JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[johnj]

@FalconSlayers @mist_consecutive @Whitecollar @BON PLAN @Porkislayer @Tshering22

What are your thoughts on this.

Why china need JF17 ? jf17 is like f5 or f20. Plaaf don't need it, becz they rarely fly their jets, j10 is a junk, jf17 need new infra hence expensive, no external threat, only thing good is su 27, su30 and copycat j11, there is no role for jf17 in plaaf. Also chinese not interested in new low quality engine, so they skipped jf17 and started stealing, buying tech to build and experiment and given top importance to economy. Russian case also similar, no money to buy new, and modified existing ones and given more importance to nuclear and high end weapons. Now situation changed, Plaaf focusing on j10s, j11/15/16 s, j20s, vintage and old ones like j7 for mongolia like countries. j10..,j11/15/16...,j20.. using similar engines. Now question is how many j31 jets were brought by plaaf ?

 

[BON PLAN]

@FalconSlayers @mist_consecutive @Whitecollar @BON PLAN @Porkislayer @Tshering22

What are your thoughts on this.

JF17 is mainly a point defense fighter, low cost. It's nice for defense of a small country as Pak.
China needs more range fighter, because they are preparing offensive actions, and because the country is huge.
A small J10 batch in the Pak air force is something natural. JF17-J10 is a low/med combo.

 

[Super Flanker]

Why china need JF17 ? jf17 is like f5 or f20. Plaaf don't need it, becz they rarely fly their jets, j10 is a junk, jf17 need new infra hence expensive, no external threat, only thing good is su 27, su30 and copycat j11, there is no role for jf17 in plaaf. Also chinese not interested in new low quality engine, so they skipped jf17 and started stealing, buying tech to build and experiment and given top importance to economy. Russian case also similar, no money to buy new, and modified existing ones and given more importance to nuclear and high end weapons. Now situation changed, Plaaf focusing on j10s, j11/15/16 s, j20s, vintage and old ones like j7 for mongolia like countries. j10..,j11/15/16...,j20.. using similar engines. Now question is how many j31 jets were brought by plaaf ?

Mm...
-

JF17 is mainly a point defense fighter, low cost. It's nice for defense of a small country as Pak.
China needs more range fighter, because they are preparing offensive actions, and because the country is huge.
A small J10 batch in the Pak air force is something natural. JF17-J10 is a low/med combo.

Ok

 

[johnj]

Mm...
-

Ok

Jf17 using tech from j10, and not opposite, means why plaaf need to replace j7/j8, if those can be replaced by j10, j16 and j20. If j17bk 3 is better than those three, then plaaf choose jf17. Now if you consider jf17bk1, no trainer, not good against enemy [mig29,su27,su30,f16,f2,f15 etc] and not better than j7/j8 against countries without a credible af like mongolia. and both j10, jf17 sucks that time and their pilot training below average. "MONGOLIA' was the key word used by plaaf to reject jf17- I read an old chinese article about these. At that time PAF much better than PLAAF. I also saw a article saying - chinese using l band aesa radar in j11.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Whenever I ask any Paki this ,he says its the same logic in which Russia is not buying Brahmos even though it is a joint venture between India and Russia, so JF 17 is also a joint venture between Pakistan and China and China doesn't require it.

Russia is said to be buying air launched variant for its flankers, but land and sea not interested for now. They have better land ones, and brahmos doesnt fit in their ships.

 

[Super Flanker]

Russia is said to be buying air launched variant for its flankers, but land and sea not interested for now. They have better land ones, and brahmos doesnt fit in their ships.

Any proof that Russia is buying or even Interested in Brahmos for their Flanker Aircrafts like SU-30, SU-35 etc? Any source?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Any proof that Russia is buying or even Interested in Brahmos for their Flanker Aircrafts like SU-30, SU-35 etc? Any source?

In September 2016, it was revealed that the Russian Defense Ministry is interested in purchasing the air-launched BrahMos to arm their Su-30SM fighters. So far, Russia has not purchased the missile system for the Russian Air Force.[233]

The Brahmos could be fitted to only few, if any, of the new ships of the Russian Navy. The updated Gorshkov-class frigates which are the latest type of frigate being built could possibly accomodate the missile. No Brahmos missile has been bought and inducted by the navy.[234]

Russian Air Force shows interest for air-launched variant of the BrahMos missile

Russian Air Force shows interest for air-launched variant of the BrahMos missile

www.airrecognition.com

 

[Super Flanker]

In September 2016, it was revealed that the Russian Defense Ministry is interested in purchasing the air-launched BrahMos to arm their Su-30SM fighters. So far, Russia has not purchased the missile system for the Russian Air Force.[233]

The Brahmos could be fitted to only few, if any, of the new ships of the Russian Navy. The updated Gorshkov-class frigates which are the latest type of frigate being built could possibly accomodate the missile. No Brahmos missile has been bought and inducted by the navy.[234]

Russian Air Force shows interest for air-launched variant of the BrahMos missile

Russian Air Force shows interest for air-launched variant of the BrahMos missile

www.airrecognition.com

So that means Russia is interested in Arming it's Flankers with brahmos air launched Variant, don't know if it will happen any soon, also for their navy they already have P-800 Oniks, (Ofcourse if we go by the authenticity of this article)

 

[Super Flanker]

 

[Super Flanker]

Is it True That JF 17 can carry SD-10S in twin Rack configuration?

(I have heard something like this: Two SD-10s on Each Twin Rack and in total there are 2 such twin racks, one on either wing, hence in total the Aircraft will carry 4 SD-10s)

I have seen in DCS, JF-17s carrying SD-10s on twin Rack configuration. Can JF-17s in real life actually do that? If so can you share pictures.

 

[Super Flanker]

The problem with these "brochure" specifications is, they are hardly realized in the actual platform. Classical Chinese strategy of over-selling something and you later find out it was never there.

For example -

• Double-rack pylon for SD-10/PL-15 is promised since Block-II but is only present in digital media or static airshows. It is yet to be realized in actual flying configuration.
• JHMCS is a pretty niche technology and "custom making" them for each pilot is something that will shoot the cost way high. Also doubts if it can be actually "better" and lighter than european/american models.
• All the advanced electronics promised, the tech from J-20 and J-35, all seem very futuristic. What is not specified, is how the cost will shoot up with such equipment, and can Pakistan really afford it, and thus if it makes sense for Pakistan to even get it.

Till now, JF-17 has remained a paper tiger, another trademark of Chinese weaponry.

I was going through Twitter and had typed "JF 17 dual Racks" and I found these Pictures of JF 17 block 3 carrying some type of missile on twin Racks ,i believe that these are actually SD-10s on Dual racks because SD-10/PL-12 in twin Racks was a feature promised for JF 17 block 3, if not I don't know which missile this is, here are the Pictures:

 

[Angel of War]

I was going through Twitter and had typed "JF 17 dual Racks" and I found these Pictures of JF 17 block 3 carrying some type of missile on twin Racks ,i believe that these are actually SD-10s on Dual racks because SD-10/PL-12 in twin Racks was a feature promised for JF 17 block 3, if not I don't know which missile this is, here are the Pictures:
View attachment 134471View attachment 134472

As long as it isn't a PL15 we are good .

 

[Super Flanker]

As long as it isn't a PL15 we are good .

I have not heard about PL-15 having dual racks on JF 17 block 3. Most probably it is SD-10 only. Because even Pakistanis have not claimed that JF 17 block 3 will carry PL 15 in Twin Racks, only SD-10 has been said.

 

[Angel of War]

There is no way that JF-17 block 3 will be able to carry PL-15 in twin Racks, I have not heard about PL-15 having dual racks on JF 17 block 3. Most probably it is SD-10 only. Because even Pakistanis have not claimed that JF 17 block 3 will carry PL 15 in Twin Racks, only SD-10 has been said.

Read this

China’s most advanced air-to-air missile destined for export market

New version of China’s most advanced air-to-air missile the PL-15 is destined for export market

amp.scmp.com

 

[Angel of War]

I have not heard about PL-15 having dual racks on JF 17 block 3. Most probably it is SD-10 only. Because even Pakistanis have not claimed that JF 17 block 3 will carry PL 15 in Twin Racks, only SD-10 has been said.

the article says that pakistan is receiving PL15

 

[Super Flanker]

Read this

China’s most advanced air-to-air missile destined for export market

New version of China’s most advanced air-to-air missile the PL-15 is destined for export market

amp.scmp.com

What do you want to point out about this Article? It says that PL-15 Export Variant has a range of 145 kms so what you are trying to acertain here?

 

[Super Flanker]

the article says that pakistan is receiving PL15

We are aware about this for a long time that Pakistan Airforce will get PL-15, what I was having doubts about was whether they will be able to carry those PL-15 BVRs in twin Rack configuration.

 

[Super Flanker]

I wanna point out that pakistan is indeed getting PL15 so the threat of the missile is very much real

Yes we know that PL-15 is a threat for our Indian Airforce but we have Meteor to counter PL-15 Missile so you don't have to worry about that Much. I only want to know whether JF-17 block 3 Will be able to have PL-15s in twin configuration, that is what I wanted to know.

 

[Angel of War]

Yes we know that PL-15 is a threat for our Indian Airforce but we have Meteor to counter PL-15 Missile so you don't have to worry about that Much.

The problem is that only Rafale carries Meteor in its arsenal . Whereas pakistan can integrate PL15 on multiple JF17 squadrons after they get upgraded to block III standard

 

[Super Flanker]

The problem is that only Rafale carries Meteor in its arsenal . Whereas pakistan can integrate PL15 on multiple JF17 squadrons after they get upgraded to block III standard

Yeah I know that, but with regards to Upgradation to block 3 standard, are you trying to say here that they will be able to Upgrade all their JF-17 block 1s and Block-2s to block 3 standards?

I don't know but it seems unlikely that JF 17 block 1 will be fit to be Upgraded to Block 3 standards. I feel like only the Block-2 Aircrafts will be Upgraded to Block-3 standards.