J20 Stealth Fighter

[Cruise missile]

By PPP, China is already bigger than US, by GDP the latest prediction will be 2028, so 8 yrs to go. Considering China's military expenditures is 1.5% of GDP versus 4.5% of US, I think PLA still have enough excuse to ask money from government.

I don't quite worry about the money for operatons, China's manufacture strengh would cut the cost dramatically, just like USA made Segway was never below the $USD5000, but Xiaomi made it only for $USD150; even our farmers are using it for daily working ^_^:

Plus what you have seen now are all based on projects with 10-20 yrs of lead time. The R&D system even had enough money to make two pararall projects just for comparision, one is for EMALS one is for Steam catapult.

View attachment 73097

Those two systems were discussed in our military forums for 10 yrs and just released recently, during that time China's GDP is only 20% of US and 3 times of India; I remebered some Chinese members mentioned these projects here in DFI, everyone laughed about it, god knows how many hidden projects are running.

Anyway, strong manufcture base + enough fund + new tech applications would make the J20's product/operation cost acts as similiar curve as F35.

For 6G fighter, there are many news mentioned the development already began:

管中窥豹，从中国最先进的新型风洞看国产第六代战斗机长啥样？

管中窥豹，从中国最先进的新型风洞看国产第六代战斗机长啥样？

ishare.ifeng.com

Same as our catapult projects for carrier, The Institution 611, Institution 601 are already making competition now.

Then why u r stealing data from USA lol.

 

[rockdog]

the USA spends a lot of money in bases around the world and have black programs, China has no chances to beat the USA, the next American administration will focus in more China as a Military threat.

J-20 is a heavy fighter, it is expensive, labour intensive, needs lots of pieces, software.


40 aircraft might be the ideal, but remember Japan nor South Korea have a chance to succeed because aircraft are expensive.

J-20 for example to keep it flying must be in the $20000-30000 dollars per hour.

Tell me how many chinese can eat just with 20 J-20s flying one hour?

For strategic technologies, China never mind invest extra money for multiple plans:

Backup engine for C919 (currently is powered by LEAP-X1C ):
CJ1000A will be on air testing 2021:

http://www.twjgzx.com/nd.jsp?id=881

Backup engine for C929 (powered by PD-35?):
CJ2000 is completed as first prototype in 2020:

技术成熟！中国CJ2000AX涡扇发动机，推力达35吨级别！_腾讯新闻

技术成熟！中国CJ2000AX涡扇发动机，推力达35吨级别！

new.qq.com

 

[rockdog]

Then why u r stealing data from USA lol.

You buy US's innocence as you buy US's weapon? Maybe you would try stop buying C17 instead of keeping Kaveri alive？

 

[Cruise missile]

You buy US's innocence as you buy US's weapon? Maybe you would try stop buying C17 instead of keeping Kaveri alive？

Aaj lagta hai rockdog daru pee ke aaya hai

 

[Cruise missile]

You buy US's innocence as you buy US's weapon? Maybe you would try stop buying C17 instead of keeping Kaveri alive？

You don't worry we will do it anyhow but still we will not copy.

 

[rockdog]

You don't worry we will do it anyhow but still we will not copy.

Same to me, i don't care what you said if not stick to the topic.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

By PPP, China is already bigger than US, by GDP the latest prediction will be 2028, so 8 yrs to go. Considering China's military expenditures is 1.5% of GDP versus 4.5% of US, I think PLA still have enough excuse to ask money from government.

I don't quite worry about the money for operatons, China's manufacture strengh would cut the cost dramatically, just like USA made Segway was never below the $USD5000, but Xiaomi made it only for $USD150; even our farmers are using it for daily working ^_^:

Plus what you have seen now are all based on projects with 10-20 yrs of lead time. The R&D system even had enough money to make two pararall projects just for comparision, one is for EMALS one is for Steam catapult.

View attachment 73097

Those two systems were discussed in our military forums for 10 yrs and just released recently, during that time China's GDP is only 20% of US and 3 times of India; I remebered some Chinese members mentioned these projects here in DFI, everyone laughed about it, god knows how many hidden projects are running.

Anyway, strong manufcture base + enough fund + new tech applications would make the J20's product/operation cost acts as similiar curve as F35.

For 6G fighter, there are many news mentioned the development already began:

管中窥豹，从中国最先进的新型风洞看国产第六代战斗机长啥样？

管中窥豹，从中国最先进的新型风洞看国产第六代战斗机长啥样？

ishare.ifeng.com

Same as our catapult projects for carrier, The Institution 611, Institution 601 are already making competition now.

I have news for you, China will not rule the world, if you know history, you will know the hegemon never lets and emerging power replace it.


Who are those Hegemons? USA plus France, Germany, England Basicly the European Union in few words NATO.

Now let us say it in aircraft programs

NATO aircraft F-22, F-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen, Rafale, F-15, F-18E, F-16

So China has a few J-20 perhaps 60, the NATO powers have around 700 F-35s and F-22s

NATO has a flying 6th generation fighter.

NATO has around 2000 F-16s, China has around 450 J-10s, but NATO has around 800 Typhons, Gripens and Rafales.

we are forgeting F-18s and F-15s which are near 1000 aircraft.

China has around 400 Su-27s varianst from cloned J-15s or J-16 to Russian Su-35.


Economically the GDP of USA and NATO have around a trillion dollars military budget, china near 200 billion dollars.


China today only has one ally from Europe, Russia, but if China pisses Russia, the Russians will join NATO to stop China.


The western world is economically one block, London and New York are alligned to Berlin and Paris.

basically Canada, Australia and NATO are a block, but the leading hand is the USA.


China will not surpass nor split the western alliance.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[Kumata]

By PPP, China is already bigger than US, by GDP the latest prediction will be 2028, so 8 yrs to go. Considering China's military expenditures is 1.5% of GDP versus 4.5% of US, I think PLA still have enough excuse to ask money from government.

So you assume that while china will grow, US will sit idle and wait for china to catchup ??

and 6th Gen fighter... LMAO ... first get a proven & working 4.5G fighter in place.. US / Russian platforms are battle tested and proven unlike chinese paper tigers....

 

[rockdog]

I have news for you, China will not rule the world, if you know history, you will know the hegemon never lets and emerging power replace it.


Who are those Hegemons? USA plus France, Germany, England Basicly the European Union in few words NATO.

Now let us say it in aircraft programs

NATO aircraft F-22, F-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen, Rafale, F-15, F-18E, F-16

So China has a few J-20 perhaps 60, the NATO powers have around 700 F-35s and F-22s

NATO has a flying 6th generation fighter.

NATO has around 2000 F-16s, China has around 450 J-10s, but NATO has around 800 Typhons, Gripens and Rafales.

we are forgeting F-18s and F-15s which are near 1000 aircraft.

China has around 400 Su-27s varianst from cloned J-15s or J-16 to Russian Su-35.


Economically the GDP of USA and NATO have around a trillion dollars military budget, china near 200 billion dollars.


China today only has one ally from Europe, Russia, but if China pisses Russia, the Russians will join NATO to stop China.


The western world is economically one block, London and New York are alligned to Berlin and Paris.

basically Canada, Australia and NATO are a block, but the leading hand is the USA.


China will not surpass nor split the western alliance.

It's little off topic, but i didn't say China want rule the world, you as a western just imagined so, it's naturally reflect your POV that western should and must be the dominant position always.

So far China just wants to be an equal player among the top three EU, US, China. The military growth is mostly for maintaining the security of China's eastasia region and its global supply chain. We don't need fight with the whole western world or NATO, just keeping them won't bully China by its military strengh. Under this aim, keeping a 1000 5G fighters and 1000 4G-4.5G fighters in next 10 years will be realistic.

If you check China's defense budget, it's only 1-2% of the whole GDP, it's hard to say China wants to use military power to rule the world. During 2050 China's GDP is something like 130% of USA or EU, the military budget will naturally overtake USA.

The western world is economically one block, London and New York are alligned to Berlin and Paris.

Really? it's not cold war era, we don't have plan to invade EU, if so at least Poland will be happy since it means China is already crashed Russia ^_^.

Please check this news, it's like pre-deal of FTA, just signed:

The Strategic Implications of the China-EU Investment Deal

The Strategic Implications of the China-EU Investment Deal

The EU-China Comprehensive Agreement on Investment is a win for China, and a blow to transatlantic relations.

thediplomat.com

China and EU have more econimic benefits than military standoff which makes no sense, despite USA was not happy about it.

The China-EU Investment Deal Is a Mistake
-https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-30/europe-s-big-investment-deal-with-china-is-a-mistake

 

[rockdog]

So you assume that while china will grow, US will sit idle and wait for china to catchup ??

and 6th Gen fighter... LMAO ... first get a proven & working 4.5G fighter in place.. US / Russian platforms are battle tested and proven unlike chinese paper tigers....

Guess what this image belong to? And how much India invested on it and how many IAF going to buy?

 

[Haldilal]

Guess what this image belong to? And how much India invested on it and how many IAF going to buy?

View attachment 73161

We invested less extremely less and atleast it dont cost a fly away of 700 million RMB like your stealth fighter. Which is costly and also costly to maintain.

 

[Kumata]

Guess what this image belong to? And how much India invested on it and how many IAF going to buy?

View attachment 73161

As always, you Don, t the balls and means to answer a direct question so subverting the topic...

Between just try to test what is there in that picture in real world... U will come back with ass of below baboon..

 

[Knowitall]

I have news for you, China will not rule the world, if you know history, you will know the hegemon never lets and emerging power replace it.


Who are those Hegemons? USA plus France, Germany, England Basicly the European Union in few words NATO.

Now let us say it in aircraft programs

NATO aircraft F-22, F-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen, Rafale, F-15, F-18E, F-16

So China has a few J-20 perhaps 60, the NATO powers have around 700 F-35s and F-22s

NATO has a flying 6th generation fighter.

NATO has around 2000 F-16s, China has around 450 J-10s, but NATO has around 800 Typhons, Gripens and Rafales.

we are forgeting F-18s and F-15s which are near 1000 aircraft.

China has around 400 Su-27s varianst from cloned J-15s or J-16 to Russian Su-35.


Economically the GDP of USA and NATO have around a trillion dollars military budget, china near 200 billion dollars.


China today only has one ally from Europe, Russia, but if China pisses Russia, the Russians will join NATO to stop China.


The western world is economically one block, London and New York are alligned to Berlin and Paris.

basically Canada, Australia and NATO are a block, but the leading hand is the USA.


China will not surpass nor split the western alliance.

Off topic but..

Rule the world lol typical western mindset.

Western block lmao the Asian age is coming the world is done with your shit and will inflict 1000 times the damage you did over the world.

First ask berlin to stop Nord stream and EU investment deal while US continues to collapse.

Your days are numbered.

 

[ARVION MK 1A]

First of all this stealth jet can't go beyond Mach 2. Has the worst Air intake, with complicated by the DSI and has still a weak engine. Has shourdy Maneuverability. Stealth is not everything. The weapons bay is a big off's.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

It's little off topic, but i didn't say China want rule the world, you as a western just imagined so, it's naturally reflect your POV that western should and must be the dominant position always.

So far China just wants to be an equal player among the top three EU, US, China. The military growth is mostly for maintaining the security of China's eastasia region and its global supply chain. We don't need fight with the whole western world or NATO, just keeping them won't bully China by its military strengh. Under this aim, keeping a 1000 5G fighters and 1000 4G-4.5G fighters in next 10 years will be realistic.

If you check China's defense budget, it's only 1-2% of the whole GDP, it's hard to say China wants to use military power to rule the world. During 2050 China's GDP is something like 130% of USA or EU, the military budget will naturally overtake USA.



Really? it's not cold war era, we don't have plan to invade EU, if so at least Poland will be happy since it means China is already crashed Russia ^_^.

Please check this news, it's like pre-deal of FTA, just signed:

The Strategic Implications of the China-EU Investment Deal

The Strategic Implications of the China-EU Investment Deal

The EU-China Comprehensive Agreement on Investment is a win for China, and a blow to transatlantic relations.

thediplomat.com

China and EU have more econimic benefits than military standoff which makes no sense, despite USA was not happy about it.

The China-EU Investment Deal Is a Mistake
-https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-30/europe-s-big-investment-deal-with-china-is-a-mistake

Let me tell you that I have no animosity towards Chinese people, we all are humans and we should honestly consider cooperation rather than conflict.


I will tell you only technical aspects since politics always end up in problems.

J-20 like I said is very expensive and to be honest stealth is more propaganda than real capabilities.


Consider why Russia invest more in Su-35s, Europe did not bother to build a F-22 equivalent and will jump to a 6th generation fighter, and the USA is going to buy F-15s despite F-35 is newer and stealthy?

1000 J-20s is a pipe dream, China will very likely build 200 or 250 in 10-15 years and perhaps later develop a single engine 6th generation fighter or roboplanes like S-70 Okhotnik.

why? J-31 is crap, why? has weak engines and small payload.

J-20 is really underpowered and overhyped.

It is among the 10 best fighters no doubt about it.

I ranked it like this

1. F-22
2. Su-57
3-F-35
4. J-20
5.Su-35
6.Rafale
7. Eurofighter
8.Gripen
9. J-10
10. F-16

J-20 is bellow F-22 because of its engines, same bellow to Su-57
and bellow F-35 due to its lower producibility.

Due to its stealth well is a little beat higher than Su-35 or Rafale, but in aerodynamics both the Su-35 or Rafale probably are ahead of J-20 when lightly armed.


Since J-20 has weak engines is no point to build a single engine 5th generation fighter like F-35 and by 2030, it will be obsolete.

So in my opinion China will build around 1000 J-10s and 250 J-20 by 2030 since it is better to deal with higher numbers.


The americans will build their 6th generation in series by 2026, and Russia will build S-70 Okhotnik as unmanned F-35 equivalent and once the Type 30 engine is available they might develop a manned 6th generation fighter for export purposes.

Europe is not in a hurry since the Eurocanards and F-35s will be able to defend Europe and the 6th generation can be deployed in 2035

About the Future well nobody knows it by rational means, so who will be a super power in2050 is just a prospection not a real fact

 

[johnq]

India’s Rafale fighter jets to be inducted today — Here’s how it stacks up against Chinese J-20 | Business Insider India

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will formally induct the newly acquired Rafale fighter jets today at its Ambala air base.Here’s a comparison between China’s J-20 and India’s Rafale fighter jetsRafale’s engine is better in terms of reliability, longevity and maintainability, according to reports...

www.businessinsider.in

However, Retired Air Marshal R Nambiar, who tested the Rafale fighter jets for India, said, “Rafale is far superior to the J-20, the Chengdu fighter of China. Even though it’s believed to be a 5th generation fighter, it is probably at best a 3.5 generation aircraft. It’s got a third-generation engine as we have in the Sukhoi.”
But the Rafale engine is better in terms of reliability, longevity and maintainability, according to reports.

The J-20's RCS is also too great to avoid detection, and hence has been tracked by the SU-30MKI's radar at long ranges over the Himalayas.

 

[rockdog]

J-20 like I said is very expensive and to be honest stealth is more propaganda than real capabilities.


Consider why Russia invest more in Su-35s, Europe did not bother to build a F-22 equivalent and will jump to a 6th generation fighter, and the USA is going to buy F-15s despite F-35 is newer and stealthy?

1000 J-20s is a pipe dream, China will very likely build 200 or 250 in 10-15 years and perhaps later develop a single engine 6th generation fighter or roboplanes like S-70 Okhotnik.

why? J-31 is crap, why? has weak engines and small payload.

J-20 is really underpowered and overhyped.

It is among the 10 best fighters no doubt about it.

I ranked it like this

1. F-22
2. Su-57
3-F-35
4. J-20
5.Su-35
6.Rafale
7. Eurofighter
8.Gripen
9. J-10
10. F-16

I appreciate your contribution to this thread, and agree most of your POV.

However my edition would be more specific on different roles. Considering PLAAF will mostly fight within China's neibourghing area, J20 would get stronger system support. Recent decades China built its indigenous supportive system like: own Beidou GPS, universal datalink, massive AEW planes, national anti-stealth radar networks, my ranking would be:

1. F-22 (offensive/defensive role)
2. J-20 (defensive role)
3. Su-57 (offensive role)
4. F-35 (offensive role)
5. Su-57 (defensive role)
6. F-35 (defensive role)
7. J-20 (offensive role)

Just imagine J20 come to attack US military base in Japan and fight with F35, i have to say there are very limited chance for J20 to win.

But if F35 come to attack J20 let's say in Shanghai area, the AEW and radars would give enough support to J20. For 5G fighters, you have to put the combat location and supportive system into the considerations. That's quite different than last generation.

I have seem so many articles about pissing contest between J20 vs Su30MKI or Rafale. But i haven't read any valuable analysis about comparisons between two systems in this forum. If you knew Chinese, you would read from Chinese military forum, fans weren't worried about Rafale too much we don't know how much time IAF would spent on integrating them into their system. They already have planes like collecting stamps from a mini UNSC(saddly China is missing). It's must be headache for logistics...

For the updates of WS10, WS15,
[Redacted; Don't link other forums here]

The progress is quite exicting after 15 yrs of R&D, Google translate would helps.