J20 Stealth Fighter

[Minghegy]

We will decide wether we will go to war or not. If you call yourself our friend, then you have absolutely no right to arm China and indirectly Pakistan (RD-93), Russia enjoys priority and a place in the Indian heart, which is not worthy, it was for Soviets not for Russians. As time goes, and our money coffers are near empty, Russia will no longer be India's primary supplier, it will be India.

I'm not a Russian, and I call myself as Indian's friend.

 

[Adux]

Right, Indians can build anything on their own if they want to. But they just don't want to do it , so they are buying tanks, aircrafts, warships, even rifles.

Thanks, I get it. It is not a matter of ability, but a matter of diligence.

Na, it is called not re-inventing the wheel! and respecting other people's IPR, wait you are not aware of that concept.

 

[p2prada]

USA just want to sell you F35s, you are not the nine counties that jointed the development. F35 is a white elephant, they are anxious to sell more to apportion the costs. EF-2000 is good, but not a top project comparable to F35/FGFA. Only the Russian are willing to share the latest tech with India.

Right, everything is with money, so a strong China that stimulating India to buy more weapons and techs is in accord with the interest of Russia, this is not difficult to understand.

Then you were the one who brought it in the first place. EF-2000 is the best European aircraft in the fray and they want us as a development partner. F-35, well it is available for us and the problem with F-35 is we are not interested in it. So, it's more about requirement rather than simply getting into a hundred different aircraft programs.

We have JVs with Russia for FGFA and MRTA. Then we have JV with Israel for modern air, ground and naval AESA radars along with modern Anti-Missile systems. We are also working with Israel in self protection systems and also network centric operations. Most or all of this will be superior to their own systems that their forces are using. So, there is nothing for us to be insecure about.

We are getting better weapons and materials from not just Russia but from many countries. Most of this is related to economic nature of the deals. We have the money to throw at them and that's the reason for them to come to us with their best stuff. That's about it.

If China is allowed weapon imports, then you will jump in with us too. All economics.

 

[badguy2000]

Then you were the one who brought it in the first place. EF-2000 is the best European aircraft in the fray and they want us as a development partner. F-35, well it is available for us and the problem with F-35 is we are not interested in it. So, it's more about requirement rather than simply getting into a hundred different aircraft programs.

We have JVs with Russia for FGFA and MRTA. Then we have JV with Israel for modern air, ground and naval AESA radars along with modern Anti-Missile systems. We are also working with Israel in self protection systems and also network centric operations. Most or all of this will be superior to their own systems that their forces are using. So, there is nothing for us to be insecure about.

We are getting better weapons and materials from not just Russia but from many countries. Most of this is related to economic nature of the deals. We have the money to throw at them and that's the reason for them to come to us with their best stuff. That's about it.

If China is allowed weapon imports, then you will jump in with us too. All economics.

well, many sections of Industry chains are still missing in India. it will have to take decades for India to fix those missing sections .

Before India fixs those missing sections, India can not finish real indigenious aircrafts.

 

[Minghegy]

Then you were the one who brought it in the first place. EF-2000 is the best European aircraft in the fray and they want us as a development partner. F-35, well it is available for us and the problem with F-35 is we are not interested in it. So, it's more about requirement rather than simply getting into a hundred different aircraft programs.

We have JVs with Russia for FGFA and MRTA. Then we have JV with Israel for modern air, ground and naval AESA radars along with modern Anti-Missile systems. We are also working with Israel in self protection systems and also network centric operations. Most or all of this will be superior to their own systems that their forces are using. So, there is nothing for us to be insecure about.

We are getting better weapons and materials from not just Russia but from many countries. Most of this is related to economic nature of the deals. We have the money to throw at them and that's the reason for them to come to us with their best stuff. That's about it.

If China is allowed weapon imports, then you will jump in with us too. All economics.

India can buy anything, but why India still behind China's progress?
China's national anti-missile defense system already in service.

 

[ace009]

India can buy anything, but why India still behind China's progress?
China's national anti-missile defense system already in service.

Actually, all this d**k measurement between Indians and Chinese seems too fanboyish to me. Honestly, China started opening up their economy in 1978, India in 1992. 15 years of gap. China started moderninsing their industrial production system in mid 1980s, India in late 1990s - almost 15 years of difference. China took the "manufacturing" production part because of cheap labor, huge boom in foreign direct investment (FDI) in the 1980s when there were not other competitions for the FDI (read US, european and Japanese investments). By the time India came into the game (mid 1990s), Eastern Europe, Russia, South America, South-east Asia were all competing with India for FDI in the manufacturing sectors, and China was still the king! As such, China only increased their lead in both FDI (~66% of all manufacturing FDI goes to China) and in manufacturing production (~70% of all manufacturing) over everybody else. So, India took the software and services path, where there was still some "market". As a result, India has become the biggest destination for services investment and services outsourcing. You all know this history. You are all mature adults. Still, if you behave like fanboys, and try to demean the two great nations of China and India, it only demeans you.

China will have problems with a growing India because of energy, FDI and other competition. Same way India will have problems with China. There might (and very well will be sometime or other) border skirmishes to show who is top dog in the region. In all probabilities it will end in a stalemate since neither country will like to escalate it too much lest it becomes a "nuclear" conflict. On India's side, India will like not to lose ground to Chinese superior forces. On the Chinese side, they will try not to lose face if they open the conflict. Both the countries are matured politically, both have big economic stakes in each other. Both of them know that fighting each otehr for long/ too hard will cause a general weakness in their politico-mililtary system, which other enemies can exploit. So, covert wars and skirmishes is what will go on.

However, for India, Pakistan is a different issue. Primarily because of the failing political system in Pakistan and the rise of militant religious fundamentalism. Someday, that rabid dog might just go back and bite it's new friend, the Chinese. I think China should think about that too.

 

[p2prada]

well, many sections of Industry chains are still missing in India. it will have to take decades for India to fix those missing sections .

Before India fixs those missing sections, India can not finish real indigenious aircrafts.

You are talking about India n the 1990s, not in 2011. We do have full industry chains in most sectors. FYI, the entire MKI production is done in India. China still imports radars and engines from Russia.

We have Arihant too. The entire thing is made in India. Nothing on it has been sourced from outside, from what we know. The hull design, reactor, coolant mechanisms, weapons, sonar etc all developed and made in India.

As for full scale indigenous aircraft, neither do you. Your engines are still Russian, the most critical component. Also the systems you have and the systems we got have huge difference in technology. We are getting state of the art equipment that was designed as JVs with fireign entities. So, huge difference.

Whatever we are missing, we will not be taking decades to fix it. Everything can be done within this decade alone. With the economy we have compared to yours we are already competing with you guys in delivery. We have already exported state of the art helicopters. We have exported indigenous design softwares to Airbus. Foreign countries have also expressed interest in Brahmos and Nag with high scope for future deliveries. Not bad for a country that is the 12th largest economy and with ''broken'' industry chains compared to 2nd largest economy with full industry chain, is it not?

India can buy anything, but why India still behind China's progress?
China's national anti-missile defense system already in service.

It's not yours. You just copied Russian S-300s to claim that. Ours is fully home grown and on a radar system that is superior to yours.

We have technological superiority in many conventional systems over China militarily.

If you try anything like 1962 again, the result will be the opposite. You need your army for 2 really big fronts, India and Taiwan. Technically 3 fronts, India, Taiwan and internal turmoil with internal turmoil being the biggest front.

 

[badguy2000]

You are talking about India n the 1990s, not in 2011. We do have full industry chains in most sectors. FYI, the entire MKI production is done in India. China still imports radars and engines from Russia.

We have Arihant too. The entire thing is made in India. Nothing on it has been sourced from outside, from what we know. The hull design, reactor, coolant mechanisms, weapons, sonar etc all developed and made in India.

As for full scale indigenous aircraft, neither do you. Your engines are still Russian, the most critical component. Also the systems you have and the systems we got have huge difference in technology. We are getting state of the art equipment that was designed as JVs with fireign entities. So, huge difference.

Whatever we are missing, we will not be taking decades to fix it. Everything can be done within this decade alone. With the economy we have compared to yours we are already competing with you guys in delivery. We have already exported state of the art helicopters. We have exported indigenous design softwares to Airbus. Foreign countries have also expressed interest in Brahmos and Nag with high scope for future deliveries. Not bad for a country that is the 12th largest economy and with ''broken'' industry chains compared to 2nd largest economy with full industry chain, is it not?



It's not yours. You just copied Russian S-300s to claim that. Ours is fully home grown and on a radar system that is superior to yours.

We have technological superiority in many conventional systems over China militarily.

If you try anything like 1962 again, the result will be the opposite. You need your army for 2 really big fronts, India and Taiwan. Technically 3 fronts, India, Taiwan and internal turmoil with internal turmoil being the biggest front.

guy, if what you wrote were to be posted on some neutral websites such as Keypublish,it would be a laughing stock.

you SU30MKI are still "assemble" of components imported from Russia,you nuke subs still have not nuke reaction in.

And time would soon tell people how Russia defence industry is being overtaken by CHinese one. In fact, the appearance of J20 is just one of many indice of China's "overtaking" Russia.

 

[Adux]

India can buy anything, but why India still behind China's progress?
China's national anti-missile defense system already in service.

if the benchmark is china, then we have already over taken you, what you do, takes no effort nor is it worthy of any praise in the scientific sense. You copy and steal. Is J-11(Sukhoi) anything to be proud off, is J-10(Lavi) anything to be proud off, WZ-10(French Daphne), J-20(MiG 1.44); Lets not even get into Radar's and Naval Sector, its even more embarassing for you. You stand because of the closed eyes of Russians, French and Israeli's, currently only the Russians.

 

[Adux]

guy, if what you wrote were to be posted on some neutral websites such as Keypublish,it would be a laughing stock.

you SU30MKI are still "assemble" of components imported from Russia,you nuke subs still have not nuke reaction in.

And time would soon tell people how Russia defence industry is being overtaken by CHinese one. In fact, the appearance of J20 is just one of many indice of China's "overtaking" Russia.

Learn English,................by the way, we might assemble, all the while you steal. Sorry I will take my assembling over your disregard for human hardwork,

 

[badguy2000]

if the benchmark is china, then we have already over taken you, what you do, takes no effort nor is it worthy of any praise in the scientific sense. You copy and steal. Is J-11(Sukhoi) anything to be proud off, is J-10(Lavi) anything to be proud off, WZ-10(French Daphne), J-20(MiG 1.44); Lets not even get into Radar's and Naval Sector, its even more embarassing for you. You stand because of the closed eyes of Russians, French and Israeli's, currently only the Russians.

well If J20 had not wings, you surely would say that J20 were one copy of flying whisk broom of Hary Port

 

[Minghegy]

Actually, all this d**k measurement between Indians and Chinese seems too fanboyish to me. Honestly, China started opening up their economy in 1978, India in 1992. 15 years of gap. China started moderninsing their industrial production system in mid 1980s, India in late 1990s - almost 15 years of difference. China took the "manufacturing" production part because of cheap labor, huge boom in foreign direct investment (FDI) in the 1980s when there were not other competitions for the FDI (read US, european and Japanese investments). By the time India came into the game (mid 1990s), Eastern Europe, Russia, South America, South-east Asia were all competing with India for FDI in the manufacturing sectors, and China was still the king! As such, China only increased their lead in both FDI (~66% of all manufacturing FDI goes to China) and in manufacturing production (~70% of all manufacturing) over everybody else. So, India took the software and services path, where there was still some "market". As a result, India has become the biggest destination for services investment and services outsourcing. You all know this history. You are all mature adults. Still, if you behave like fanboys, and try to demean the two great nations of China and India, it only demeans you.

China will have problems with a growing India because of energy, FDI and other competition. Same way India will have problems with China. There might (and very well will be sometime or other) border skirmishes to show who is top dog in the region. In all probabilities it will end in a stalemate since neither country will like to escalate it too much lest it becomes a "nuclear" conflict. On India's side, India will like not to lose ground to Chinese superior forces. On the Chinese side, they will try not to lose face if they open the conflict. Both the countries are matured politically, both have big economic stakes in each other. Both of them know that fighting each otehr for long/ too hard will cause a general weakness in their politico-mililtary system, which other enemies can exploit. So, covert wars and skirmishes is what will go on.

However, for India, Pakistan is a different issue. Primarily because of the failing political system in Pakistan and the rise of militant religious fundamentalism. Someday, that rabid dog might just go back and bite it's new friend, the Chinese. I think China should think about that too.

Thanks for your long reply.

Economic opening is important, but not directly connect to military projects, and other factors also should be considered, you can buy advanced weapons and production lines from other counties, it's a huge advantage for force modernization, when you fetch out billions and billions dollar many advanced military counties want help you, ascribing the result to economic opening is arbitrary.

You have to admit Deng Xiaoping was a great man, after a deep research and think he predicted world war would not happen in next decades, peace and development would be the trend of the world, don't forget he got this conclusion in 1978, he was a real wise politician, the 15 years delay is not accidental, you opened in 1992 because you didn't have real politician. So, what if such wise decisions apply to military development?

China and Pakistan has no interest conflict in a long future, I know you mean the religious extremism, but the possibility is pretty low.

 

[Adux]

well If J20 had not wings, you surely would say that J20 were one copy of flying whisk broom of Hary Port

If that was your attempt at humor, I suggest you copy paste something already done on the internet.
All the while I will term it EPIC FAIL!

 

[Minghegy]

It's not yours. You just copied Russian S-300s to claim that. Ours is fully home grown and on a radar system that is superior to yours.

We have technological superiority in many conventional systems over China militarily.

If you try anything like 1962 again, the result will be the opposite. You need your army for 2 really big fronts, India and Taiwan. Technically 3 fronts, India, Taiwan and internal turmoil with internal turmoil being the biggest front.

S-300 is not extraatmospheric, you need general knowledge.

1962? you don't know Chinese real thoughts, I can tell you: India will naturally divide to several parts sooner or later, the border problem will be solved naturally, China wants development now, a war towards anyone will hurt China.

 

[Minghegy]

if the benchmark is china, then we have already over taken you, what you do, takes no effort nor is it worthy of any praise in the scientific sense. You copy and steal. Is J-11(Sukhoi) anything to be proud off, is J-10(Lavi) anything to be proud off, WZ-10(French Daphne), J-20(MiG 1.44); Lets not even get into Radar's and Naval Sector, its even more embarassing for you. You stand because of the closed eyes of Russians, French and Israeli's, currently only the Russians.

Hehe, another instance China is copying Su-33 and is going to put it on carriers.
Weapon is weapon, that should be soaked with enemy's blood, talking ethics is fun.

 

[Adux]

Hehe, another instance China is copying Su-33 and is going to put it on carriers.
Weapon is weapon, that should be soaked with enemy's blood, talking ethics is fun.

Wow Sensae! That is deep.
Use your weapon, stain it with blood, but dont call it yours, because it isnt yours. You stole it from the Russians.

 

[Adux]

S-300 is not extraatmospheric, you need general knowledge.

1962? you don't know Chinese real thoughts, I can tell you: India will naturally divide to several parts sooner or later, the border problem will be solved naturally, China wants development now, a war towards anyone will hurt China.

You got lucky in 1962, thank god nobody teaches you about 1967 and 1988.
So the true face of the chicom comes out! If India divides, China will be glassbowl before that.

 

[Minghegy]

Wow Sensae! That is deep.
Use your weapon, stain it with blood, but dont call it yours, because it isnt yours. You stole it from the Russians.

Let's pray war will never happen.

 

[Minghegy]

You got lucky in 1962, thank god nobody teaches you about 1967 and 1988.
So the true face of the chicom comes out! If India divides, China will be glassbowl before that.

China has an united central government since 2200 years ago, India just was a geographical name before 18xx.
If the energy crisis comes, you can't afford the administrative cost.

 

[smartindian]

India can buy anything, but why India still behind China's progress?
China's national anti-missile defense system already in service.

India buys everything , but china steals every thing , see the differences