedeviled the Kaveri. The noise the five engines specimens make in high throttle regimes is a key issue being placed before France’s Snecma for the remaining path to certification. Apart from the noise in the high throttle spectrum, scientists have also been grappling with a flicker, indicating inconsistent combustion or fuel transmission, when the afterburners is engaged.
On Jan 3 this year, the Safran Group created and advertised for the new position of Director for the Kaveri engine programme.
The good news for the programme is that the DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri. Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines. Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manik mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.
There are important implications of the Snecma-DRDO partnership on the Kaveri engine. A Kaveri engine sporting potential commonality with the Snecma M88 could be compelling factor in how India chooses its next fighter jets, both for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. Those implications, at any rate, would be clearer only once the Kaveri proves itself at every level of performance and envelope. It’s useful to break down the state of play with the new Kaveri in the projected mix.
LCA Mk.1/1A: Currently powered by GE 404. Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri, with first integration aimed for by 2020.
Rafale: Powered by twin Snecma M88 turbofans.
LCA Mk.2: Two of eight GE F414-INS6 turbofan engines were delivered last month to keep the programme rolling. The future of the Mk.2, though, remains uncertain. If the modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri can be uprated enough to meet Mk.2 demands, it could change things. For the moment, this doesn’t appear to be on the cards.
IAF Single-Engine Fighter: Either the GE F414 (on the Gripen E) or the GE F110/Pratt&Whitney F100 (on the F-16).
Indian Navy Multirole Carrier Fighter: A toss-up, effectively, between the Snecma M88 and GE F414.
AMCA: Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri in twin engine configuration. But this remains in the air for the moment. There are other suitors, notably Boeing’s aggressive pitch that pushes the enhanced GE F414 supercruise capable engine for the AMCA, an engine family that Boeing’s Super Hornet shares with the Saab Gripen E.
GHATAK UCAV: DRDO/Snecma Kaveri modified for non-reheat stealth operations. The Government is clear at this stage that it doesn’t want a foreign powerplant on the sensitive programme.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...bofans-last-mile-problem-a-mystery-noise.html
Last edited:
HariPrasad-1
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The source does not mention dry thrust which is a very important parameter and MTOW of plane depends of dry thrust.
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Russia gave 100% ToT for Al31F engines to India. Russia may also have given ToT for WS13 and WS10 engines which were replicas of RD93 and Al31F engines respectively.
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I used to visit but not comment for some time.
100% ToT means that every single item is made from raw materials by India for Al31F engine in HAL Koraput. This includes blades, turbines and every nut and bolt.
http://www.hal-india.com/Sukhoi Engine Division Koraput/M__140
Read the product tab in the above link.
Russia has given us all the manufacturing technology to make the Al31F engine. Even RD33 and R29B engine were manufactured here.
MiG21 was made completely in India since 1970s and was not imported from Russia. Russian ToT extends to several decades
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I doubt that. You mean that even all Titanium parts are made in India? From raw-materials? I don't think that is possible. Yet.
smestarz
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Technically, why would India be signing anything about Kaveri?
Kaveri is Indian engine, and as per the requirement of Offset for the 36 planes, the French opted to provide help for Kaveri engine in lieu of the Offset, so in a way the IP should belong to India, so what deal are we we to sign? The French want to buy some Kaveri engines for their Rafales?
Kaveri is Indian engine, and as per the requirement of Offset for the 36 planes, the French opted to provide help for Kaveri engine in lieu of the Offset, so in a way the IP should belong to India, so what deal are we we to sign? The French want to buy some Kaveri engines for their Rafales?
Kaveri jet engine ready to be signed.
Decayed performance at high altitude, insufficient thrust, excessive weight. Some of the problems the DRDO has reported on its Kaveri turbofan engine, a project in development for nearly three decades. It has now emerged that an unexpected ‘noise’ during high power trials has all but stalled the programme in what the team believes is its last mile. Detailed analyses over the last two years have failed to narrow down the nature of cause of the noise, and scientists are also unable to tell if the noise is an influence aerodynamic performance. What Livefist can confirm is that the phenomenon is only the latest in a series of complications that have bedeviled the Kaveri. The noise the five engines specimens make in high throttle regimes is a key issue being placed before France’s Snecma for the remaining path to certification. Apart from the noise in the high throttle spectrum, scientists have also been grappling with a flicker, indicating inconsistent combustion or fuel transmission, when the afterburners is engaged.
On Jan 3 this year, the Safran Group created and advertised for the new position of Director for the Kaveri engine programme.
The good news for the programme is that the DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri. Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines. Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manik mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.
There are important implications of the Snecma-DRDO partnership on the Kaveri engine. A Kaveri engine sporting potential commonality with the Snecma M88 could be compelling factor in how India chooses its next fighter jets, both for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. Those implications, at any rate, would be clearer only once the Kaveri proves itself at every level of performance and envelope. It’s useful to break down the state of play with the new Kaveri in the projected mix.
LCA Mk.1/1A: Currently powered by GE 404. Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri, with first integration aimed for by 2020.
Rafale: Powered by twin Snecma M88 turbofans.
LCA Mk.2: Two of eight GE F414-INS6 turbofan engines were delivered last month to keep the programme rolling. The future of the Mk.2, though, remains uncertain. If the modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri can be uprated enough to meet Mk.2 demands, it could change things. For the moment, this doesn’t appear to be on the cards.
IAF Single-Engine Fighter: Either the GE F414 (on the Gripen E) or the GE F110/Pratt&Whitney F100 (on the F-16).
Indian Navy Multirole Carrier Fighter: A toss-up, effectively, between the Snecma M88 and GE F414.
AMCA: Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri in twin engine configuration. But this remains in the air for the moment. There are other suitors, notably Boeing’s aggressive pitch that pushes the enhanced GE F414 supercruise capable engine for the AMCA, an engine family that Boeing’s Super Hornet shares with the Saab Gripen E.
GHATAK UCAV: DRDO/Snecma Kaveri modified for non-reheat stealth operations. The Government is clear at this stage that it doesn’t want a foreign powerplant on the sensitive programme.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...bofans-last-mile-problem-a-mystery-noise.html
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Russia doesn't give out its SCB technology, no one does.
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Yes, titanium machining is quite easy. There is nothing much about it. It may take a slightly longer time than other metals but still, the technique is similar.
Let me show you blisk manufacturing:
That is not technology but raw material. Yes, the raw material may have to be imported. However, it is a part of the contract and is only enforced by trust. India can get raw material on its own too as and when needed as technology is in Indian hands
Russia is technically an ally of India. Russia did give technology for making RD33, RD25 engines for MiG21. India had made over 600 MiG 21 in 1970s-1980s completely in India. Russia also gave cryogenic engine to India for space launch vehicle for reverse engineering.
I am not sure if Al31F has SCB or has directionally solidified blades. It may be that Al41F has SCB while Al31F does not? Also, you are forgetting that the real reason for the strength is not just SCB but also Rhenium metal. I am not sure if India had rhenium access. The metal is too scarce.
Anyways, here is the official HAL statement that they already have SCB technology:
http://hal-india.com/Air Chief Calls/ND__85
Sire, the French will "invest" money as part of offset. Its not donation. If they invest, it means a partnership, which means a joint project and sharing IP rights. It will definitely need an agreement that will need to be negotiated.
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If you are capable of making all the spare parts for MKI then why do you keep running out of parts?
No technology transfer in the Su-30 spare parts deal
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...he-su-30-spare-parts-deal-117041101525_1.html
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The point here is that Kaveri is fully Indian engine with complete Indian manufacturing. India does not need money from France to make Kaveri. Also, France is incapable of using M88 core as the size of M88 is 27.5x139 inch diameter and length respectively whereas for Kaveri the dimensions are 35x154 inch. That is a serious size difference. So, unless you are suggesting that France will develop a new engine, it is meaningless to ask for French investment. If France develops a new engine for India, then the time taken will be 10-12 years. I have also pointed out several times that India is capable of making Al31F completely in India from raw material stage and the notion that India lacks blisk technology or metallurgy is absurd in the above post:
So, which investment are you expecting from France? Why?
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India has all the critical technology for MKI as ToT from Russia but there is a contractual obligation to buy some spares from Russian OEM. This is just as a symbol of trust towards Russia.
India can make all of these spare parts in India as the technology is not sophisticated. But doing so would void warranty from Russia. Russia gives warranty to the Su30 made from Russian approved technology transferred to India like future upgrade to Super Sukhoi with AL41F engine etc.
The reason India adheres to buying Russian spare parts is mainly to maintain trust and also to get warranty, not due to lack of technology.
PS: Radar of MKI is fully imported and all spare parts for it has to come from Russia. But all the source codes of Su30 is with India and hence India can integrate any radar as and when needed. So, even here, India is not dependent on Russia.
