JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[FalconSlayers]

Please share me that video which you are quoting here? The link. I want to see it myself.

Could be real, could be CGI, don’t know.

 

[Blademaster]

Could be real, could be CGI, don’t know.

CGI.

 

[Super Flanker]

Could be real, could be CGI, don’t know.

In the footage the aircraft which the JF-17 is supposively refueling from is an IL-78.

I am showing you the video again, and please Watch at Timestamp : ( 0:00 - 0:01 ). Does the IL-78 Actually look real? It doesn't seem to be real to me.


And let's take for the sake of argument, that this footage is real than why are there not more footages of JF-17 refueling mid air?

There are multiple video footages of Aircrafts like SU-30 ,F-22, F-35, FA-18, MiG-29 Conducting air to air refueling but surprisingly there is only 1 video of JF-17 doing it and that too not very clear at all?

CGI.

What makes you so sure that it's CGI. And if it is indeed CGI and JF-17 cannot conduct air to air refueling than this just proves that in a full fledged war, JF-17s won't be able to stay in the air for longer durations whereas our Tejas has complete edge because of Air to Air refueling.

@FalconSlayers if you have information about JF-17's endurance (How long it can stay in the air until it runs out of fuel) than please post it here.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Blademaster]

What makes you so sure that it's CGI.

Mk1 eyeball. For starters, it is very fuzzy and not sharp at all. That's a tell right away when they don't want to clearly reveal that it is a GCI and is trying to play cute but falls flat on its face. And take a look at the drogue instantly snapping into the refueling probe as if it instantly fits. You don't see the drogue flying all over and being buffeted by the wind and vortexes. And when it fits in, the drogue doesn't recoil back like normally. Instead it stays straight and recoils gently. Too easy.

 

[Aliusman]

I don't think so that any indian on the forum has Claimed that JF-17 doesn't have IFR Capability, yes it has IFR probe, everyone here agrees with that.

But my only question is, has JF-17 till date conducted an IFR till date? Show me a photo or a Video of JF-17 refueling in flight.

Open challenge from my side to you!

Link for the video

look at the the video from 0.08 to 0.10s timeline.

I hope this settles the issue, if this looks like CGI to members then ALRIGHT JF-17 can't do aerial refueling, won't change anything about Thunder's operational aerial refueling capability. Neither will make its competency any less in the 8 squadrons currently operating the jet with this capability.

 

[Super Flanker]

Link for the video

look at the the video from 0.08 to 0.10s timeline.
View attachment 153508

I hope this settles the issue, if this looks like CGI to members then ALRIGHT JF-17 can't do aerial refueling, won't change anything about Thunder's operational aerial refueling capability. Neither will make its competency any less in the 8 squadrons currently operating the jet with this capability.

If JF-17 can indeed conduct mid-air refueling than why till date, there is only this video of a JF-17 doing it?

Why no other footage exists? and many members have already pointed out some inconsistencies with regards to this Footage as well.

Here I am giving you Examples of atleast 3 Different jets conducting Mid-air refueling. The 3 jets are FA-18, F-16 and SU-30 (MKI, SM, MKM etc). All of these planes are having IFR Capability and here I am sharing atleast 3 Different footages for each plane showing their IFR Capability.

F-18 mid air refueling:-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

F-16 midair refueling:-
https://youtu.be/TH2E2-D_64M
https://youtu.be/HAZGJAZDUyo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SU-30 MKI midair refueling
https://youtu.be/GVUqqTXY7jo
https://youtu.be/wJ6NPR5xw2A
https://youtu.be/KOah6707HdY

You get it now? All these Aircrafts are having Multiple footages of in-flight refueling. Tejas too has IFR Capability, you can search up on Google and YouTube. But your JF-17 is having no other footage?

Also read this post which I am quoting here :-

Mk1 eyeball. For starters, it is very fuzzy and not sharp at all. That's a tell right away when they don't want to clearly reveal that it is a GCI and is trying to play cute but falls flat on its face. And take a look at the drogue instantly snapping into the refueling probe as if it instantly fits. You don't see the drogue flying all over and being buffeted by the wind and vortexes. And when it fits in, the drogue doesn't recoil back like normally. Instead it stays straight and recoils gently. Too easy.

The post has mentioned the inconsistencies with regards to the footage of supposively JF-17 conducting Mid-air refueling.

Show us atleast 3-4 footages and than we will accept that your Thunder has IFR Capability. Meanwhile we will enjoy superiority of our LCA Tejas over JF-17.

Regards. And please note I am not trying to troll you or something, I am just asking kindly what I have asked.

 

[Blademaster]

Link for the video

look at the the video from 0.08 to 0.10s timeline.
View attachment 153508

I hope this settles the issue, if this looks like CGI to members then ALRIGHT JF-17 can't do aerial refueling, won't change anything about Thunder's operational aerial refueling capability. Neither will make its competency any less in the 8 squadrons currently operating the jet with this capability.

Link for the video

look at the the video from 0.08 to 0.10s timeline.
View attachment 153508

I hope this settles the issue, if this looks like CGI to members then ALRIGHT JF-17 can't do aerial refueling, won't change anything about Thunder's operational aerial refueling capability. Neither will make its competency any less in the 8 squadrons currently operating the jet with this capability.

In the last part of the first video, it is defintely CGI. As for the picture being the thumbnail of the video, it does not look like a JF-17 thunder but something else.

 

[Super Flanker]

In the last part of the first video, it is defintely CGI. As for the picture being the thumbnail of the video, it does not look like a JF-17 thunder but something else.

You are right, it's not a JF-17, it's a mirage series of Aircraft operated by Pakistan Airforce. Specifically speaking, it's a Dassault Mirage 3.

Mirage 3 was designed and Introduced in the 1960s and there are some photos of it conducting IFR. But the same cannot be said for JF-17.

It would definitely Prove to be an embarrassment if we find out that a jet designed and Introduced in 1960s has IFR whereas a newer and more modern jet Which was introduced after 2000s doesn't.

 

[Aliusman]

Only one video of JF-17 with Refueling so it cant be true …people here seriously think that PAF has put probes on atleast 56 AC for photo-ops ….thats just messed up ,underestimating one’s enemy is great for us , please keep doing that , i hope IAF thinks on the same lines…. Someone here did quote a TACDE pilot saying the same about JF-17 and thats IAF’s Cream

 

[no smoking]

What makes you so sure that it's CGI. And if it is indeed CGI and JF-17 cannot conduct air to air refueling than this just proves that in a full fledged war, JF-17s won't be able to stay in the air for longer durations whereas our Tejas has complete edge because of Air to Air refueling.

Before we make that judgement, we have to consider the possible war scenario for both jet. In a future war, India will be the attacker while Pakistan is in defensive position. So, it is more likely that Indian jets will need to enter into Pakistan's sky deeply for most of their missions. JF-17, on the other hand, will only need to fly in short range (maximum 200-300km outside the border). So, the air to air refueling capability is not a must capability but a plus capability to JF-17.

 

[cannonfodder]

Before we make that judgement, we have to consider the possible war scenario for both jet. In a future war, India will be the attacker while Pakistan is in defensive position. So, it is more likely that Indian jets will need to enter into Pakistan's sky deeply for most of their missions. JF-17, on the other hand, will only need to fly in short range (maximum 200-300km outside the border). So, the air to air refueling capability is not a must capability but a plus capability to JF-17.

It has 50%+ chance of happening other way around. The mad dog has an history of being over ambitious and trying to attacking first on behest of its masters.

 

[Super Flanker]

Only one video of JF-17 with Refueling so it cant be true …people here seriously think that PAF has put probes on atleast 56 AC for photo-ops ….thats just messed up ,underestimating one’s enemy is great for us , please keep doing that , i hope IAF thinks on the same lines…. Someone here did quote a TACDE pilot saying the same about JF-17 and thats IAF’s Cream

Why don't you just Accept it? JF-17 cannot do IFR. No wonder till date there is only one footage and there many things which point to this single footage itself being "Fake/Doctored".

Please don't tell me that according to you, a fighter jet like the JF-17 whose more than 6+ Squadrons have been inducted by Pakistan Airforce have JF-17s with IFR probe, that means in PAF fleet, more than 120+ JF-17 have IFR and no other footage is there of JF-17 refueling in midair?

 

[lcafanboy]

https://**********/pdf/threads/jf-1...ighter-thread-7.427560/page-894#post-13739509

https://defence .pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-7.427560/page-894#post-13739509

So Junk Fighter 17 can't even go beyond Mach 1 speed and mostly flies subsonic speeds. No doubt it's a China Maal....

 

[Dark Sorrow]

https://**********/pdf/threads/jf-1...ighter-thread-7.427560/page-894#post-13739509

https://defence .pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-7.427560/page-894#post-13739509

So Junk Fighter 17 can't even go beyond Mach 1 speed and mostly flies subsonic speeds. No doubt it's a China Maal....

As per study by USAF almost all air to air engagement (more than 95%) takes place in sub-sonic speed.
All weapon release are mainly tested under sub-sonic condition. As far as my knowledge all weapons on F-22 are certified for supersonic release, for EF-2000 I believe IRIS-T is certified for supersonic release and F-35 also has some weapons certified for supersonic release. Don't know for others.
Aircraft use supersonic speed mainly to get to proper intercept co-ordinates (position) or high speed maneuvering to dodge incoming missile.
If you see PAF's doctrine for JF-17 it is mainly point defense and air-defense aircraft and a low cost bomb truck for A-G operation. It is not a supersonic air-superiority or air-dominance fighter.
JF-17 is meant to a be low cost but high number (quantity) fighter aircraft for PAF.
It is comparable to role of IAF's Mig-21.

F-35 is also not recommended to fly supersonic (Mach 1.2 or Mach 1.3) for a long duration. That doesn't make F-35 a bad aircraft.

 

[lcafanboy]

As per study by USAF almost all air to air engagement (more than 95%) takes place in sub-sonic speed.
All weapon release are mainly tested under sub-sonic condition. As far as my knowledge all weapons on F-22 are certified for supersonic release, for EF-2000 I believe IRIS-T is certified for supersonic release and F-35 also has some weapons certified for supersonic release. Don't know for others.
Aircraft use supersonic speed mainly to get to proper intercept co-ordinates (position) or high speed maneuvering to dodge incoming missile.
If you see PAF's doctrine for JF-17 it is mainly point defense and air-defense aircraft and a low cost bomb truck for A-G operation. It is not a supersonic air-superiority or air-dominance fighter.
JF-17 is meant to a be low cost but high number (quantity) fighter aircraft for PAF.
It is comparable to role of IAF's Mig-21.

F-35 is also not recommended to fly supersonic (Mach 1.2 or Mach 1.3) for a long duration. That doesn't make F-35 a bad aircraft.

Agreed all air fight happens in sub sonic regime but when it's being chased by a enemy missiles or fighters it need supersonic speed to avoid a get away from them. Also for Air to Air missile to work with full range a fighter plane needs to release it on higher Speeds and higher altitudes which JF-17 is lacking...

Also for F-35 flying subsonic, remember it has Stealth and the most powerful electronic warfare suite which will simply distract and JAM enemy missiles and fighters and make an escape. A luxury which is not available on JF-17....

 

[Super Flanker]

As per study by USAF almost all air to air engagement (more than 95%) takes place in sub-sonic speed.
All weapon release are mainly tested under sub-sonic condition. As far as my knowledge all weapons on F-22 are certified for supersonic release, for EF-2000 I believe IRIS-T is certified for supersonic release and F-35 also has some weapons certified for supersonic release. Don't know for others.
Aircraft use supersonic speed mainly to get to proper intercept co-ordinates (position) or high speed maneuvering to dodge incoming missile.
If you see PAF's doctrine for JF-17 it is mainly point defense and air-defense aircraft and a low cost bomb truck for A-G operation. It is not a supersonic air-superiority or air-dominance fighter.
JF-17 is meant to a be low cost but high number (quantity) fighter aircraft for PAF.
It is comparable to role of IAF's Mig-21.

F-35 is also not recommended to fly supersonic (Mach 1.2 or Mach 1.3) for a long duration. That doesn't make F-35 a bad aircraft.

Pilots are generally recommended not to take the F-35 to Supersonic speeds for long duration is because the RAM/Stealth coating on the aircraft's body will start to get damaged due to friction caused by the air at supersonic Speed. Same case is with other Stealth fighters like F-22, SU-57 and J-20.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Pilots are generally recommended not to take the F-35 to Supersonic speeds for long duration is because the RAM/Stealth coating on the aircraft's body will start to get damaged due to friction caused by the air at supersonic Speed. Same case is with other Stealth fighters like F-22, SU-57 and J-20.

Tue. Similarly PAF recommended its pilot to avoid supersonic speed to avoid cracks in its all metal air-frame.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Agreed all air fight happens in sub sonic regime but when it's being chased by a enemy missiles or fighters it need supersonic speed to avoid a get away from them. Also for Air to Air missile to work with full range a fighter plane needs to release it on higher Speeds and higher altitudes which JF-17 is lacking...

Also for F-35 flying subsonic, remember it has Stealth and the most powerful electronic warfare suite which will simply distract and JAM enemy missiles and fighters and make an escape. A luxury which is not available on JF-17....

PAF doesn't care about its pilots. Financial cost is more important than human cost in PAF.

 

[kamaal]

Before we make that judgement, we have to consider the possible war scenario for both jet. In a future war, India will be the attacker while Pakistan is in defensive position. So, it is more likely that Indian jets will need to enter into Pakistan's sky deeply for most of their missions. JF-17, on the other hand, will only need to fly in short range (maximum 200-300km outside the border). So, the air to air refueling capability is not a must capability but a plus capability to JF-17.

Slightly offtopic, but in war scenarios pak army can be aggressor but paf is now mostly a defensive force after air defense of IAF getting good upgrades. Jf17 perfectly suits paf requirements.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Before we make that judgement, we have to consider the possible war scenario for both jet. In a future war, India will be the attacker while Pakistan is in defensive position. So, it is more likely that Indian jets will need to enter into Pakistan's sky deeply for most of their missions. JF-17, on the other hand, will only need to fly in short range (maximum 200-300km outside the border). So, the air to air refueling capability is not a must capability but a plus capability to JF-17.

I partially agree with your logic. I believe Combat range of JF-17 is sufficient in India vs Pakistan scenario.

If history has taught us anything thing then Pakistani have a tendency the overestimate their strength, underestimate India's capabilities, have some idiotic insane strategic goals and assumptions. With this false sense of bravado they attack India and end up punching above their weight and capability.

Even with their twisted view of reality they will end up using JF-17 for air-superiority and air-defense missions. Even in such case Combat range of 1,450 km is sufficient. Their is no such need of air-refueling as such for the platform.

Multan Pathankot distance is around 457 km and Peshawar Pathankot is around 430 km.
Multan and Peshawar both are farthest significant PAF airbases that can threaten India. In either case Combat range of JF-17 suffice.