J20 Stealth Fighter

KurtisBrian

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Always a lot of fun and humor among Chinese. Haven't you noticed all the cartoons, girls and toy models on Chinese mil sites :)

I am surprised how serious this forum is!

(BTW, you can buy funny Chinese models on Amazon)


View attachment 131412
View attachment 131411
Wow, they have become VERY cheeky and comical. Even insinuating that Meng Wanzhou is a chubby girl?

comedy, art and self expression usually seem to accompany increased wealth. Just a sign of China's growing affluence.
 

space marine

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J-20 looks apt to perform air dominance role,
with large reach and big AESA it can track loaded MKI from a distance of ~300 kms and fire its PL15 from safe distance of 80-100 kms increasing the probability of hit.
MKI radar wont be able to detect J20 unless its 50 odd Kms although IRST might track it around 70 plus minus range but still too late for MKI.

Chinese seem it have built up nice aero complex with Y20 also coming online rapidly.
 

THESIS THORON

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J-20 looks apt to perform air dominance role,
with large reach and big AESA it can track loaded MKI from a distance of ~300 kms and fire its PL15 from safe distance of 80-100 kms increasing the probability of hit.
MKI radar wont be able to detect J20 unless its 50 odd Kms although IRST might track it around 70 plus minus range but still too late for MKI.

Chinese seem it have built up nice aero complex with Y20 also coming online rapidly.
seriously ?? you think that we will field mki against j20 :facepalm2:
 

space marine

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seriously ?? you think that we will field mki against j20 :facepalm2:
We fight with whatever we have.MKIs are backbone of IAF they will definately be in picture.
Even if ground or AWACS tracks J-20s in area no way MKIs will just leave the area to provide easy dominance it will come down to tactics at the end how to handle stealth in area.
Rafale will definately be more potent because of primarily passive nature of detection suit but again Chinese can deploy more number of J20s against Rafales also.
India needs to focus on ground based heavy duty systems one of the reasons India went ahead with S400 is chinese stealth.
Eventually India needs homegrown stealth AMCA otherwise we will need to collaborate with either Euros for 5th gen or buy US stealth eventually.
 

India Super Power

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J-20 looks apt to perform air dominance role,
with large reach and big AESA it can track loaded MKI from a distance of ~300 kms and fire its PL15 from safe distance of 80-100 kms increasing the probability of hit.
MKI radar wont be able to detect J20 unless its 50 odd Kms although IRST might track it around 70 plus minus range but still too late for MKI.

Chinese seem it have built up nice aero complex with Y20 also coming online rapidly.
What if we equip mkis with uttam aesa
What will be the range wrt the nose size
But even now mkis have a good radar but it's pesa but effective
Pl-15 is dual pulse solid rocket fuel missile so we know how it works and how effective it is
Anyway I am damn sure Chinese will be making sfdr counterpart but what's the name
 

space marine

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What if we equip mkis with uttam aesa
What will be the range wrt the nose size
But even now mkis have a good radar but it's pesa but effective
Pl-15 is dual pulse solid rocket fuel missile so we know how it works and how effective it is
Anyway I am damn sure Chinese will be making sfdr counterpart but what's the name
Even if we put massive AESA i.e Uttam it wont be much ahead in detection as PESA radar on MKI is a monster. Where it will help MKI is surviving heavy jamming environments with ease.
Detecting J20 through radar head on will be somewhat similar for both Aesa and Pesa although Aesa will definately will provide better and stable lock if J20 comes near
 

SexyChineseLady

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China has cranked up production of J-20s since induction of WS-10C in 2019. It will up the production again once the WS-15 is ready -- there are currently four production lines for J-20s at CAC, they are not yet fully maximized :)

(Same thing is happening with Y-20 with induction of WS-20. Lower production rates until a version they like and then crank up very hard -- example of Type 052X destroyers:

Type 052B - 2
Type 052C - 6
Type 052D - 25!!!)
 

SexyChineseLady

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You can see the 1st Air Division in Anshan trading its J-11Bs for J-20As!

@RupprechtDeino

The old no. 61026 is leaving ... the new one has arrived! J-11B no. 61026 and J-20A no. 61026 both from the 1st Air Division at Anshan.

DAD795BD-0DF5-4C4B-9E6A-8BAC8D9FDCF4.jpeg

3727E044-6DF7-471C-A375-491B9E925A6B.jpeg
 

FactsPlease

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You can see the 1st Air Division in Anshan trading its J-11Bs for J-20As!

@RupprechtDeino

The old no. 61026 is leaving ... the new one has arrived! J-11B no. 61026 and J-20A no. 61026 both from the 1st Air Division at Anshan.
Any idea how they are doing w/ those J11B? Just scrap them or transfer to other AB? I mean: there are still so many units still operating J-7 and J-8(?). Chinese defense forums are all arguing the pace of replacement ...
 

SexyChineseLady

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Any idea how they are doing w/ those J11B? Just scrap them or transfer to other AB? I mean: there are still so many units still operating J-7 and J-8(?). Chinese defense forums are all arguing the pace of replacement ...
Undoubtedly to be passed on. Probably after being upgraded to J-11BG standard. Among Chinese Flankers, only the J-11As (which are still locked into the original imported radar set and missiles) are scheduled to be phased out.
 

shiphone

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all the oldest flyable J7 varient(J-7H, manufactured in 1980s) have been redeployed to the one combat unit which owns over 50 jets. so the spare parts donated by old planes are sufficient for keeping this combat unit active. so is in the case of the only J8DF/F unit. BTW,the latest J8F varient are manufactured in early 2000s which are quite new actually..

the newer J7 varients- J7E/G/L were delivered in 1990s and early 2000s. nearly three hundred of them are still in good shape ...combat units are also reducing but the plane number per unit is incresing which means overstrength .



it seems that ONLY the Su27UBKs(trainer ,over 30 sets) are all almost gone, but quite some Su27SKs(nearly 50 imported in 1990s) are still flying due to the license production with TOT which brought the J11A and the sufficient spare parts supply... all around 100 J11As should be in the service except few lost in accidents. anyway the average age of J11A fleet is still around 20+ years old as the maiden flight of SAC manufactured J11 took placed in late 1998.

so the newer J11Bs won't phase out any time at this stage. even quite a small batch of J11B were manufactured recently.

quite some J11As have been MLUed during the scheduled overhaul. all-direction IR Imaging MAWS is the obvious Identifying Characteristic. this MAWS is also spotted on JF-17 Block 3...

the news image of yesterday...
 
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MiG-29SMT

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Even if we put massive AESA i.e Uttam it wont be much ahead in detection as PESA radar on MKI is a monster. Where it will help MKI is surviving heavy jamming environments with ease.
Detecting J20 through radar head on will be somewhat similar for both Aesa and Pesa although Aesa will definately will provide better and stable lock if J20 comes near
The Chinese use propaganda a lot, J-20 is not that stealth, has canards that need to flap since they are big support a lot of lift and control part of the aircraft, ventral fins that add for diffraction too, Stealth is propaganda since nothing can stop energy from exist and transform.

Electromagnetic waves will always bounce, no RAM can work for all frequencies, quantum mechanics does not allow that, so a lot of the propaganda is used in Stealth, PESA or AESA use electromagnetic waves.

J-20 has a slight advantage over Su-30MKI but not that great, BVR also is not a 100% kill, the Americans are building F-15EX because less missiles means less chances you hit a target, Su-30MKI also has systems to detect missiles fire it at them.

F-22 which is a more advanced jet than J-20 has low availability, they break a lot, and J-20 is same, and very likely there is no WS-15 engine, available now, why? when an engine is ready pictures are clear. Like type 30 and it still is in test
 

MiG-29SMT

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The one with white radome is the BG variant with AESA, updated avionics and uprated WS-10.

View attachment 132431
1642475061470.png


A prototype of the modernized Su-30SM fighter (tail number "001 red") built by the Irkutsk Aviation Plant (IAZ) - a branch of Irkut Corporation PJSC, 2021 (c) Alexey Korshunov / russianplanes.net (link)

(


"Currently, special flight tests (SLI) of the Su-30SM aircraft with the AL-41F-1S engine are being carried out (the production Su-35 fighters are equipped with the same engine - IF). It is planned that they will be completed by December 2023," the source said. .

According to him, the entire aircraft will have more than 150 test flights, about 10% have now been completed.

The source noted that at the moment, when upgrading the fighter to the level of the Su-30SM2, emphasis is placed on equipping it with additional aircraft weapons. The issue of installing AL-41F-1S engines on it and testing it starting from 2023 is being decided.

"In the process of carrying out the SLI on the Su-30SM (D) and Su-30SM2 aircraft, it is planned to issue a preliminary conclusion, which will allow, by decision of the Russian Defense Ministry, in 2023 to supply Su-30SM2 aircraft with AL-41F-1S engines," he said. agency interlocutor.

 

space marine

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The Chinese use propaganda a lot, J-20 is not that stealth, has canards that need to flap since they are big support a lot of lift and control part of the aircraft, ventral fins that add for diffraction too, Stealth is propaganda since nothing can stop energy from exist and transform.

Electromagnetic waves will always bounce, no RAM can work for all frequencies, quantum mechanics does not allow that, so a lot of the propaganda is used in Stealth, PESA or AESA use electromagnetic waves.

J-20 has a slight advantage over Su-30MKI but not that great, BVR also is not a 100% kill, the Americans are building F-15EX because less missiles means less chances you hit a target, Su-30MKI also has systems to detect missiles fire it at them.

F-22 which is a more advanced jet than J-20 has low availability, they break a lot, and J-20 is same, and very likely there is no WS-15 engine, available now, why? when an engine is ready pictures are clear. Like type 30 and it still is in test
I dont think J20 is non stealthy. Its in public eye for a while now.
There are good OSINT research available on its RCS, its not certainly in ball park of F22 or F35 but J20 supposed to have frontol RCS close to 0.1 m2 which is where it will engage its side RCS to from 1-3 m2 should be similar at rear.

So it will be easier to detect it from ground based radar rather than MKI I am not bringing Awacs here as those will be away from frontlines.
 

MiG-29SMT

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I dont think J20 is non stealthy. Its in public eye for a while now.
There are good OSINT research available on its RCS, its not certainly in ball park of F22 or F35 but J20 supposed to have frontol RCS close to 0.1 m2 which is where it will engage its side RCS to from 1-3 m2 should be similar at rear.

So it will be easier to detect it from ground based radar rather than MKI I am not bringing Awacs here as those will be away from frontlines.
RCS is basically the main spikes (directions) electromagnetic bounds, what stealth does it sends the waves in a different direction from the emitting radar, but the waves bounce, so frontally a very swept wing and fuselage send most of the wave to the sides or back of the fuselage.

There are other factors changing RCS once is wave frequency and wave power density, small waves tent to reflect like a ball, but bigger waves do not.

There is no stealth that is pure propaganda, there is signature reduction but waves always bounce and there is always creeping waves, stealth only forces more powerful radars, and a more dense air radar system which is expensive.

Stealth also degrades aerodynamics, J-20 is a fat ugly aircraft, with flattened sides even on the forebody, bad transition from a boxy intake body to the engine nacelles (for area rule), from boxy to round generating big deal of drag, the wing is also too back, in reality is an ugly aircraft Rafale or Eurofighter are much more aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing.
1642479926679.png

What you really need in an aircraft to beat J-20 type aircraft is high speed like supercruise and several radars like Su-57 has, plus it has the jet nozzles too close from each other using TVC nozzles will require higher deflections than Su-30MKI thus in WVR combat it will get slower than Su-30MKI .

It has advantages, but also disadvantages invest in better radat and you can down them Serbia has shown Stealth is just propaganda
 
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