JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

patriots

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A fighter is good....
If has a good defensive suit
And offensive capability

India s tejas though less in number but
Now tejas has 2 ccms
Derby as a bvr.....Astra integration going on
Other hand jf17 has sd10 and only blk3 will get pl15 ..
Jf17 has fired an unknown bomb or asm.....
Tejas tested ... Hammer
Jdam is next
Tejas has more varieties of weapons ...Which jf17 lacks
 

Pandora

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A fighter is good....
If has a good defensive suit
And offensive capability

India s tejas though less in number but
Now tejas has 2 ccms
Derby as a bvr.....Astra integration going on
Other hand jf17 has sd10 and only blk3 will get pl15 ..
Jf17 has fired an unknown bomb or asm.....
Tejas tested ... Hammer
Jdam is next
Tejas has more varieties of weapons ...Which jf17 lacks
Jf17 can fire miniatures nuke..0.5kg choclate bomb,1kg sutli bomb..Tejas simply can't..
 

cannonfodder

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I partially agree with your logic. I believe Combat range of JF-17 is sufficient in India vs Pakistan scenario.

If history has taught us anything thing then Pakistani have a tendency the overestimate their strength, underestimate India's capabilities, have some idiotic insane strategic goals and assumptions. With this false sense of bravado they attack India and end up punching above their weight and capability.

Even with their twisted view of reality they will end up using JF-17 for air-superiority and air-defense missions. Even in such case Combat range of 1,450 km is sufficient. Their is no such need of air-refueling as such for the platform.

Multan Pathankot distance is around 457 km and Peshawar Pathankot is around 430 km.
Multan and Peshawar both are farthest significant PAF airbases that can threaten India. In either case Combat range of JF-17 suffice.
The CCP bot knows that the rabid dog will pounce if its master pushes for it or its inflated self-ego gives even minor semblence of short term victory. The bot has this habit to say something to defend the masters rabid dog.
 

Roland55

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I hope this settles the issue, if this looks like CGI to members then ALRIGHT JF-17 can't do aerial refueling, won't change anything about Thunder's operational aerial refueling capability. Neither will make its competency any less in the 8 squadrons currently operating the jet with this capability.
I will "through my opinion out" regarding the IFR issue with the JF-17s, all im mentioning can be found on the internet, so...

For instance, the type of probe used by the series Block 2 (mid production onwards) and the two seaters, is of course the chinese one, originally there was another probe (lets call it "South African style" thats...relatively similar to the one used by the Cheetahs in south africa.

We all seen this pic, serial 109 is...well a block 1 aircraft, note that the position of this probe does not match the one of the later and more definitive chinese made probe.

Whether it be bad performance, availability or (X reason we dont know) the block 1 probe was never implemented. Instead the Block 2 would enter production and in said moment, a unit would be sent to china to undergo the necessary modifications to accommodate the new IFR probe. This unit under the number "229" would be the first to get said modification...

Later the remaining JF-17s of the block 2 would also receive it. (meaning that the block 2 batch has examples with it, and without it)

I wanna make a contrast with tejas, since both started with no IFR probe, but there is something that i consider crucial in order to understand the whole picture here....it takes a long time to properly implement this modifications, Tejas was first seen with a mockup probe years before it even performed its first refueling, it takes work inside to rearrange components (if the conduct goes on the inside or outside) wing tunnel testing, stress tests..etc..etc you name it... its not something fast or easy.

I don't really wanna doubt the fact that they lack have that capability, but lets think for a bit, they only have 4 tankers (probably not all of them in said configuration as they also are used for transport), and the fleet that has the probe installed is mainly composed of 20ish or more block 2s...so... until we see it on the block 3s...we are going to still have doubts.

I would argue that they dont really need such a thing, given how close they are to india...and that most of their force flew (and flies) lacking refueling probes...
 

Super Flanker

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Slightly offtopic, but in war scenarios pak army can be aggressor but paf is now mostly a defensive force after air defense of IAF getting good upgrades.
Pakistan has always been the aggressor in every war. Be it 1947-1948 war, 1965, 1971 or 1999 Kargil war, we have always seen that Pakistan was the aggressor here. 1971 could be ruled out From the list as it involved east Pakistan (now Bangladesh).
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Coming to PAF than yes they will At-most be a Defensive force but I am 100% sure that in a war with Pakistan, PAF will get involved.

Jf17 perfectly suits paf requirements.
In what way does it suit the requirements of Pakistan Airforce? Kindly elaborate on that.
 

Mikesingh

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Myanmar grounds Pak's Thunder Blunders!!

According to reliable intel sources, Myanmar has grounded 16 JF-17 blk 2 out of the 17 imported from Pak recently due to:
1. Lack of spares
2. Technical issues
3. Cracks in the air frame (PAF has grounded much of its fleet of JF-17s due to this serious problem)
4. Non availability of RD-93 engines for overhaul and its spares from Russia.

In a nutshell, the much hyped (by Pak) Thunder is a blunder of galactic proportions, fit for the scrap heap!
 

Neeraj Mathur

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Myanmar grounds Pak's Thunder Blunders!!

According to reliable intel sources, Myanmar has grounded 16 JF-17 blk 2 out of the 17 imported from Pak recently due to:
1. Lack of spares
2. Technical issues
3. Cracks in the air frame (PAF has grounded much of its fleet of JF-17s due to this serious problem)
4. Non availability of RD-93 engines for overhaul and its spares from Russia.

In a nutshell, the much hyped (by Pak) Thunder is a blunder of galactic proportions, fit for the scrap heap!
4th point will bite all who are dependent on russia for engine spares.
 

Super Flanker

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Myanmar grounds Pak's Thunder Blunders!!

According to reliable intel sources, Myanmar has grounded 16 JF-17 blk 2 out of the 17 imported from Pak recently due to:
1. Lack of spares
2. Technical issues
3. Cracks in the air frame (PAF has grounded much of its fleet of JF-17s due to this serious problem)
4. Non availability of RD-93 engines for overhaul and its spares from Russia.

In a nutshell, the much hyped (by Pak) Thunder is a blunder of galactic proportions, fit for the scrap heap!
I searched on open source "JF-17 Myanmar" and there is only one news outlet which I have come across claiming that Myanmar has grounded its JF-17s and guess what is the source ? It's "IDRW" and such a source should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Both sides media can claim anything. Pakistani media can claim Tejas is "grounded" and Indian Media can claim the same for JF-17 Thunders.

If you have more sources making a comment on this than do Share it here with me.
 

India Super Power

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I searched on open source "JF-17 Myanmar" and there is only one news outlet which I have come across claiming that Myanmar has grounded its JF-17s and guess what is the source ? It's "IDRW" and such a source should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Both sides media can claim anything. Pakistani media can claim Tejas is "grounded" and Indian Media can claim the same for JF-17 Thunders.

If you have more sources making a comment on this than do Share it here with me.
Mujhe ghanta farak padta
It's truly a very worst aircraft especially block 1 and 2 can't say about 3 with reliability rate but does the work for poorer economic countries like Pakistan and Myanmar and best thing is the way they close their eyes and ears
 

Super Flanker

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Mujhe ghanta farak padta
It's truly a very worst aircraft especially block 1 and 2 can't say about 3 with reliability rate but does the work for poorer economic countries like Pakistan and Myanmar and best thing is the way they close their eyes and ears
JF-17 block-1 when it was inducted in PAF was not even on par with Tejas IOC prototype, even our MiG-21 Bison would have been enough to counter it Effectively. JF-17 block-2, when it went into serial production in 2018 at PAC was better than the MiG-21 bison and on par in some aspects of Tejas MK-1 IOC, JF-17 block-3 is the one which can challenge the upcoming MK-1A in some aspects, no current block of JF-17 can match or surpass the upcoming Tejas MK-1A but JF-17 is still a good plane for PAF and suits the requirements of PAF and countries who cannot afford high end fighters like SU-35/SU-30/F-16 etc.
 

Mikesingh

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I searched on open source "JF-17 Myanmar" and there is only one news outlet which I have come across claiming that Myanmar has grounded its JF-17s and guess what is the source ? It's "IDRW" and such a source should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Both sides media can claim anything. Pakistani media can claim Tejas is "grounded" and Indian Media can claim the same for JF-17 Thunders.

If you have more sources making a comment on this than do Share it here with me.
There are other sources too apart from the web which needless to say, cannot be divulged!

Forget Myanmar, even PAF has grounded over 60% of its JF-17 fleet of all variants.

Let's see why. All the 4 points mentioned above are common to all blks! So what's common? Poor metallurgy resulting in cracks in the air-frames, lack of spares, technical issues, non availability of engines and its spares from Russia. Even the blk 3 has these issues including prohibitive life cycle costs.

Here's some gen that may interest you ......

Pakistan quietly Grounds All JF 17 Blk 1 Fighters.


[media]



And the latest images of the so called 'upgraded' JF-17 blk III variant show no visible changes to the exterior of the engine, suggesting it is fitted with the Klimov RD-93MA or even the same legacy RD-9. Regardless of how it performs, if it is a Russian engine again, serviceability will continue to dog the platform in the future.

Also check out CIS News Network.
 
Last edited:

johnj

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I searched on open source "JF-17 Myanmar" and there is only one news outlet which I have come across claiming that Myanmar has grounded its JF-17s and guess what is the source ? It's "IDRW" and such a source should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Both sides media can claim anything. Pakistani media can claim Tejas is "grounded" and Indian Media can claim the same for JF-17 Thunders.

If you have more sources making a comment on this than do Share it here with me.
IDRW contains articles written with little ideas and some others from real news and articles, but majority of them ''my take'' or by some individual [uses name] is with a little ideas, hence look for source.
 

Wisemarko

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Having visited Pakistan and China, is Argentina ready to buy the JF-17 jet?
Usman AnsariJun 24, 10:44 AM
Pakistani Air Force personnel stand guard in front of 14 dual-seat JF-17B multirole aircraft, rolled out at a ceremony that coincided with the launch of the JF-17 Block III variant at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra, west of Islamabad, on Dec. 30, 2020. (Aamir Qureshi/AFP via Getty Images)
ISLAMABAD and SANTIAGO, Chile — The recent visit to Pakistan by the head of Argentina’s joint military staff has fed speculation that a JF-17 fighter jet deal is on the horizon following more than a decade of interest by the South American nation. But despite China’s willingness to help fund an acquisition program, its unclear if any major progress was made.

Lt. Gen. Juan Martín Paleo visited with several military and government figures June 14-15 in Islamabad including Pakistan Air Force head Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu and Minister for Defence Production Muhammad Israr Tareen.

While Paleo is Argentina’s senior military officer, he is not the key decision-maker on the selection of a new fighter jet. That role belongs to Gen. Xavier Isaac, the head of the Air Force.

In May, a delegation of Air Force pilots and technicians evaluated the JF-17 in China. This included a full technical evaluation, use of a simulator and evaluation flights. In the more recent trip to Pakistan, officials discussed collaboration on defense materiel production during a visit to the Ministry of Defence Production.

Neither the ministry, the Defence Export Promotion Organization nor the local Argentine Embassy responded to requests for additional information.

However, sources in Argentina told Defense News that officials discussed the possibility of having the FC-1 — the export variant of the JF-17 — assembled in the country, with parts and components supplied by China and Pakistan in addition to some produced locally. The country would eventually want to be able to make major modifications to its own FC-1 aircraft, said military officers and government officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of concerns over job security.


Argentina's Gen. Juan Martín Paleo, center, visits with The head of U.S. Southern Command, Army Gen. Laura Richardson, on April 26, 2022, at the country's Defense Ministry. (Courtesy of the U.S. Embassy in Argentina)

Andrei Serbin Pont, who leads the Argentina-based think tank CRIES and was previously an adviser at the country’s Strategic Affairs Secretariat, is unconvinced Paleo’s trip implies a deal for the JF-17 Thunder is imminent.

“In my experience, nothing in [the] Argentine defense sector is set [in] stone until contracts are signed and Argentina actually starts paying,” he said, especially given the country’s ongoing economic crisis is “quite profound, with reserves running dangerously low and possibilities of default.”

The government is also unlikely to make large defense investments with no political benefit; elections are a year away, which isn’t enough time for the ruling party to “harvest the political capital gained from any successful military purchases.”

The government’s preference to balance suppliers by nationality may also hinder JF-17 acquisition efforts, as it prefers “to express a certain degree of equidistance with China and the United States, hoping not to damage the relationship,” Serbin Pont explained.

Argentina’s Army is currently considering an eight-wheel drive armored fighting vehicle from China North Industries Group Corporation Limited, also known as NORINCO. If selected, “this will likely reduce the chances of the Air Force going for the JF-17, and vice versa,” he said.

Why choose the JF-17?
Since retiring its last Mirage aircraft in 2015, the Argentine Air Force has lacked high-performing, supersonic interceptors. Its current operational inventory includes at least 10 A-4 fighter-bombers, which are supplemented by armed IA-63 Pampa jet trainers.

In September 2021, Argentina’s Defense Ministry allocated $664 million for the acquisition of 12 fighter aircraft, having received offers from Russia for the MiG-29 and MiG-35 Fulcrum as well as and China and Pakistan for the JF-17, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies. “Plans to acquire aircraft from other sources have foundered in recent years, reportedly as a result of pressure from the UK,” the London-based think tank wrote in its latest “Military Balance” report.

It’s likely Argentina is specifically considering the JF-17 Block III variant, which is currently under production for Pakistan, said Richard Fisher, a senior fellow at the U.S.-based International Assessment and Strategy Center think tank.

The Block III features an active electronically scanned array radar as well as advanced weaponry like the PL-15 long-range air-to-air missile and supersonic anti-ship missiles. Consequently, Fisher said, the variant would “be the most competitive against British F-35B and Typhoon fighters,” and Western and Russian subsystems and components could easily be swapped for Chinese versions, potentially neutralizing the threat of sanctions.

“Argentina appears to be seeking the best capability for the lowest expenditure,” he said, and this “augurs well for the JF-17.″ The aircraft is facing off against a Danish offer of a dozen surplus F-16A/B MLU fighters.


A Pakistani JF-17 Thunder performs its flying display at the Paris Air Show on June 17, 2019. (Eric Piermond/AFP via Getty Images)

Based on statements made by several Argentine military and government officials, there is interest in basing future interceptor jets at Rio Grande in the province of Tierra del Fuego to defense the southern tip of the country. Other possibilities include Tandil in the province of Buenos Aires, Reconquista in the province of Santa Fe and Villa Reynolds in the province of San Luis.

Asked whether the aircraft would meet operational requirements, Serbin Pont said the Air Force is effectively out of options. “So the JF-17, even with limitations in comparison to other fourth- and fourth-plus-generation fighters in the market, would be an upgrade for [Argentina’s Air Force].”

Assembly and funding
Fisher noted Argentina’s hopes to locally produce the JF-17, and wondered “whether Pakistan would approve and contribute to a competitive Argentine co-production capability,” as the South American country wants to become “a regional combat aircraft provider, with the JF-17 as its main product.”

Currently, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has a 58% work share in the JF-17 program, meaning even aircraft exported to Myanmar by Chinese partner Chengdu Aircraft Corp. were partially manufactured in Pakistan, with final assembly by the corporation.

While the Pakistani complex would lose work due to Argentine production, it would still receive royalties.
And local assembly would still see the aeronautics specialist make the same percentage of each aircraft before parts are shipped to Argentina.

Final assembly of the aircraft and the production of parts could take place at the Fábrica Argentina de Aviones “Brigadier San Martín” in Cordoba, but work would likely involve other subcontractors spread across in the country. A center for the maintenance of engines and subcomponents could be set up at the Air Force’s Área Material Río Cuarto, also in Cordoba.

It’s also possible the program would involve INVAP, a business based at Bariloche in the Patagonia region that specializes in developing radars and optronics, and has the capability to develop indigenous systems or adapt foreign systems for aircraft integration.

Fisher said Pakistan “baulked” at Argentina’s co-production plans a decade ago, but that Paleo’s visit “is a strong indication that a future Argentine acquisition of JF-17 will be done with full Pakistan cooperation and inclusion in possible co-production deals.”

Additionally, Chinese-backed local assembly and production “would add political incentive to Uruguay, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela and perhaps Cuba to consider this low-cost fighter,” he added.


A model of the JF-17 is seen on display at Pakistan's stand at the 2008 China Airshow. (Mike Clarke/AFP via Getty Images)

Fisher believes this would aid China’s regional ambitions, noting China offered Argentina the more capable F-10C Firebird “around 2014 to 2015.″ However, “it appears that it was too expensive,” he noted.

This is unlikely to be an issue for the more affordable JF-17, as “very concessionary” Chinese funding of “all major weapons purchases” will be forthcoming, he added.

Military sources told Defense News that China offered a government-to-government loan for an eventual order of the jet, and is willing to accept partial payment in beef and other commodities produced by Argentina.

“If China wants to upend the strategic balance in Latin America with the eager help of Argentina and others who will fight with her, China is going to have to subsidize the weapons purchases to start those events,” Fisher said.

Usman Ansari is the Pakistan correspondent for Defense News.
 

kamaal

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Whole contract is currently valued at sub 1 $ billion and they expect the oem to set an assembly center, this shows they are non-seriour and very naive about fighter jet economy.
They are picking up fight against F35, a fifth gen jet, and won't spend even $ 50 million per jet. JF17 is a sitting duck against any British jet operational from british aircraft carrier.
 

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