Kaveri Engine

[AnantS]

even a 99% achivement engine is not an operational one.
the last 70 to 80% include flight tests, modifications, new flight tests... It cost a lot.

and don't imagine anyone will give you know how and know why for free

Kaveri did have flight tests. In IL 76. The problem with GTRE is 3 folds

1) Lacked Experience, hence its has taken so much time to develop a modern low bypass engine with FADEC . Still right now Specs of Kaveri Engine surpasses RD 33.

2) Lacks critical funding. the scale of funding is peanuts even when compared to China. hence for tests they had to rely too much on Russia fly testing. Making things extremely late. Because the lack of understanding of complexity involved in developing such technology and corresponding investments required, by the Politicos or Bureaucrats, GTRE's old demand of acquiring a flying test bed for Kaveri has been stonewalled repetitively. This may sound funny and perhaps shocking you, but alas, that's how R&D work gets treated here by illiterate bean counters.

3) Due to consistent apathy, there has been a lot of expensive attrition to other companies like GE from GTRE.

The 70-80% percent work entailed successful flights in IL 76. Meeting Dry thrust specifications: 52 Kn. The Wet Thrust is 81Kn, which is less than desired 90-95KN. Their demand of spare Mig 29 or Su for testing in actual fighter, has met with long stony silence. Hence other way was to create non after burning Kaveri and test it in UCAV.

My suspicion is Safran is just rehashing its old offer which was already junked by GTRE-DRDO. Thats is to replace Kabini core of Kaveri Engine with M88 core and owning IP rights on Kaveri. If this is the offer, India will reject again.

 

[tejas warrior]

My suspicion is Safran is just rehashing its old offer which was already junked by GTRE-DRDO. Thats is to replace Kabini core of Kaveri Engine with M88 core and owning IP rights on Kaveri. If this is the offer, India will reject again.

Exactly, to get Rafael deal they are doing all this.

REASON: F18 lobby seems to be getting upper hand showing engine similarities of GE414 with F18 and LCA MK2 & AMCA.

No country will share Engine technology.. take this granted.

 

[BON PLAN]

Kaveri did have flight tests. In IL 76. The problem with GTRE is 3 folds

1) Lacked Experience, hence its has taken so much time to develop a modern low bypass engine with FADEC . Still right now Specs of Kaveri Engine surpasses RD 33.

2) Lacks critical funding. the scale of funding is peanuts even when compared to China. hence for tests they had to rely too much on Russia fly testing. Making things extremely late. Because the lack of understanding of complexity involved in developing such technology and corresponding investments required, by the Politicos or Bureaucrats, GTRE's old demand of acquiring a flying test bed for Kaveri has been stonewalled repetitively. This may sound funny and perhaps shocking you, but alas, that's how R&D work gets treated here by illiterate bean counters.

3) Due to consistent apathy, there has been a lot of expensive attrition to other companies like GE from GTRE.

The 70-80% percent work entailed successful flights in IL 76. Meeting Dry thrust specifications: 52 Kn. The Wet Thrust is 81Kn, which is less than desired 90-95KN. Their demand of spare Mig 29 or Su for testing in actual fighter, has met with long stony silence. Hence other way was to create non after burning Kaveri and test it in UCAV.

My suspicion is Safran is just rehashing its old offer which was already junked by GTRE-DRDO. Thats is to replace Kabini core of Kaveri Engine with M88 core and owning IP rights on Kaveri. If this is the offer, India will reject again.

I've read a long moment ago that Kaveri failed during trials on high altitudes. So after correcting what's wrong, you have to made a new series of tests.

 

[BON PLAN]

Exactly, to get Rafael deal they are doing all this.

REASON: F18 lobby seems to be getting upper hand showing engine similarities of GE414 with F18 and LCA MK2 & AMCA.

No country will share Engine technology.. take this granted.

Not for free, it's sure.
I think France is the more interesting partner for that.
Why?
Because we are quite small, and next fighter can't be developped by France alone. Only a question of lack of funds.
Or we goes with the other european, but Eurofighter experience is bad, and the english or German will fight to take the lead... Or we goes with another partner, with an important market, and that it would be possible to build a strong partnership : India is perfect. France bringing 70% of the tech, India 70% of the market.

 

[AnantS]

I've read a long moment ago that Kaveri failed during trials on high altitudes. So after correcting what's wrong, you have to made a new series of tests.

Here is a video from year 2011, where Russians from Gromov Flight Research Institute, describes successful high altitude tests of GTRE Kaveri in the maiden flight itself. The failure you heard you described were from further long time back and were overcome sometime back. The problem is funding and sustained interest from Govt. As I said if timely test infrastructure and funding are not available, it becomes problem. Kaveri was targeted for LCA. When LCA's requirements itself has moved to higher thrust engine. Given limited budget, It did not make sense for GTRE to pursue Kaveri in its current form. So they are going to develop an non after burner version of Kaveri for UCAV. The current Kaveri is sufficient for such application. The other thing is they are going to develop 100 KN + engine for future AMCA.

I dont expect Safran to part its technology for free. The issue is even after giving money, she would not part with Hot Core ToT. Because its their bread and butter. Now if Safran establishes 100% owned, completely in sourced Jet Engine(ie all critical components are made in house roping GTRE,(not counting Indian Pvt sector as none of them has that capability)) manufacturing facility India, it maybe of interest. But doing jv with totally noob company like Reliance will not cut.

 

[shiphone]

please... respect the facts, less building-up in the brain...

During this test the Kaveri did well, generating 49.2 KiloNewtons (KN) of “dry thrust”, marginally less than its target of 51 KN. But there was a serious shortfall in “wet thrust”; the Kaveri generated just 70.4 KN, well short of the targeted 81 KN.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/12/kaveri-engine-to-fly-futuristic.html

and... 80kN class...

 

[Yumdoot]

I dont expect Safran to part its technology for free. The issue is even after giving money, she would not part with Hot Core ToT. Because its their bread and butter. Now if Safran establishes 100% owned, completely in sourced Jet Engine(ie all critical components are made in house roping GTRE,(not counting Indian Pvt sector as none of them has that capability)) manufacturing facility India, it maybe of interest. But doing jv with totally noob company like Reliance will not cut.

Problem is all with the Indian netalog, babus and military types and also some tech importers masquerading as scientists.

These people actually think that knowledge can be simply handed over if we pay the price and help amortize the R&D expenditure.

Someday India will pay the price for the idiocy of this set and the day after that these people will have to face the full wrath of the real India.

Until now only Russian have been faithful in transferring the agreed for tech. But even they are quite categorical in that they too do not see payments towards amortization as part ownership.

Its like saying the lender will own the company, in the context of the corporate world. Gha&ta.

 

[Yumdoot]

please...



http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/12/kaveri-engine-to-fly-futuristic.html

and... 80kN class...

You Chinese are lucky that IAF has since 2012 and even before that, fought for your needs inside India. Your dazzling achievements are surviving in the absence of competition.

 

[AnantS]

please...



http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/12/kaveri-engine-to-fly-futuristic.html

Thats 2012 article. The program completed in 2015. There are two sets of figures available open source. One which I quoted, other which you quote. However, what is agreed upon everywhere Kaveri did not meet its design goal in wet thrust. The engine was not sufficient to meet new Tejas demands.

 

[AnantS]

Problem is all with the Indian netalog, babus and military types and also some tech importers masquerading as scientists.

These people actually think that knowledge can be simply handed over if we pay the price and help amortize the R&D expenditure.

Someday India will pay the price for the idiocy of this set and the day after that these people will have to face the full wrath of the real India.

Until now only Russian have been faithful in transferring the agreed for tech. But even they are quite categorical in that they too do not see payments towards amortization as part ownership.

Its like saying the lender will own the company, in the context of the corporate world. Gha&ta.

Actually its Naive to think Russia transfers know why and know how. There is a lobby in India which favors 100% import because you very well know why. India has tried to break this jinx by allowing 100% FDI in defence(with some conditions ofcourse). Lets see how it pans out.

 

[AnantS]

Apart from future Kaveri versions for UCAV and AMCA. Kaveri Marine Gs Turbine has undergone successful tests in Indian Navy and is undergoing further development with backing from Indian Navy.

 

[shiphone]

simple...source please...LOL...

let's see how suddenly the well known '80kN class' became fancy '90-95KN.'

 

[AnantS]

@BON PLAN This article quite Lucidly explains why Kaveri was abandoned. What has been achieved till date. And confirmation that its going to be used for UCAV.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-theres-been-a-delay/articleshow/48282481.cms

 

[AnantS]

simple...source please...LOL...

let's see how suddenly the well known '80kN class' became fancy '90-95KN.'

Apart from you, nobody said that it became 90-95 KN. But then 10 cent trolls like you, cannot be expected to have any discussion per say. Google is your friend. But then Google is banned in your country Chila. Such is your low life. But maybe using Google might be one of the rare privileges you as 10 cent troll might be getting. Search on.

Eg This article in 2011 (< 2012) states 75 Kn was the Max thrust achieved. Its quite possible they might have been able to achieve 80Kn by 2015, but at the cost of Engine life, or some other issue which prevented them to declare success? The thrust required of Tejas has moved to 95 kn. Thats why GE 414 has been ordered for Mk 2.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/article1127075.ece

 

[shiphone]

You Chinese are lucky that IAF has since 2012 and even before that, fought for your needs inside India. Your dazzling achievements are surviving in the absence of competition.

oh? 'luck'...

your compatriot's show above well explained the reason...
that's the difference between doer/practitioner and big talker/day dreamer...

-------------
LOL...

 

[BON PLAN]

Apart from future Kaveri versions for UCAV and AMCA. Kaveri Marine Gs Turbine has undergone successful tests in Indian Navy and is undergoing further development with backing from Indian Navy.

Indeed.
A naval derivative will not suffer of high altitude problems. And it's a nice real time test bed.

 

[AnantS]

@shiphone Is being retard main qualification of being a 10 cent chini troll ? Whats so difficult to understand? And please do try to explain in simple lucid English. Your construction of sentences is horrible and makes no sense LOL

 

[AnantS]

Indeed.
A naval derivative will not suffer of high altitude problems. And it's a nice real time test bed.

but it has also undergone successful High altitude tests. Please refer to to the video as well as Hindu link in which I tagged you.

 

[ersakthivel]

@BON PLAN This article quite Lucidly explains why Kaveri was abandoned. What has been achieved till date. And confirmation that its going to be used for UCAV.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-theres-been-a-delay/articleshow/48282481.cms

Kaveri is not abandoned.

A tender for 20 engines was issued towards completing certification.

TIll now kaveri doesn't have SCB tech .

But DMRL has transferred a production scale SCB turbine blade tech facility to HAL,

SO kaveri will get better & it is already the main engine for UCAV AURA project.

What the french is offering is no revolutionary tech , this was an old GTRE-SNECMA 2007 time JV proposal which was nixed paradoxialy by IAF 's matheswaran stating that the proposed GTRE-Snecma JV for K-9 "wont allow GTRE to learn anything!!"

Snecma proposed to put their Eco core in KAveri * no deep TOT is expected,

 

[AnantS]

Kaveri is not abandoned.

A tender for 20 engines was issued towards completing certification.

TIll now kaveri doesn't have SCB tech .

But DMRL has transferred a production scale SCB turbine blade tech facility to HAL,

SO kaveri will get better & it is already the main engine for UCAV AURA project.

What the french is offering is no revolutionary tech , this was an old GTRE-SNECMA 2007 time JV proposal which was nixed paradoxialy by IAF 's matheswaran stating that the proposed GTRE-Snecma JV for K-9 "wont allow GTRE to learn anything!!"

Snecma proposed to put their Eco core in KAveri * no deep TOT is expected,

Well you just repeated the points I made. Kaveri has been abandoned officially as in reply given to Parliament. However, a new 80 KN class of Engine will be designed based on Kaveri under new name, for which tenders were released in past few months.

SNECMA offer as I said in my earlier posts, if its a rehash of old offer, is going to be rejected again.