Kaveri Engine

[A chauhan]

Most critisers of Kaveri are too concentrated on its technical details, such as lower thrust, higher weight, the cost and the delayed maiden flight, etc. They don't realize how much India has gained and has achieved from the project. The fact is India now has a team of engineers being able to develope indigenous advanced turbofan engines, that's important.

If Indian people, government and air force continue to support the project, the engineers will have the opportunity to improve their ability and skills via improving the engine, and I have no doubt they will do better in the next project because the experience has been accumulated.

If India doesn't give the engine a chance fitting on the plane to fly, just becasue it can not match the American one, the all effort India has made, and of course Rs 3000 crore India has invested in the project will be in vain.

This is a moment of great proud for us that India has developed her own Engine indigenously, now we can do R&D to gain more thrust, t/w etc. Now we have a true reasonable & appropriate opportunity to do experiments with Kaveri.Though Kaveri is not fit for Tejas but still it usable with other projects of DRDO...:icon_salut:

 

[ReneDad]

This is a moment of great proud for us that India has developed her own Engine indigenously, now we can do R&D to gain more thrust, t/w etc. Now we have a true reasonable & appropriate opportunity to do experiments with Kaveri.Though Kaveri is not fit for Tejas but still it usable with other projects of DRDO...:icon_salut:

And There also are commercial interests hidden behind Kaveri's success even if IAF still wants some F404s. If kaveri successfully passes its test on LCA, even if part of its performance is still a bit behind F404, American will have to:

1) offer a far better variant engine to counteract the advantage that Kaferi is a indigenous engine;
2) or cut of the price of F404;
3) and never dream making any sanction on F404's export to India if India does something making them uncomfortable.

and I guess even Russian may reconsider the price policy when they sell planes and engines to India.

 

[p2prada]

And There also are commercial interests hidden behind Kaveri's success even if IAF still wants some F404s. If kaveri successfully passes its test on LCA, even if part of its performance is still a bit behind F404, American will have to:

1) offer a far better variant engine to counteract the advantage that Kaferi is a indigenous engine;
2) or cut of the price of F404;
3) and never dream making any sanction on F404's export to India if India does something making them uncomfortable.

and I guess even Russian may reconsider the price policy when they sell planes and engines to India.

An RFP has been submitted by ADA for the GE F-414 and the EJ-200 engines. Both engines are in contention after IAF sent a new requirement for a heavier LCA and a 90KN thrust engine.

1) offer a far better variant engine to counteract the advantage that Kaferi is a indigenous engine;

IAF will not decide this without Ministry approval. Kaveri will be used unless it does not fit requirements.

The Naval version(for ship propulsion) of the Kaveri engine is ready.
Built for air force, Kaveri engine chosen by navy

 

[Rage]

Most critisers of Kaveri are too concentrated on its technical details, such as lower thrust, higher weight, the cost and the delayed maiden flight, etc. They don't realize how much India has gained and has achieved from the project. The fact is India now has a team of engineers being able to develope indigenous advanced turbofan engines, that's important.

If Indian people, government and air force continue to support the project, the engineers will have the opportunity to improve their ability and skills via improving the engine, and I have no doubt they will do better in the next project because the experience has been accumulated.

If India doesn't give the engine a chance fitting on the plane to fly, just becasue it can not match the American one, the all effort India has made, and of course Rs 3000 crore India has invested in the project will be in vain.

You are the first chinese member here that talks sense. Unlike the ******** of chinese members we have had in the past that turned a blind eye to facts and chose only to aver upon China's 'glorious might'. Congratulations! It'll be a pleasure to know you.


The 'Kaveri' has had a similar development trajectory to the WS-10A. Criticisms predicating upon technical and political difficulties have snagged the projects. One good fallout of the Kaveri project is that the DRDO has reportedly been able to develop single crystal blades, which represent a major technological achievement for engine development. Another interesting development has been the Full-Authority Digital Engine Control unit developed by the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) in Bangalore. Even more amusing is that the GTRE have been able to develop a marine gas turbine derivative of the GTX-35VS engine for ships. See:

domain-b.com : Breakthrough for GTRE scientists – develop marine version of the Kaveri engine


On paper, the Kaveri engine looks impressive: a low-bypass-ratio afterburning turbofan engine with six-stage core high-pressure compressor and variable inlet guide vanes, and a thrust-vectoring convergent-divergent variable nozzle nozzle to enhance the LCA's agility is dope to say the least. The challenge will be putting paper to practice. The Kaveri has failed its high-altitude tests in Russia in 004, and if a flat-rated, compatible in high-ambient temperatures widget is what we want, we'll have to get down serious with modifications to the bypass ratio.

 

[pavanvenkatesh]

Heres a wonderful attachment of kaveri engine details

It has details of details of components developed with pictures of testing and components

 

[Parashuram1]

And There also are commercial interests hidden behind Kaveri's success even if IAF still wants some F404s. If kaveri successfully passes its test on LCA, even if part of its performance is still a bit behind F404, American will have to:

1) offer a far better variant engine to counteract the advantage that Kaferi is a indigenous engine;
2) or cut of the price of F404;
3) and never dream making any sanction on F404's export to India if India does something making them uncomfortable.

and I guess even Russian may reconsider the price policy when they sell planes and engines to India.

I second you on that, and thank you for your positive comments despite being a Chinese. This is the true spirit of discussion that must be held by two neighboring countries rather than the forum wars that I observed on the Pakistani defense forum. I really appreciate your mature comments.

Infact, it is a big threat to the other exporters right now that both India and China has developed their own engines and with slight assistance in the future, they won't require engines from these foreign countries. It is a big concern for a lot of weapons exporters that both countries managed to develop a reasonably good engine despite being kept in isolation.

With the maturing of both Kaveri and WS-10 I assume that the future fifth generation fighters would not be carrying any foreign engines at all. An enhanced Kaveri would be on the future of MCA programme jets while WS-13 would be powering the J-XX.

 

[Chota]

For kaveri Fans

For Kaveri Fans

From the horse mouth

Kaveri Engine—Salient Features
---------------------------------------------
Air mass flow : 78 kg/s
By-pass ratio : 0.2-0.24
Overall pressure ratio : 21.5
Turbine entry temperature (flat-rated) : 1487-1700 K
Maximum thrust (dry)-IRA, SL : 52 kN
Maximum thrust with afterburner-IRA, SL : 81 kN
SFC (dry) : 0.78 kg/h/kg
Maximum SFC with afterburner : 2.03 kg/h/kg
Thrust/weight ratio : 7.8


KAVERI MARINE GAS TURBINE ENGINE
-----------------------------------
Salient Features
Output : 15 MW at ISA-SLS
Specific fuel consumption : 0.27 kg/kW-h at ISA-SLS
Fuel : Low sulphur high speed diesel (LSHSD)
Power turbine speed : 5800 rpm
TET : 1560 K (max)


> The afterburner system provides a thrust boost of 60 per cent over and above maximum dry thrust at an efficiency of 90 per cent, consistent light up from sea level to 11 km

> Kaveri engines have been tested both in normally aspirated and with limited high pressure/temperature entry
conditions for more than 1800 h. Stringent structural (safety and life) and aerodynamic tests have taken up as a prelude to
official altitude test, flying test bed trials and accelerated mission tests leading to engine certification for airworthiness.

 

[Chota]

India's LCA unlikely to use Kaveri engine until late next decade

India's LCA unlikely to use Kaveri engine until late next decade

By Siva Govindasamy

India's Tejas light combat aircraft could use a foreign powerplant until the middle of the next decade, due to ongoing problems with the development of an indigenous engine. The LCA is scheduled to enter service with the Indian air force in 2011,

The state-owned Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has spent Rp20 billion ($411 million) developing the indigenous Kaveri engine since 1989, but the powerplant is still overweight and does not have the 21,000-22,500lb of thrust (93-100kN) that its customer requires.

The difficulties led to the Aeronautical Development Agency, which is developing the Tejas, ordering General Electric F404-IN20 engines last year to power the aircraft. These will ensure that the fighter, which has also been plagued by other delays, achieves initial operational capability by the end of next year and enters service in 2011.

Now, the agency is likely to place an order for GE F414 engines this year to power another 20 fighters, says M Natarajan, secretary of India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which oversees the ADA. "The first two LCA squadrons, consisting of 20 jets each, will be fitted with General Electric engines. The subsequent squadrons could fly with an upgraded version of [the] Kaveri engine," he says.

The ADA is working with the GTRE and the air force to improve the Kaveri. Natarajan reiterates that the programme will not be scrapped. "A team of air force engineers is working with GTRE and ADA in addressing the issues. As an ongoing project, the air force will be involved at the point of integrating the upgraded version of the engine with the aircraft," he adds.

The GTRE is also likely to work with French engine manufacturer Snecma on the Kaveri, although the two sides have yet to reach an agreement for joint development and testing, and for the transfer of technology and manufacturing. "Discussions with Snecma have been going on for two years," says Natarajan. "Development and flight-testing of the new engine will take at least five to six years."

Separately, a higher-thrust version of the Kaveri will also power India's proposed medium combat aircraft development. The ADA is working with the air force to develop the model, which it hopes will eventually replace Dassault Mirage fighters and Sepecat Jaguar strike aircraft. It will also supplement the service's Sukhoi Su-30MKIs, Tejas and new medium multirole combat aircraft that India will order in the next few years.

 

[p2prada]

Obvious. It should take 7-8 years just to redesign the core for use on LCA.

 

[Agantrope]

One of my close frnd in ADA. What i heard from him is the Kaveri is same as what they designed but the Tejas keep on growing from 3rd to 4++ gen aircraft.
Kaveri produces 53KN dry thrust when compared to required 60KN and afterburner 82KN when compared 90KN as required.

It is better to keep americans at the bay in this program as French as reliable then US as SCENMA offered to help in this.

But IMPO kaveri shud have at 75-80KN dry thrust and 120-130KN of afterburner thrust in the Tejas Mk-II

 

[icecoolben]

Kaveri indeed should evolve

One of my close frnd in ADA. What i heard from him is the Kaveri is same as what they designed but the Tejas keep on growing from 3rd to 4++ gen aircraft.
Kaveri produces 53KN dry thrust when compared to required 60KN and afterburner 82KN when compared 90KN as required.
It is better to keep americans at the bay in this program as French as reliable then US as SCENMA offered to help in this.
But IMPO kaveri shud have at 75-80KN dry thrust and 120-130KN of afterburner thrust in the Tejas Mk-II

it is best that v partner snecma to develop a 100 kn engine based on m-88, it would also boost rafale sales since, many including uae ask for a high thrust engine. The rafale loses to eurofighter mainly on the power plant front.
though i admire ur support for the programme, isn't the 80kn dry thrust putting kaveri in the leagues of w-10, al-31, al-41,f-100,f-110. Lets match ourselves against our contemperories. Ge 414 has reportedly developed the highest wet thrust 118 kn, so any kaveri improvements would amount to 120 kn max. The ej-200 engine with its brand new innovative thermo-dynamic cycle could produce only 60 kn dry thrust while its manufacturers claim an in-built enhancement of 13% would bring it to 66 kn, our kabini would have to extensively re-designed using improved materials to reach this target. So ideally we should confine ourselves to 68 kn military and 120 kn wet thrust as targets, this engine would be more than enough for our proposed 20 ton medium combat aircraft to super cruise. As it was realised even before tejas, in-house power plant is essential to keep up with growing needs for thrust, but unfortunately with tejas, engine suitability still dogs its development. power plant suitability should not scuttle the development process of further programs.
The next generation of areal, surface platforms, uavs and ships would indeed be based wholly on gas turbines in such a future countries without know how of designing them would be left to rot,run pillar to post for such licencing such technology. Considering such prospects development of kaveri should be a matter of national priority.

 

[p2prada]

But IMPO kaveri shud have at 75-80KN dry thrust and 120-130KN of afterburner thrust in the Tejas Mk-II

Too much for a 10 ton fighter. 90-100 KN is more than enough. Too much power is not good for fighters with low wing loading.

 

[icecoolben]

Too much for a 10 ton fighter. 90-100 KN is more than enough. Too much power is not good for fighters with low wing loading.

officially tejas has been officially de-linked from kaveri. Its development remains nevertheless a high priority. So increasing thrust should be done with a long term vision. But i agree 80 kn dry thrust is impossible by an engine of kaveri's size even 20 years into the future. The present engine configuration itself is capable of powering the next generation advanced trainer based on tejas. But to get the current project going v need a partnership with Snecma to supply the third batch of tejas fighters with engines of 100 kn power. As a separate project, We can then use ej200's newest technologies and hot end component development tech, which they are willing to transfer to india to develop a newer thermo-dynamic cycle to advance kaveri to a next generation engine with hopefully 70 kn dry and 120 kn wet thrust by 2020 to power production models of medium combat aircraft.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

India's LCA unlikely to use Kaveri engine until late next decade

India's LCA unlikely to use Kaveri engine until late next decade​

By Siva Govindasamy

India's Tejas light combat aircraft could use a foreign powerplant until the middle of the next decade, due to ongoing problems with the development of an indigenous engine. The LCA is scheduled to enter service with the Indian air force in 2011,

The state-owned Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has spent Rp20 billion ($411 million) developing the indigenous Kaveri engine since 1989, but the powerplant is still overweight and does not have the 21,000-22,500lb of thrust (93-100kN) that its customer requires.

The difficulties led to the Aeronautical Development Agency, which is developing the Tejas, ordering General Electric F404-IN20 engines last year to power the aircraft. These will ensure that the fighter, which has also been plagued by other delays, achieves initial operational capability by the end of next year and enters service in 2011.
Now, the agency is likely to place an order for GE F414 engines this year to power another 20 fighters, says M Natarajan, secretary of India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which oversees the ADA. "The first two LCA squadrons, consisting of 20 jets each, will be fitted with General Electric engines. The subsequent squadrons could fly with an upgraded version of [the] Kaveri engine," he says.

The ADA is working with the GTRE and the air force to improve the Kaveri. Natarajan reiterates that the programme will not be scrapped. "A team of air force engineers is working with GTRE and ADA in addressing the issues. As an ongoing project, the air force will be involved at the point of integrating the upgraded version of the engine with the aircraft," he adds.

The GTRE is also likely to work with French engine manufacturer Snecma on the Kaveri, although the two sides have yet to reach an agreement for joint development and testing, and for the transfer of technology and manufacturing. "Discussions with Snecma have been going on for two years," says Natarajan. "Development and flight-testing of the new engine will take at least five to six years."

Separately, a higher-thrust version of the Kaveri will also power India's proposed medium combat aircraft development. The ADA is working with the air force to develop the model, which it hopes will eventually replace Dassault Mirage fighters and Sepecat Jaguar strike aircraft. It will also supplement the service's Sukhoi Su-30MKIs, Tejas and new medium multirole combat aircraft that India will order in the next few years.

India's LCA unlikely to use Kaveri engine until late next decade

 

[enlightened1]

Old report :dozey::dozey:
Thread already exist
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/military-aviation-air-forces/1-ada-tejas-lca-news-discussions.html

Read this

 

[icecoolben]

here's an interesting article regarding kaveri and the tejas mk-2 engine program

Broadsword: Finally, a deadline for the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft's new engine

if this is to be believed tejas mk-2 engine has been selected bedfore 2009 and rd-33 93 news reports were just side shows, anyway thats really good for the program time-line since working at both re-engingeing the air-frame and working on the previous mk-1 for operational clearance.

 

[RPK]

GTRE to develop Kaveri marine engine with Navy

fullstory

Bangalore, Nov 27 (PTI) Gas Turbine Research Establishment is looking to develop a marine version of Kaveri engine, originally intended to power India's indigenous fighter jet Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, in partnership with the Navy.

"We are already looking at Kaveri Marine project of which Indian Navy is quite supportive and they are going to be our working partners including financial participation", Director of GTRE, a lab under Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), T Mohana Rao, told PTI here.

Using the core of the Kaveri engine, GTRE plans to add low-pressure compressor and turbine as a gas generator to generate shaft power for maritime applications.

Bangalore-based GTRE is also looking at developing small gas turbine engines for unmanned aircraft.

"There are lots of other projects in the offing. We need to look at them in a very pragmatic way", Rao said.

 

[ironman]

I think thats a bit old news. There is already a Kaveri marine test version running in Naval Dockyard Visakhapatnam. Here I'm attaching the pictures, first one is from official website.

Adm Arun Prakash, Chief of the Naval Staff, witnessing the testing of Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine at Test House.

 

[enlightened1]

Tejas to fly on indigenous Kaveri engine next year: Official​

The city-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), which is indigenously developing various types of aero engines, would be fitting its flagship product Kaveri engine to the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) 'Tejas' in the next one year.

Disclosing this to reporters at the 23rd convention of aerospace engineers here GTRE Director T Mohana Rao said the establishment had overcome all obstacles and one of the engines, originally built for the LCA was taken to Russia for testing. Once it passes the test another engine would be shipped later for flying test, he said.

He said the engine would be ready by March or April next year and it will be fully ready for integration in one year's time. ''We are also looking to develop a marine version of Kaveri engine and Indian Navy would be our working partners. This includes financial participation. Indian Navy is working with us for Kaveri marine project,'' he said.

The naval version would be co-designed by the two organisations and it would have low-pressure compressor and turbine.

GTRE was also looking at developing small gas turbine engines for unmanned aircraft.

''We are ready to develop any type of gas turbine engines for the country. There are lots of other projects in the offing,'' Mr Rao added.

He said GTRE's bid to find a joint venture partner was yet to be finalised as it was expecting the final sanction from the government. ''We had shortlisted 'Snecma' of France for the JV, but we have not started the work yet as some government approvals are still pending. Indian Air Force and DRDO would have to approve the JV,'' he said.

 

[RPK]

PIB Press Release

Indigenous technology for Tejas Aircraft

The engine used in Tejas Aircraft is imported from USA, whereas 70% of avionic systems integrated on Tejas is indigenous and 30% has been imported from Israel, France, Italy, United Kingdom and USA. Parallel efforts are being made for indigenizing remaining 30% of the avionic systems.

Only few countries in the world are currently capable of design and development of engines for aircraft and tank. These are exceptionally complex technologies and involve many disciplines and vast industrial base and capabilities. Hence development of these technologies take longer time.

Indigenous Kaveri engine development program for the Tejas aircraft is already under progress. To cater to the additional thrust requirement within the same engine envelope, co-development with an established and reputed international engine house is being contemplated.