JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[lixun]

What are combat radius of jf 17 , what is load bearing of its wing ,what are structural compromise Pakistan is doing due to lack of proper manufacturing capability as compared to china , how good are it's fbw system ,what kind of actuator it uses , how good is it's aerodynamic , how potent are older jf 17 nlocks , are they able to be modified to latest standard .


Evaluate all these ,and your conclusion will change from heaven to hell .

.if can't reply back we will explain it

I don’t want to comment on the performance of JF17. This should be Pakistan’s military secret. Even if you can find it, it may be a fake news released by Pakistan’s intelligence agency. I’m just explaining what it means to Pakistan.

 

[lixun]

The moment I saw a full complete sentence in English from a guy claiming to be Chinese assured me that you are not a Chinese.

On the Internet, you don’t know if you are opposite the President of the United States or the beggar downstairs from your house.

 

[Lonewolf]

I don’t want to comment on the performance of JF17. This should be Pakistan’s military secret. Even if you can find it, it may be a fake news released by Pakistan’s intelligence agency. I’m just explaining what it means to Pakistan.

Military secret ,engine efficiency is open info , fuel capacity is a open info ,that gives a rough idea of it's capability ,it can't be flown for more than 300 km radius ,that too with light aam loadout , nothing more than that , it's basically a point defence fighter , it can atmost reach border outpost of india , or they can use mid air refuelling and all , meanwhile india detects them and mobilize indian counterparts to take them down

 

[lixun]

Military secret ,engine efficiency is open info , fuel capacity is a open info ,that gives a rough idea of it's capability ,it can't be flown for more than 300 km radius ,that too with light aam loadout , nothing more than that , it's basically a point defence fighter , it can atmost reach border outpost of india , or they can use mid air refuelling and all , meanwhile india detects them and mobilize indian counterparts to take them down

Yes, JF17 has a small range and a small radar diameter, but JF17 does not need to fight in the vast South China Sea. Pakistan is relatively small. It only needs to fight on a narrow border. The same is true for LCA.

 

[lixun]

Mk1a is a sweet aircraft with extremely modular weapons integration and CLAWs

Honestly though at present, the number of units produced per year sucks and not even sufficient to meet local demands,
Plus it uses a lot of Brit components and will continue to use for atleast a good decade +



And we know nothing about the J10 maintenance or the serviceability rates, some argue J10 has a shit serviceability rate which keeps most aircraft grounded at times, hence the large number of aircraft in the PLAAF inventory

The question about the reliability of the J10 is groundless. There is a problem with the AL31 bearing lubricator. At present, nine J10s have been crashed in China, and eight of them were AL31 failures. The price of China’s J10 is cheap, and China alone can only have enough for one J10C about $40 million.
China has a large number of J7s that need to be replaced, so J10 production is very large

 

[lixun]

Recently in an exercise Thai gripen decimated j11 almost absolutely.
I won't be so sure if Chinese strategy is good. Time will tell.

Let me talk about the military exercises between China and Thailand in 2015. China dispatched j11a, that is, the su27sk assembled by China. The n001 radar is obviously inferior to the ps5a of Thailand,
If China sends j11b and 1493 radar performance is similar to apg63 (V1), BVR will not fail,

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Yes, JF17 has a small range and a small radar diameter, but JF17 does not need to fight in the vast South China Sea. Pakistan is relatively small. It only needs to fight on a narrow border. The same is true for LCA.

i hope you are not on drugs. LCA is way superior to JF17. LCA has a GE engine, unavailable to China. Engines and avionics are the main differentiation in a fighter aircraft. Tejas is way ahead of the upgraded MiG21 JF17 tin can that is flying on a 1970s airframe design. They will be swatted like flies in real combat. Lol.

 

[lixun]

i hope you are not on drugs. LCA is way superior to JF17. LCA has a GE engine, unavailable to China. Engines and avionics are the main differentiation in a fighter aircraft. Tejas is way ahead of the upgraded MiG21 JF17 tin can that is flying on a 1970s airframe design. They will be swatted like flies in real combat. Lol.

LCA
It uses a tailless delta wing, a small aspect ratio and an upper fixed air inlet. You don't understand if it is too complicated. The common point of these three designs is simplicity. The last one to use a tailless delta wing was Mirage 2000. It was in service in 1982. Since then, there has not been a third-generation or fourth-generation model that used this model. It has been nearly 40 years.
This kind of pneumatic layout is characterized by its simplicity, and simplicity must have its shortcomings. The disadvantage is that when the LCA is flying at supersonic speeds, the fixed air intake will cause a large increase in resistance, insufficient air intake, and a drop in engine thrust. In fact, the tailless delta itself is conducive to supersonic flight, but the Indians have chosen a fixed air inlet.
This led to the fact that although the initial design of the LCA had a maximum speed of Mach 1.9, the prototype only flew out 1.4M in the test.
The layout of the tailless delta wing is a simple layout, and its wing body is firmly combined (the contact surface is large), so its overload is usually very strong. The Phantom 2000 has a high maneuvering overload, and can often achieve 9G overload, and even 11G overload can be achieved in flight experiments. However, the maximum overload of our LCA in its flight test was as high as 5.5G.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

LCA
It uses a tailless delta wing, a small aspect ratio and an upper fixed air inlet. You don't understand if it is too complicated. The common point of these three designs is simplicity. The last one to use a tailless delta wing was Mirage 2000. It was in service in 1982. Since then, there has not been a third-generation or fourth-generation model that used this model. It has been nearly 40 years.
This kind of pneumatic layout is characterized by its simplicity, and simplicity must have its shortcomings. The disadvantage is that when the LCA is flying at supersonic speeds, the fixed air intake will cause a large increase in resistance, insufficient air intake, and a drop in engine thrust. In fact, the tailless delta itself is conducive to supersonic flight, but the Indians have chosen a fixed air inlet.
This led to the fact that although the initial design of the LCA had a maximum speed of Mach 1.9, the prototype only flew out 1.4M in the test.
The layout of the tailless delta wing is a simple layout, and its wing body is firmly combined (the contact surface is large), so its overload is usually very strong. The Phantom 2000 has a high maneuvering overload, and can often achieve 9G overload, and even 11G overload can be achieved in flight experiments. However, the maximum overload of our LCA in its flight test was as high as 5.5G.

Like I said only 2 things matter to eke out 80-90% performance:
1. Engine
2. Avionics
Maybe 3. Potentially air to air refueling to increase range depending on war theater.

in both 1 and 2, LCA is miles ahead of JF17. On number 3, JF17 does not even have such a capability.
The issues you point out play only a marginal role in air war.

the fact remains that the cheap RD93 klimov engine in JF17 is suspect and has a more than acceptable fire hazard (I.e engine flameout). So, the JF17 can just burn up in the middle of an air war.

you can read how inferior the RD93 or ws13 klimov is here:

WS13 / RD-33 / RD-93 engine

www.globalsecurity.org

JF17 is just not air war worthy. At best it can be used as a trainer.

And you can review a lot of articles- you will find that most importance is always given for engines and avionics and in these, Chinese versions are behind Russian tech which itself is behind western tech. So, yeah, we can safely stop comparing JF17 with LCA, as JF17 is simply not going to be involved in an air war. Period.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Lets finish this gandmasti now and here:

How true is Pakistan’s claim of JF-17 Blunder Being Indigenous?

1. It’s airframe is made up of Aerospace grade aluminium, which no paki company whether public or private provides or has capability to produce, so it is obvious that it is being imported from China which produces tonnes of them. They only make wings out of imported materials. The only Pakistani thing in Airframe is the door hinges they use in canopy, and that too only if they don’t import that also from China.

2. The JF-17 airframe itself isn’t fully made here, the whole fuselage is imported from Chengdu Aircraft Corporation of China. Here it is visible a JF-17 Airframe being unloaded from an Ilyushin IL-78 Aircraft of the PAF which delivered this airframe to Pakistan and subsequently PAC Kamra. It uses imported landing gears fabricated by CAC China.

3. It uses Russian RD-93 Klimov engine directly imported from Russia, as well as a Russian Gryazev Shipunov GSh-23 autocannon also imported from Russia.

4. JF-17 uses Martin Baker’s zero-zero ejection seat.




5. Uses Chinese KLJ-7 Radar.

6. Uses a CAC Fly-by-wire system.

7. Uses Chinese made cockpit display systems and a Chinese HUD (Pakistan has no company capable of producing holographic HUDs whether public or private nor Pakistan has any display fabrication plant).

8. Uses a Chinese Radar Warning Receiver (as per PAC Website).

9. Uses a Chinese IFF (Identification of Friend and Foe) system (as per PAC Website).

10. And basically any electronic stuff it uses is of Chinese origin (as per PAC website, they call it Joint Venture). Not surprising considering there is no electronics manufacturing company in Pakistan whether public or private. It is a Chinese aircraft made by CAC named FC-1 Xiaolong license assembled in Pakistan by PAC Kamra with imported stuff and renamed as JF-17 Thunder.

So, we hence can confirm that Jadeed Tareen Asmani Ladaka Taiyyara JF-17 Blunder is fully Rawalpindigenous…!!!

JazakAstagAlhumdulMashaSubhanInshallah!!!!!

 

[Marliii]

Lets finish this gandmasti now and here:

How true is Pakistan’s claim of JF-17 Blunder Being Indigenous?

1. It’s airframe is made up of Aerospace grade aluminium, which no paki company whether public or private provides or has capability to produce, so it is obvious that it is being imported from China which produces tonnes of them. They only make wings out of imported materials. The only Pakistani thing in Airframe is the door hinges they use in canopy, and that too only if they don’t import that also from China.
View attachment 98153


2. The JF-17 airframe itself isn’t fully made here, the whole fuselage is imported from Chengdu Aircraft Corporation of China. Here it is visible a JF-17 Airframe being unloaded from an Ilyushin IL-78 Aircraft of the PAF which delivered this airframe to Pakistan and subsequently PAC Kamra. It uses imported landing gears fabricated by CAC China.
View attachment 98146


3. It uses Russian RD-93 Klimov engine directly imported from Russia, as well as a Russian Gryazev Shipunov GSh-23 autocannon also imported from Russia.
View attachment 98150
View attachment 98158




4. JF-17 uses Martin Baker’s zero-zero ejection seat.




5. Uses Chinese KLJ-7 Radar.
View attachment 98148


6. Uses a CAC Fly-by-wire system.

7. Uses Chinese made cockpit display systems and a Chinese HUD (Pakistan has no company capable of producing holographic HUDs whether public or private nor Pakistan has any display fabrication plant).

8. Uses a Chinese Radar Warning Receiver (as per PAC Website).

9. Uses a Chinese IFF (Identification of Friend and Foe) system (as per PAC Website).

10. And basically any electronic stuff it uses is of Chinese origin (as per PAC website, they call it Joint Venture). Not surprising considering there is no electronics manufacturing company in Pakistan whether public or private. It is a Chinese aircraft made by CAC named FC-1 Xiaolong license assembled in Pakistan by PAC Kamra with imported stuff.
View attachment 98157


So, we hence can confirm that Jadeed Tareen Asmani Ladaka Taiyyara JF-17 Blunder is fully Rawalpindigenous…!!!

View attachment 98154
View attachment 98155

Any porky dreaming of project azm will be as brain dead as cauliflower now

 

[FalconSlayers]

Any porky dreaming of project azm will be as brain dead as cauliflower now

Project Azm Hazam is basically screwdrivergiri of a Wumao aircraft, The MALE UAV made under Project Azm is also a copy of CH-4 UAV. Pakis have only China now.

 

[Marliii]

Lets finish this gandmasti now and here:

How true is Pakistan’s claim of JF-17 Blunder Being Indigenous?

1. It’s airframe is made up of Aerospace grade aluminium, which no paki company whether public or private provides or has capability to produce, so it is obvious that it is being imported from China which produces tonnes of them. They only make wings out of imported materials. The only Pakistani thing in Airframe is the door hinges they use in canopy, and that too only if they don’t import that also from China.
View attachment 98153


2. The JF-17 airframe itself isn’t fully made here, the whole fuselage is imported from Chengdu Aircraft Corporation of China. Here it is visible a JF-17 Airframe being unloaded from an Ilyushin IL-78 Aircraft of the PAF which delivered this airframe to Pakistan and subsequently PAC Kamra. It uses imported landing gears fabricated by CAC China.
View attachment 98146


3. It uses Russian RD-93 Klimov engine directly imported from Russia, as well as a Russian Gryazev Shipunov GSh-23 autocannon also imported from Russia.
View attachment 98150
View attachment 98158




4. JF-17 uses Martin Baker’s zero-zero ejection seat.




5. Uses Chinese KLJ-7 Radar.
View attachment 98148


6. Uses a CAC Fly-by-wire system.

7. Uses Chinese made cockpit display systems and a Chinese HUD (Pakistan has no company capable of producing holographic HUDs whether public or private nor Pakistan has any display fabrication plant).

8. Uses a Chinese Radar Warning Receiver (as per PAC Website).

9. Uses a Chinese IFF (Identification of Friend and Foe) system (as per PAC Website).

10. And basically any electronic stuff it uses is of Chinese origin (as per PAC website, they call it Joint Venture). Not surprising considering there is no electronics manufacturing company in Pakistan whether public or private. It is a Chinese aircraft made by CAC named FC-1 Xiaolong license assembled in Pakistan by PAC Kamra with imported stuff.
View attachment 98157


So, we hence can confirm that Jadeed Tareen Asmani Ladaka Taiyyara JF-17 Blunder is fully Rawalpindigenous…!!!

View attachment 98154
View attachment 98155

JazakAstagAlhumdulMashaSubhanInshallah!!!!!

Porks dont even have 200 if17 according to me and with some 50 f16s thats the only thing they have that is not aa good as trash in any war. we will have su30s, rafales,tejus and s400

 

[johnq]

LCA
It uses a tailless delta wing, a small aspect ratio and an upper fixed air inlet. You don't understand if it is too complicated. The common point of these three designs is simplicity. The last one to use a tailless delta wing was Mirage 2000. It was in service in 1982. Since then, there has not been a third-generation or fourth-generation model that used this model. It has been nearly 40 years.
This kind of pneumatic layout is characterized by its simplicity, and simplicity must have its shortcomings. The disadvantage is that when the LCA is flying at supersonic speeds, the fixed air intake will cause a large increase in resistance, insufficient air intake, and a drop in engine thrust. In fact, the tailless delta itself is conducive to supersonic flight, but the Indians have chosen a fixed air inlet.
This led to the fact that although the initial design of the LCA had a maximum speed of Mach 1.9, the prototype only flew out 1.4M in the test.
The layout of the tailless delta wing is a simple layout, and its wing body is firmly combined (the contact surface is large), so its overload is usually very strong. The Phantom 2000 has a high maneuvering overload, and can often achieve 9G overload, and even 11G overload can be achieved in flight experiments. However, the maximum overload of our LCA in its flight test was as high as 5.5G.

This is totally incorrect. The spring loaded side doors on the Tejas inlets can open or close based on air flow pressure, and hence can accomodate a top speed up to mach 1.8 without any airflow problems.
Secondly, the Tejas has been tested up to 9G. The 8+G limit is only at the very beginning of the flight when the fuel is at maximum. This has to do with G load forces due to the extra weight. However, by the time the Tejas reaches a dogfight, this fuel weight would be lesser, and then the Tejas can maneuver up to 9G. This is why the G loading is listed as 8+G and not 8G, because as the load gets lesser (due to Tejas using up fuel in flight), its G load reaches its maximum of 9G.
The true genius of the Tejas design is in low wing loading through the use of the compound delta design combined with vortex formation in an unstable platform with quadruplex digital fly by wire using high speed actuators on several control surfaces simultaneously. What this means is that Tejas' low wing loading in conjunction with features mentioned above will allow it to turn at a higher rate than aircraft with higher wing loading at a higher altitude where the air gets thinner, and the Tejas will be able to do it in a far more controllable way, without losing altitude.

 

[lcafanboy]

Another Junk coming to PAF.....

 

[Roland55]

Another Junk coming to PAF.....

Can they really afford the J-10?

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Another Junk coming to PAF.....

It's not junk , probably because chyna too uses it .

 

[lcafanboy]

Can they really afford the J-10?

Yup. They can export their Girls to China for bride and sex slaves as payment for J-10C, since they no longer need them as they prefer Goats and donkeys...

 

[lcafanboy]

It's not junk , probably because chyna too uses it .

It's not even as capable as 70s era F-16 block 70....
Maybe it's just as capable as block 50 which is still inferior than IAF upgraded mirage 2K.

 

[lixun]

Can they really afford the J-10?

J10 is okay, 55 million US dollars-60 million US dollars