J20 Stealth Fighter

[MiG-29SMT]

Here is good OSINT on J20 RCS,
It has good frontol stealth again not in range of
F22 or F35 but good enough to track, lock and fire on MKI before MKI tracks it.

View attachment 132458

RCS is not fixed, the image you have post is only how it scatters the waves from some given directions frontally due to the very swept radome and wings (by the way it happens to in Tejas or MiG-29) by RCS is also dependent upon power density and wave frequency, small waves bounce like balls, but it does not happen the same with bigger waves, a more powerful radar also detects the Same J-20 at longer distances, a MiG-21 will not detect the J-20 at the same distance a MiG-31 will simply because tha MiG-31 has a much more powerful radar and can detect the J-20 at longer range and same is Su-35.

Does it give some advantage faceting or flat sloped sides, yes, but only upon some directions.

What J-20 does is force a more powerful radar on Su-30MKI which is by the way an expensive way of forcing the enemy of spending in a better radar, why? numbers our propagandist sexy lady says J-20 are build like bread, well that is not true, a more expensive aircraft always means less numbers and longer time of production.

So what they want to do? the theory is a J-20 will down 8 Su-30MKI but it will be beaten a few times, well that is stupid, even the Americans know that because the enemy can dodge missiles, and air bases can be destroyed like in 1967.

There are Cruise missiles and other missiles to destroy air bases, in reality they can not destroy so many enemy aircraft because some missiles will hit drones or fail, and WVR combat will mean F-22 or J-20 can be beaten, and replacing down aircraft is out of the question.

So then F-15EX is a more realistic way of dealing the enemy, since these J-20 or even F-22 are too expensive to be downed they send drones which can be jammed.

If F-22 fires 6 AIM-120D very likely versus a MiG-31 or Su-57 some will fail simply because speed means far far to down and getting close even a MiG-21 with Python V can down the J-20.

So what they do, J-20 is deterrance but is more propaganda than real capability, even F-35 is crap, slow and sluggish, and some nations know it.

By far in modern times the best is speed, some stealth and advanced avionics but remember higher speeds means hotter aircraft easy to get on IRST

slower the aircraft easier to get with missiles and stealth RAM will tear down at fast speeds

 

[space marine]

RCS is not fixed, the image you have post is only how it scatters the waves from some given directions frontally due to the very swept radome and wings (by the way it happens to in Tejas or MiG-29) by RCS is also dependent upon power density and wave frequency, small waves bounce like balls, but it does not happen the same with bigger waves, a more powerful radar also detects the Same J-20 at longer distances, a MiG-21 will not detect the J-20 at the same distance a MiG-31 will simply because tha MiG-31 has a much more powerful radar and can detect the J-20 at longer range and same is Su-35.

Does it give some advantage faceting or flat sloped sides, yes, but only upon some directions.

What J-20 does is force a more powerful radar on Su-30MKI which is by the way an expensive way of forcing the enemy of spending in a better radar, why? numbers our propagandist sexy lady says J-20 are build like bread, well that is not true, a more expensive aircraft always means less numbers and longer time of production.

So what they want to do? the theory is a J-20 will down 8 Su-30MKI but it will be beaten a few times, well that is stupid, even the Americans know that because the enemy can dodge missiles, and air bases can be destroyed like in 1967.

There are Cruise missiles and other missiles to destroy air bases, in reality they can not destroy so many enemy aircraft because some missiles will hit drones or fail, and WVR combat will mean F-22 or J-20 can be beaten, and replacing down aircraft is out of the question.

So then F-15EX is a more realistic way of dealing the enemy, since these J-20 or even F-22 are too expensive to be downed they send drones which can be jammed.

If F-22 fires 6 AIM-120D very likely versus a MiG-31 or Su-57 some will fail simply because speed means far far to down and getting close even a MiG-21 with Python V can down the J-20.

So what they do, J-20 is deterrance but is more propaganda than real capability, even F-35 is crap, slow and sluggish, and some nations know it.

By far in modern times the best is speed, some stealth and advanced avionics but remember higher speeds means hotter aircraft easy to get on IRST

View attachment 132460


View attachment 132461

slower the aircraft easier to get with missiles and stealth RAM will tear down at fast speeds

Whatever you are posting doesnt make sense when we are specifically saying Radar Cross Sectional Area...
We are not talking about IR signature whatever I have posted is from a privare research done on J20 RCS they have taken in account all the parameters they took into while doing same on F22.

The frontol J20 stealth is good enough to take care of any BVR engagement it will have will any non stealth plane definately its better than Su57.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Whatever you are posting doesnt make sense when we are specifically saying Radar Cross Sectional Area...
We are not talking about IR signature whatever I have posted is from a privare research done on J20 RCS they have taken in account all the parameters they took into while doing same on F22.

The frontol J20 stealth is good enough to take care of any BVR engagement it will have will any non stealth plane definately its better than Su57.

RCS is only the scattering pattern around the aircraft, a clean LCA Tejas is as good as J-20 in terms of Frontal stealth, but the fat J-20 carries internal weapons bays so it needs powerful engine to carry lot of fuel.

Disadvantage of Tejas is carrying weapons externally, F-18E can carry some stealth weapons pods

while not as dedicated as F-22 this version will enhance the F-18 to be a cheaper alternative, but politics means F-35 has to be supplied.

remember Tejas is small dificult to see and has Y intake duct, upgrading it like Su-57 with some weapons pods fairings on the wing will make a good and cheap alternative

 

[rockdog]

remember Tejas is small dificult to see and has Y intake duct, upgrading it like Su-57 with some weapons pods fairings on the wing will make a good and cheap alternative
View attachment 132464

Su57 always has micro management issues.

 

[space marine]

RCS is only the scattering pattern around the aircraft, a clean LCA Tejas is as good as J-20 in terms of Frontal stealth, but the fat J-20 carries internal weapons bays so it needs powerful engine to carry lot of fuel.

Disadvantage of Tejas is carrying weapons externally, F-18E can carry some stealth weapons pods

View attachment 132462

while not as dedicated as F-22 this version will enhance the F-18 to be a cheaper alternative, but politics means F-35 has to be supplied.

remember Tejas is small dificult to see and has Y intake duct, upgrading it like Su-57 with some weapons pods fairings on the wing will make a good and cheap alternative
View attachment 132464
View attachment 132463

Tejas RCS even in clean configuration will be around .5 to 1m2 and in fully loaded should be around 2 to 2.5m2.

Cant say its a stealthy design but it will be better than F16 or J10 though.

Rafale should also be in similar ballpark as Tejas once in A2A load.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Su57 always has micro management issues.

View attachment 132465

View attachment 132466

View attachment 132468

Su-57 is a better jet, this chinese pseudo critics hide a fact, Russia has checkmate which is basically the son of Su-57 and has no ventral fins no canards and single engine, plus Russia will Christianize the heathen of the east

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Tejas RCS even in clean configuration will be around .5 to 1m2 and in fully loaded should be around 2 to 2.5m2.

Cant say its a stealthy design but it will be better than F16 or J10 though.

Rafale should also be in similar ballpark as Tejas once in A2A load.

Tejas in my opinion can be upgrade like F-18E not with canards which in my opinion is not really so good but has a very clean fuselage even for stealth but of course needs to carry weapons externally, but pretty beautiful machine

 

[rockdog]

RCS is basically the main spikes (directions) electromagnetic bounds, what stealth does it sends the waves in a different direction from the emitting radar, but the waves bounce, so frontally a very swept wing and fuselage send most of the wave to the sides or back of the fuselage.

There are other factors changing RCS once is wave frequency and wave power density, small waves tent to reflect like a ball, but bigger waves do not.

There is no stealth that is pure propaganda, there is signature reduction but waves always bounce and there is always creeping waves, stealth only forces more powerful radars, and a more dense air radar system which is expensive.

Stealth also degrades aerodynamics, J-20 is a fat ugly aircraft, with flattened sides even on the forebody, bad transition from a boxy intake body to the engine nacelles (for area rule), from boxy to round generating big deal of drag, the wing is also too back, in reality is an ugly aircraft Rafale or Eurofighter are much more aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing.
View attachment 132453
What you really need in an aircraft to beat J-20 type aircraft is high speed like supercruise and several radars like Su-57 has, plus it has the jet nozzles too close from each other using TVC nozzles will require higher deflections than Su-30MKI thus in WVR combat it will get slower than Su-30MKI .

It has advantages, but also disadvantages invest in better radat and you can down them Serbia has shown Stealth is just propaganda

If you compare the length/width ratio, F35 and F22 is more fatter than J20, you can only say J20 is bigger plane than them .

And you never understand or tried to the design concept behind the shape of it.

The combat envrionment of J20 is very different than F22.
US has air bases all around East Asia, and it only needs less than 1000km operational radius, like it take off from S.Korea, would easily hit Beijing. That's why it only has 800KM operational radius, and with less internal fuel.


The role of J20 is to escort the coming stealth bomber H20 to hit at least Guam Island, which is 2600KM from coastal line. If H20 uses 1000KM crusie missile, it still needs 1500-1800km escort from J20.

J20 has very big internal fuel system than F22, which mean it must has bigger shape. Some said its operational radius is as long as 1500-2000KM.

Again, you claim you are engineer has technical background, but you never tried to understand the design concept of a plane.

So don't pretend something like "I am smart than plane designer" any more ... It even dosen't need any engineer backgroud, only common sense.

 

[rockdog]

plus Russia will Christianize the heathen of the east

No religion stuff please, makes no sense.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

If you compare the length/width ratio, F35 and F22 is more fatter than J20, you can only say J20 is bigger plane than them .

And you never understand or tried to the design concept behind the shape of it.

The combat envrionment of J20 is very different than F22.
US has air bases all around East Asia, and it only needs less than 1000km operational radius, like it take off from S.Korea, would easily hit Beijing. That's why it only has 800KM operational radius, and with less internal fuel.


The role of J20 is to escort the coming stealth bomber H20 to hit at least Guam Island, which is 2600KM from coastal line. If H20 uses 1000KM crusie missile, it still needs 1500-1800km escort from J20.

J20 has very big internal fuel system than F22, which mean it must has bigger shape. Some said its operational radius is as long as 1500-2000KM.

Again, you claim you are engineer has technical background, but you never tried to understand the design concept of a plane.

So don't pretend something like "I am smart than plane designer" any more ... It even dosen't need any engineer backgroud, only common sense.

there is a phrase you do not make politics with what you want but with what you have.

J-20 was designed without an ideal engine basically it was designed with Al-31 in mind and later WS-10s, the WS-15 was always considered a very late engine.
An AIM-120 is a very low drag high speed machine, a very aerodynamic thing

However AIM-120 has no intake, no need to have an air intake, take off and land, a canopy, fly at different speeds.

J-20 to the contrary has to add more elements such as air intakes, canopy, wing high lift devices such as flaps and so on

The Tornado ADV is an example of how the basic shape of the AIM-120 has been adapted to have high lifting devices in a bigger wing, air intakes, canopy and 2 engines.

Compared to AIM-120, J-20 only retains some similarities on the round engines nacelles to give it area rule, beside that the jet has been turned into a boxy fuselage

The Mirage 2000 retains more the basic AIM-120 very aerodynamic configuration

What you want to deny is stealth degrades aerodynamics, degrades its aerodynamic so much that even if you compare it to J-10, J-20 has a pretty coarse fuselage.

Stealth means flat sides, sloped sides ideally of rhomboid or diamond cross section, highly swept wings ideally a trapezoidal wing, no 90 degrees angles, these features do not conform always with aerodynamics.

On the F-16 even the intake D shaped cross section is to keep the round shape cross section of the engine and basic AIM-120, same is the fore body, DSI does not conform so well to the general round shape.

In fact the original intake has been kept showing DSI intake is not that great

 

[MiG-29SMT]

If you compare the length/width ratio, F35 and F22 is more fatter than J20, you can only say J20 is bigger plane than them .

And you never understand or tried to the design concept behind the shape of it.

The combat envrionment of J20 is very different than F22.
US has air bases all around East Asia, and it only needs less than 1000km operational radius, like it take off from S.Korea, would easily hit Beijing. That's why it only has 800KM operational radius, and with less internal fuel.


The role of J20 is to escort the coming stealth bomber H20 to hit at least Guam Island, which is 2600KM from coastal line. If H20 uses 1000KM crusie missile, it still needs 1500-1800km escort from J20.

J20 has very big internal fuel system than F22, which mean it must has bigger shape. Some said its operational radius is as long as 1500-2000KM.

Again, you claim you are engineer has technical background, but you never tried to understand the design concept of a plane.

So don't pretend something like "I am smart than plane designer" any more ... It even dosen't need any engineer backgroud, only common sense.

The round shape cross section of Mirage 400 with its well positioned canards have some stealth troubles

yes Mirage 4000 is very aerodynamic but allows creeping wave

so similar to edge diffraction a diamond shaped cross section is better

 

[MiG-29SMT]

If you compare the length/width ratio, F35 and F22 is more fatter than J20, you can only say J20 is bigger plane than them .

And you never understand or tried to the design concept behind the shape of it.

The combat envrionment of J20 is very different than F22.
US has air bases all around East Asia, and it only needs less than 1000km operational radius, like it take off from S.Korea, would easily hit Beijing. That's why it only has 800KM operational radius, and with less internal fuel.


The role of J20 is to escort the coming stealth bomber H20 to hit at least Guam Island, which is 2600KM from coastal line. If H20 uses 1000KM crusie missile, it still needs 1500-1800km escort from J20.

J20 has very big internal fuel system than F22, which mean it must has bigger shape. Some said its operational radius is as long as 1500-2000KM.

Again, you claim you are engineer has technical background, but you never tried to understand the design concept of a plane.

So don't pretend something like "I am smart than plane designer" any more ... It even dosen't need any engineer backgroud, only common sense.

If you compare J-20 to XB-1, you will understand why the Chinese jet has a less than ideal low drag fuselage, XB-1 boom supersonic is quiet similar to the AIM-120 main aerodynamic concept or the sears-haack body

See how the trapezoidal cross section of the air intakes and weapons bays changes in a less the subtle way, from boxy to round at the end tip of the engine nacelles

Rafale has round D shaped air intakes that merge with the round engine nacelles in a more smooth way, giving it a more homogeneous flow thus less turbulent air flow and drag


J-20 is by far a stealth machine with lower Radar cross section but less optimized aerodynamic configuration, thus more raw power is needed from the engines in order to balance that extra drag and fatter, bigger cross section and longer volume capacity

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

No religion stuff please, makes no sense.

See how the wing rear trailing strake on the MiG-1.44 is thinner, hinged , while on the J-20 is very thick and it ends abruptly on a very thick edge meaning it generates much more drag than on the MiG

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Third production batch of J-20 using WS-10C engines has hit 56 planes according to watchers checking bort numbers!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

J-20S twin-seater flying at CAC.

 

[lcafanboy]

USAF F-117 Copy....
Call them IPR Thieves, Robbers but...
BoseDK Chinese are Xerox machine of the world....