J20 Stealth Fighter

[Adux]

Dude - chill! You are too hyper about your "Pro-Capitalist" and Anti-Communist tirades. China is about as "commie" as Indian politicians are honest. As for capitalism - it is not all hunkey dorey as you think sitting in Kerala backwaters. I live in a very Capitalist society and it ain't all paved with gold bro - unless you work for Goldman Sachs.

You have absolute no clue about what I am , or what I do for a living. My views are mine so are my passions.

 

[badguy2000]

Regarding those that I highlighted (emboldened), how would you compare India with PRC w.r.t. the following?

• Locomotives
• Tractors, Earth-Movers, Bulldozers, Lorries, Dumpers, Heavy Load Carriers, Cranes
• Satellite Launch Vehicles

I'd like to know your perspective.

locomotive: frankly speaking, the fastest highspeed trains already proves that CHinese railway/trains tech already in the leading league in the world. At least, china-made locomotives are not less advanced than that made in EU and Japan and many countries including USA are inducting CHinese highspeed railway tech.

[*]Tractors, Earth-Movers, Bulldozers, Lorries, Dumpers, Heavy Load Carriers, Cranes

well, the above toys made by CHina might still less qulity than that made in EU,Japan and USA,but absolutely has better costperformance than that made in EU,Japan and USA.
BTW, German has global best heavy engineering tech.
the global biggest crane is made in CHina .It is located in Daliang shipyard,where AC is being built.
the rescuing crane for the mine dsaster in Chile last year is also made in CHina.

[*]Satellite Launch Vehicles
well, franky speaking, the civilian satellite lauch tech of USA,Russia,EU and Japan are ahead of CHina.

of course, the military satellite lauch tech is another case.....maybe only USA and Russia are ahead of CHina.

 

[Adux]

that is why it is so hard for india to work out LCA and Arjun while CHina can work out J10,J11 and J20 so quickly.

It was easy for you, because the real work was done in Russia and Israel.

The defference between India and CHina has nothing to do with "ethnic" "moral" or "intellectual property",but with the difference between industry base of the two counties.

Laughable, all it has to do was with Political - Geo political situation, Why India never built a SSN or Nuclear Force before 1998, NPT. China was a reconginzed nuclear power and could do all that, while India couldnt.

 

[pmaitra]

You have absolute no clue about what I am , or what I do for a living. My views are mine so are my passions.

I have absolutely no clue why you are diverting from the topic of the thread, and that is all what matters to me.

I have said this before. Your discussions should go to: Communism in India - The final Stride or a new Face; or open a new thread with a title that best suits your topic(s) of interest.

Yup, I dont want photoshop chicoms to see reality,

Also, kindly explain what you mean by 'photoshop chicoms'? Would you like it if some Chinese made similar comments about Indians?

I'd recommend you read the rules and regulations of the forum.

 

[pmaitra]

locomotive: frankly speaking, the fastest highspeed trains already proves that CHinese railway/trains tech already in the first league in the world. At least, china-made locomotives are not less advanced than that made in EU and Japan and many countries including USA are inducting CHinese highspeed railway tech.

Is there any Chinese company that beats CLW, DLW, BHEL, RCF or ICF? Please enlighten me.

[*]Tractors, Earth-Movers, Bulldozers, Lorries, Dumpers, Heavy Load Carriers, Cranes

Is there any Chinese company that beats Tata, Mahindra, Ashok Leyland, BEML, JCB or HVF Jabalpur? Please enlighten me.

well, the above toys made by CHina might still less qulity than that made in EU,Japan and USA,but absolutely has better costperformance than that made in EU,Japan and USA.
BTW, German has global best heavy engineering tech.
the global biggest crane is made in CHina .It is located in Daliang shipyard,where AC is being built.
the rescuing crane for the mine dsaster in Chile last year is also made in CHina.

Toys don't matter. For now, I'll stick to #67.

[*]Satellite Launch Vehicles
well, franky speaking, the civilian satellite lauch tech of USA,Russia,EU and Japan are ahead of CHina.

of course, the military satellite lauch tech is another case.....maybe only USA and Russia are ahead of CHina.

Is there any Chinese rocket that beats the PSLV? In fact, is there any rocket anywhere in the world that beats the PSLV? What are your thoughts? Agree, India is behind PRC only w.r.t. sending a man into space.

 

[badguy2000]

Is there any Chinese company that beats CLW, DLW, BHEL, RCF or ICF? Please enlighten me.


Is there any Chinese company that beats Tata, Mahindra, Ashok Leyland, BEML, JCB or HVF Jabalpur? Please enlighten me.


Toys don't matter. For now, I'll stick to #67.

well, guy,frankly speaking, the products of those companies really can hardly be known outside India.

Protected by heavy tarrif and quotas, India's companie are usually lack of competitiveness in international market, just as pet birds protected by cages can not competite those wild bird.
that is why finished industry-products made in India can hardly been seen in international market

I doubt that those india companies could survive without the protection of tarriff or quotas.

Instead,CHina domestic industry-products market is much more open than India's . China might be the industy-product market with the most fierce competition in the world. If one company could be the survivor of Chinese domestic makret, then it already proves that the company has world-class competitiveness.

that is why made in China can be seen everyhwere in the world.

Is there any Chinese rocket that beats the PSLV? In fact, is there any rocket anywhere in the world that beats the PSLV? What are your thoughts? Agree, India is behind PRC only w.r.t. sending a man into space.

well, I know what PSLV is ......it is not as advanced as you think..and its reliablity is still questionable.

 

[Minghegy]

I found this, Pogosyan talked about T-50

....
"We have all grounds to believe that there will not be tough competition on the world market," Sukhoi director Mikhail Pogosyan said.
....
"Apart from America, the only other fifth-generation project is Russia's, while the Europeans have given up such plans," Pogosyan said.

"Probably the Chinese will try and promote such a product, but I think they face an immense amount of work to make their product competitive," he said.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2010/03/12/idINIndia-46877820100312?sp=true

Now I question the connection in the article.

 

[pmaitra]

well, guy,frankly speaking, the products of those companies really can hardly be known outside India.

Protected by heavy tarrif and quotas, India's companie are usually lack of competitiveness in international market, just as pet birds protected by cages can not competite those wild bird.
that is why finished industry-products made in India can hardly been seen in international market

I doubt that those india companies could survive without the protection of tarriff or quotas.

Instead,CHina domestic industry-products market is much more open than India's . China might be the industy-product market with the most fierce competition in the world. If one company could be the survivor of Chinese domestic makret, then it already proves that the company has world-class competitiveness.

that is why made in China can be seen everyhwere in the world.

Badguy2000 my friend, I was comparing India and PRC, not the rest of the world. I am doing so because you said India has a long way to go. I am not saying India is ahead of US, German or Russian companies.

well, I know what PSLV is ......it is not as advanced as you think..and its reliablity is still questionable.

AFAIK, it is the best Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle.

May I request you to kindly re-read post #72 and respond point to point? Of course, if you don't want to or are unable, I totally understand.

Thanks.

 

[Adux]

Also, kindly explain what you mean by 'photoshop chicoms'? Would you like it if some Chinese made similar comments about Indians?

I'd recommend you read the rules and regulations of the forum.

The biggest problem with Indians right here, self-righteous to the point of cutting down your own for others let alone enemies, as for what it means you can google it,

 

[Minghegy]

The reason Deng Xiaoping opened up the economy in 1978 was not so much because he had this wonderful vision about the future, no matter what you (or the CCP) may claim now. It was because after Mao's "cultural revolution", the whole chinese economy was in shambles. China had no manufacturing, no development, no banks and even the traditional farming economy had been devastated by Mao's crazy-ass ideas. China opened up to receive loans from Japan (!!), their long time enemy - it is as if Pakistan decides to open up their economy to India in 2018 (may happen who knows?)! Back then, with no internet and no newspaper/ TV other than state controlled ones, it was not that difficult for the Chinese government to control the populations mindset. As Japanese banks and companies started investing in China and the Chinese economy recovered, USA and Europe got interested, primarily to counter the Soviet influence in China. Anyway, since the 60's it had waned significantly, due to intense d**k measurements between Khruschev and Mao and by early 80's soviet influence in China was almost gone. By the time the Soviet empire fell, China was copying soviet style political control, while pursuing western style capitalism (sugar-coated with "communism").
India was still holding onto the "non-aligned" past - a legacy of the Nehru-Gandhi family beliefs. In one way India copied western political systems, while on the other hand, following a control economy like the soviets! A study in contrast - right! Anyway, in 1992, reform came to India not because of anyones vision, but just like China, because Indian economy was in deep doo-doo. It was either open up or go bankrupt for India. So, open up we did - as much as was good for the ruling elites.

Now, make no mistakes, neither in China, nor in India we have true capitalism. In both countries what we have is a more capitalistic economy than before. In true capitalism, there would be almost no organized government. No monopolies, no oligopolies. The market will be "perfect" in terms of information and have same opportunities (to make money) for everyone. As such, this does not exist anywhere - not even in the USA. And it is a good thing too -if it did exist, we would eventually see super-powerful greedy corporations raping the societies/ nature for a few dollars more profit (closest is obviously USA nowadays).
Anyway, coming back to the point. China is economically 3 times bigger than India and has twice the millitary strength because of a historic fact - their economic crisis came 15 years before India's did and their leaders chose to open up their economy 15 years before Indian's did. India has a 15 years 8% compounded GDP growth to catch up to ... guess how much that comes to? ~300% - or three times - the difference between chinese and Indian economy.

Thanks for your long reply.
You have lots of subjective and false ideas about China's opening, I don't agree these ideas, but let's keep the ideas individually, partially because my poor English too hard to write a long reply.
As my observation, India is missing another new historical opportunity, but I can't say it out, if it's true you'd better don't know it.

 

[badguy2000]

Thanks for your long reply.
You have lots of subjective and false ideas about China's opening, I don't agree these ideas, but let's keep the ideas individually, partially because my poor English too hard to write a long reply.
As my observation, India is missing another new historical opportunity, but I can't say it out, if it's true you'd better don't know it.

well, in a word, India is missing another shift of global manufacturing.

After WWII, there were 3 shift of manufacturing in the world.

the first one took place in 1950s-early 1960s, labour-intensive manufacturing shifted from N.America/west europe to Japan, and helped Japan finish industrialization.

The second one took place during late 1960s-early 1980s. Labour intensive manufacturing shifted fom Japan,west europe and N.America to "4 Aisan tigers"( Taiwan,S.Koea,Hongkong and Singapore" and helped them become industrialized economies.

The third one took place during late 1980s-now,Labour intensive manufacturing moved from "4 Aisan tigers"( Taiwan,S.Koea,Hongkong anSingapore") . Coastal CHina defeated Southeast Asia and won most labour intensive manufacturing moved from "4 asian tigers" . It helped coastal China almost finish industrialization and made CHina the second largest ecnomomy in the world.

now, due to the rising labour cost and land cost, the manufacturing base in costal China have to move out to somewhere else ,for lower labour cost,land cost and good infrastructure.But india's infrastructure is so terrible and India is losing the competitions to inland China and Vietnam .

so,what india is missing the the 4th global manufacturing shift after WWII ......

whenever the industry shift appears, India always makes poor preparation for it and misses the chance again and agains, tha is why India was 8th biggest industry power in 1947 but then went down and down and got surpassed by Taiwan,South Korea,Mylasia,Tailand and China ..........etc

 

[Adux]

Nothing of that says that J-20(is MiG-1.44 clone), j-10(lavi clone), H-6(Tu-16 Badger), J-11(Su-27SK), Jf-17(Cancelled MiG project), HQ-16, QBZ-95, Artillery , Tanks, the list goes on.

 

[Ray]

As my observation, India is missing another new historical opportunity, but I can't say it out, if it's true you'd better don't know it.

What is this historical opportunity India is missing?

We are really keen to know of it.

 

[Adux]

What is this historical opportunity India is missing?

We are really keen to know of it.

Still havent lost your playfulness Brigardier, Good Show!

 

[p2prada]

S-300 is not extraatmospheric, you need general knowledge.

LOL. If you mean exo atmospheric(not extra) then S-300 and its variants are all you have.

HQ-10 is the S-300PMU-1 which you are currently license manufacturing. Then you bought the S-300PMU-2 which you call HQ-18. Then you have an upgraded version called HQ-15 which features extended range and is said to be copied from S-300PMU-2 and is manufactured without license.

You have 1500+ such missiles and your entire BMD system as well as doctrine is just a copy of the Russian BMD right down to the radar and the ground crew.

1962? you don't know Chinese real thoughts, I can tell you: India will naturally divide to several parts sooner or later, the border problem will be solved naturally, China wants development now, a war towards anyone will hurt China.

In India there are only 2 groups who want India divided. One is ULFA which has been given a terrorist organization identity and is therefore banned. The other is the Naxals/Maoists who are merely hiding in forests and running away from the Police.

Kashmir is another, but the situation there is not as dramatic as Xinjiang or Tibet nowadays.
You have more to worry about disintegration than India is.

 

[pmaitra]

The biggest problem with Indians right here, self-righteous to the point of cutting down your own for others let alone enemies, as for what it means you can google it,

Some like name calling, ad hominem attacks or ethnic/racist jibes. Some respect friends and foes alike. I want to belong to the latter group. Those in the former can expect to be cut down time and again because, in a debate, I don't consider them to be my own.

PM requested for any further response not related to this thread.

 

[badguy2000]

Badguy2000 my friend, I was comparing India and PRC, not the rest of the world. I am doing so because you said India has a long way to go. I am not saying India is ahead of US, German or Russian companies.



AFAIK, it is the best Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle.

May I request you to kindly re-read post #72 and respond point to point? Of course, if you don't want to or are unable, I totally understand.

Thanks.

well, guy, indeed you know litttle about the industry outside India.


it is the offical website of ZPMC, one Chinese companies most odinary people never hear of ,including CHinese . but it makes 85% of seaport heavy engineering facilities,including cranes.

http://www.zpmc.com/index.html

In fact, the crane which UK uses to build their AC HMS Elizbeth is also provided by ZPMC.
the cranes which USA uses to build their warship are also provided by ZPMC...
and the crane which Indian navy use to build your warship might be exactly provided by ZPMC too.

guy ,I am sure that you never know the name of Chinese manufacturer of electric generators which get billions-dollar order form India,although the manufacturer is also the first one which worked out Untral-supercritical eletric-generators in the world

 

[nimo_cn]

Is there any Chinese company that beats CLW, DLW, BHEL, RCF or ICF? Please enlighten me.


Is there any Chinese company that beats Tata, Mahindra, Ashok Leyland, BEML, JCB or HVF Jabalpur? Please enlighten me.


Toys don't matter. For now, I'll stick to #67.


Is there any Chinese rocket that beats the PSLV? In fact, is there any rocket anywhere in the world that beats the PSLV? What are your thoughts? Agree, India is behind PRC only w.r.t. sending a man into space.

Marvelous post!


But I have several questions to ask.

First, How do you define "beat"?

Second, do you mean if Chinese companies don't "beat" Indian companies, then Indian companies perform better than Chinese ones? If so, then can you tell me how many Indian companies have "beaten" Chinese companies?

By the way, I have never heard of any of the companies you mentioned except Tata.

 

[Adux]

Some like name calling, ad hominem attacks or ethnic/racist jibes. Some respect friends and foes alike. I want to belong to the latter group. Those in the former can expect to be cut down time and again because, in a debate, I don't consider them to be my own.

PM requested for any further response not related to this thread.

Chinese Communist are Chicoms, Chinese Communist who gets paid to post on the internet, usually trolling are chicombots. I really dont care if you dont consider me part of your social group, this kind of over zealous, over the top intellectual, 'fairness' etc, is the same reason Indians are pushovers and easily divided. If this is an Indian forum, then chicoms and ****'s are acceptable words. Best of luck with your cutting down debate, I dont really care about it, though.

 

[singa]

Chinese Communist are Chicoms, Chinese Communist who gets paid to post on the internet, usually trolling are chicombots. I really dont care if you dont consider me part of your social group, this kind of over zealous, over the top intellectual, 'fairness' etc, is the same reason Indians are pushovers and easily divided. If this is an Indian forum, then chicoms and ****'s are acceptable words. Best of luck with your cutting down debate, I dont really care about it, though.

Hi, guy, you are too radical and will lower the lever of this forum. Please talk based on truth but imaging politely.