J20 Stealth Fighter

huaxia rox

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it was not just him but many tended to think j20 got a similar size of f-111 back then.......

no assessment of a weapon can be 100% correct..........and the only way to give an accurate assessment to a weapon may be fightting a real war........

how ever his qualification is important......
 

p2prada

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how ever his qualification is important......
His qualification doesn't make him right.

There will be many people with different qualifications and will assume the wrong things.

Like the entire US establishment with all their qualified personnel thought the Mig-31 was an air superiority fighter for years until the Soviets said it was an interceptor.
 

huaxia rox

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when there is no settallite image you surely dont know how big size j-20 is so you can only find some references close to j-20 in some pictures to compare and try to draw some preliminary conclusion and then it turns out to be not that accurate.....this is something probably inevitable........

experts also make mistakes but why people tend to listen to them??? because there is something called 'chance'...........the chance where an assessment from qualified experts being wrong is much lower........and if you insist you surely can choose to listen to words from tom dick or harry instead.......

just like you put the entire US establishment was wrong once.....but how often is that???
 

average american

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1 i am talking about some stealth planes you are saying WW2 history........not that we dont know history but history is history and who is only good at hisotry should go to high school and uni to become a history teacher........

2 my little suggestion for you in this specific thread is the only thing you need to say is "chinese tech is old and copy....russian is old......only the us tech is advanced....period"..........why keep turnning up saying the say thing every single time??? not that its not allowed....i am just curious.....
How many of the top 500 universites in the world are in China or Russia, how many nobel prizes for science by chinese liiving in mainland china or Russia won. Universities US 168 China 8 Russia 2

Nobel Prizes US 270 China 2 Russia 8
 

ersakthivel

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when there is no settallite image you surely dont know how big size j-20 is so you can only find some references close to j-20 in some pictures to compare and try to draw some preliminary conclusion and then it turns out to be not that accurate.....this is something probably inevitable........

experts also make mistakes but why people tend to listen to them??? because there is something called 'chance'...........the chance where an assessment from qualified experts being wrong is much lower........and if you insist you surely can choose to listen to words from tom dick or harry instead.......

just like you put the entire US establishment was wrong once.....but how often is that???
So as per your opinion no one can guess the size of J-20 by looking at the host of pictures released till now with many humans surrounding it!!!!!!!!!

Can't you make out how big it is from the following picture? If you have any doubts ask any 12 year old and he will tell you.

Don't rate the intelligence of kopp with your level of intelligence.




Don't make people laugh.
 
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W.G.Ewald

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His qualification doesn't make him right.

There will be many people with different qualifications and will assume the wrong things.

Like the entire US establishment with all their qualified personnel thought the Mig-31 was an air superiority fighter for years until the Soviets said it was an interceptor.
During World War II and through the Korean War, fighters were classified by their role: heavy fighter, interceptor, escort fighter, night fighter, and so forth. With the development of guided missiles in the 1950s, design diverged between fighters optimized to fight in the beyond visual range (BVR) regime (interceptors), and fighters optimized to fight in the within visual range (WVR) regime (air superiority fighters). In the United States, the influential proponents of BVR developed the fighters with no forward-firing gun, such as the original F-4 Phantom II, as it was thought that they would never even need to resort to WVR combat. These aircraft would sacrifice high maneuverability, and instead focus on remaining performance characteristics, as they presumably would never engage in dogfight with enemy fighters.
Air superiority fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

p2prada

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when there is no settallite image you surely dont know how big size j-20 is so you can only find some references close to j-20 in some pictures to compare and try to draw some preliminary conclusion and then it turns out to be not that accurate.....this is something probably inevitable........
The problem here is you are quoting his "wrong" analysis. The article I posted was from the same that you posted in the previous page.

experts also make mistakes but why people tend to listen to them??? because there is something called 'chance'...........the chance where an assessment from qualified experts being wrong is much lower........and if you insist you surely can choose to listen to words from tom dick or harry instead.......
All fine. But you were the one who posted his wrong analysis. I was pointing out something along the lines what you are saying now.
 

huaxia rox

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Barrage jamming of spectrum would mean even you cannot use the spectrum.
thats supposed to answer WHEN you going to use their radars??are you trying to say: NEVER???

It depends on how maneuverable missiles can be too.
theory is always in theory.....if in theory what guidance system do you think your missile will be using?? radar??IR seeker? cant be camare can it?...... then how to hit the stealth target in the first place using missiles when all the stealthy measures have been taken IN THEORY to avoid being traced??? you open the weapon bay you probably end up like the downed f-117 so better dont shoot the missile.......then thats the time when you have to think of using cannon.....shells dont have seekers...they just make their ways to the target.....so to aim or avoid being hit you need manuverbility......if you want to say It also depends on the strike range of your BVRAAM........well if its mainland vs taiwan.....i guess very often you dont have the chance to compare that..........

It doesn't matter who I am when he himself said his stealth assessment is bogus.

Anyway, Kopp believes the J-20 is bigger than F-111. He also says it is either an interceptor like the Mig-31 and will primarily deal with taking out support aircraft like AWACS and tankers or it is a strike aircraft which can load itself with LGBs to take out USN ships.

Chengdu J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter Prototype / A Preliminary Assessment


But we know that it is neither as big as the F-111 nor is it an interceptor like the Mig-31.

The article is pure imaginary speculation.
1 dont overstae it.....the assessment dosnt day ' J-20 is bigger than F-111'....it says 'The J-XX/J-20 is a large fighter, similar in size to an F-111.' ....

2 back then many were comparing F-111 and j-20 ''The J-20's basic dimensions most closely match the F-111 bomber retired from service in the late 1990s.''http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2011/07/26/stealth-fighter-or-bomber/...........can you therefore say just because one of your guess is wrong the whole artile or assessment is wrong??? 'What is known so far, though, is that given its size (an overall length of about 70 feet), the twin-engine J-20 will likely serve as a strike fighter, like the F-111 Aardvark, rather than as an air superiority fighter.'http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2012/08/06/china-developing-a-2nd-stealth-fighter/.............so the diplomat is bogus right??.......

3 the russia shipbuilder also said it was chinese bricks that screwed up Vikramaditya last year which then turned out to be a joke then are you going to stop believing what ever they have to say in the future??

4 what role do you think j-20 is going to play in the future?? i dont know now for sure because no one offical there can tell me that but when you say others are wrong you must have some inside news about its role.....mind sharing me with some???

5 and the quotes i used from the assessment were good......not that i dont have issues with the radar like he claimed prc hadnt demonstrated AESA etc.............can you find one report that is totally right in military to evaluate weapons??? and how wrong is the length??? 20m 21m 22m??bigger than f-22 at least.......what a big deal???

6 the bottom line is i am not persuading anyone to believe anything here.....you like the report then read it....if you dont thats ok.....no need to make fuss about some ongoing project and act like you were the only one who knows everything...........if you are so correct why did you say 'his stealth assessment is bogus'............or 'Kopp believes.....' seriously the assessment was written by two men.....how can you be so sure it was kopp but not peter said that part??? just because kopp tends to have positive views on j-20 and negative views on PAKFA and probably on F-35 then he made all the indians enemy??? well.....when i brought up the assessment i ve expected someone like you to turn up to slam ......its a usual practice of indians in other forums.......
 
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huaxia rox

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So as per your opinion no one can guess the size of J-20 by looking at the host of pictures released till now with many humans surrounding it!!!!!!!!!

Can't you make out how big it is from the following picture? If you have any doubts ask any 12 year old and he will tell you.

Don't rate the intelligence of kopp with your level of intelligence.




Don't make people laugh.
1 every one can guess the figure by comparing j-20 with its surreding references like j-10 j-7 jf-17 other moving veicheles and tech guys there.........but thats a guessing only.....

2 you dont know how tall a man in the picture is unless you know him personally......unless you know it for sure that no disinformation is being done there to select people taller or shorter than average chinese on purpose......unless you know how high there shoes are.......unless they stand stabely not bending back or onwards and that point is taken by camera.......unless your camera is using telephoto lens (long focus lens) to avoid protantial distorted effects created by using wide-angle lens which are usually in mobil phone and thats for the height only because the men are under the wings so thats already a good position for us to guess......

3 to know the length of j-20 via pictures you probably need a whole j-10 or other things you ve known to be placed right over or extremely close to j-20 in one line.....and the angle they are placed in one line has to be same and the line they are placed has to be 100% parallel to the surface of your lens..........the chance you get a photo of that is probably less then the chance where a shooting star hits you when you go out then how do you know j-20 characteristics figures via photos accurately??

4 why this will do??http://www.aame.in/2012/12/china-j-20-j-15-fighter-aircrafts.html because the airport is flat no bumps and holes........so j-20 and others are parallel in that flat from the angle of settallite that is very far away from the ground and using long focus lens to shoot images only.....very perfect view i must say........then you can try to get your conclusion probably for sure (actually no need for j-15 here......settallite images have the unit length for you to use...just like a map)...........other means like looking into pictures can be wrong in fact which may lead to the j-20 closed to j-111 theory.......

dont know how you rate your iq but what i said should be known especially for boys above 12 in prc........no one cares to even laught here i guess.....
 
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huaxia rox

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How many of the top 500 universites in the world are in China or Russia, how many nobel prizes for science by chinese liiving in mainland china or Russia won. Universities US 168 China 8 Russia 2

Nobel Prizes US 270 China 2 Russia 8
how this known fact leads to stealth vs marnuverbility?? or can j-20 be more stealthy???
 

huaxia rox

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these days a fighter jet is too expensive and time consuming to make......i think there could be pure bomber in the foreseable future but no pure fighter at all......an air superiority fighter is no more there.....or you can say an air superiority fighter also needs the ability of ground attacks etc.....you can attack and also intercept when in need.............

just like the su-27 platform based on which you can go su-34.......in another word nothing can be 'pure' in the stage of further development.....even when it comes to j-10A its ground attack role has been being dramatcially increased with all the coming ups of new subsystems and weapons............

in another word you can find a successor of su-27 series but no successor of su-25 .because PAKFA should be a next gen su-27 plus su-25......a combination.......so the role of j-20???
 

p2prada

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in another word you can find a successor of su-27 series but no successor of su-25 .because PAKFA should be a next gen su-27 plus su-25......a combination.......so the role of j-20???
Russia has 4 fifth gen programs today. One is the PAKFA as you know it. The other is the offshoot, FGFA.
Then there is the PAKDA which is in the design phase. I think you already know about these.

Finally there is the 5th gen Su-25 replacement.

Russian air force to order Su-25 replacement
 

huaxia rox

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actually i dont know there will be a real successor of su-25......so may be i was wrong to say that.....but.....

1 my personal understanding (i guess many got the same opinion) is.....to make new generation of attack aircrafts for countries like the us and russia is possible .........but why the us failed to demonstrate any newly designed real or pure attack aircrafts?? not because they dont have the technology but economically or politically they dont think its worth doing any more.....as a consequence we can see upgraded f18 and newly made f35 (and of course the cancelled fb22 plan really cant help my argument here...but i heard upgrate plan to give f22 more ground attack ability is still there).....do all the A something job......

2 there are basically two ways to make a fighter with sufficent ground attack ability.....1 way is like f-35 which i dont like too much.....yes it has something even f22 doesnt have but to combine all the missions and features makes it really weird in many ways..............2 way is like the platform of su-27 with which we got by and large all we need......by making different variants......and the best variant i like is su34.......

3 so would there be any possibility one day t-50 can increase the size of weapon bay and have some other changes so it becomes a new su34?? if thats possible i think its a very good way to save money and take advantage of all the techs you already have.......

4 and for j-20 the only thing i hope is it can adopt the method of sukhoi....at least to be made like next gen of su30 largely a fighter with adequate ability of ground attack...hopefully along with another variant of next gen su34 largely an attack craft or light bomber with adequate ability of air fight.........
 

p2prada

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J20!

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Flying with its SRAAM rail deployed and weapons bay closed.



J20 carrying what I assume is a dummy of the PL10:








The missile measures in at 2.9m-3.0m and with a ratio of 6.7 between the J20 and the missile itself, that gives a length of 19.5m-20.5m for the aircraft.

Comparable missiles and their corresponding length in meters:

IRIS-T - 2.936m
A-Darter - 2.98m
ASRAAM - 2.9m
AIM-9X - 3.01m
R-73 - 2.93m
 
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Decklander

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Flying with its SRAAM rail deployed and weapons bay closed.



J20 carrying what I assume is a dummy of the PL10:








The missile measures in at 2.9m-3.0m and with a ratio of 6.7 between the J20 and the missile itself, that gives a length of 19.5m-20.5m for the aircraft.
Comparable missiles and their corresponding length in meters:

IRIS-T - 2.936m
A-Darter - 2.98m
ASRAAM - 2.9m
AIM-9X - 3.01m
R-73 - 2.93m
Pls be sure of the stuff you post here. The missile on the pylon is R-77 old gen not even R-77M2. Pls try to differentiate between R-77 & R-73.
 

huaxia rox

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he has said.....its PL-10.....R-77 is a medium range AAM....usually not supposed to be put in there......
 

J20!

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Have you seen PL10 before?. I should say the same to you.

Maybe you misunderstand me. I assume that the missile is a dummy, of that I'm unsure, but that it's a PL10 SRAAM, I'm quite certain. R77 is medium range AAM, not an SRAAM. Being an MRAAM, and coming in at a length of 3.6 m and a diameter of 200mm, it wouldn't fit in the J20's side bays to begin with.

And please notice the differences between the two before making another sweeping statement like that. Note the aft fins and the seeker head, Very different missiles..



I only mentioned R73 because it, like the PL10, is a new generation short-range AAM and is of a similar length ala AIM 9X, IRST, etc.

PS. You could try to correct people "here", minus the condescending tone, which just leads to unnecessarily heated exchanges.
 

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