J20 Stealth Fighter

[Haldilal]

Such as.

Search kar re baba.

 

[johnq]

Sukhoi Su-30 MKI v/s. Chengu J-20 :- Breaking Myth of Chinese Supremacy over IAF — Indian Defence News

India and China are the two major military powers in Asia and they have procured and developed some of the best weapons platforms available today for their defence forces. China’s People’s Liberation Army Air...

defenceupdate.in

However, the Indian Air Force topline fighter Sukhoi Su-30 MKI has been able to “see” the Chengdu J-20 flying over Tibet despite the latter using stealth technology.

According to IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa, the Su-30MKI radar detected and tracked the Chengdu J-20 jet while the latter was flying over Tibet.

While the J-20 is currently powered by the Russian AL-31 engines, However J-20 lacks in high powered engine, Radar & Avoinics.But MKI being a 4th gen plane equipped with best systems of Russian, Indian, French & Israeli origins which make it more powerful to any 4th gen plane deployed under PlAAF.
Chinese facing major problems with engine development, they failed to develop an Jet engine.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

China will cease using the Russian engine currently fitted on China’s new generation J-20 stealth fighter jet, replacing it with an upgraded home-grown engine.

A military insider told the South China Morning Post Chinese aircraft engineers found their domestically built WS-10C, the modified version of the WS-10 engine, to be as good as the Russian AL-31F engines.

“It’s impossible for China to rely on the Russian engine, because Russia asked China to purchase more Su-35 fighter jets in exchange for the AL-31F engine deals,” the insider, who requested anonymity, said.

Get the latest insights and analysis from our Global Impact newsletter on the big stories originating in China.

“The key problem is – except for its longer combat range advantage – the radar, navigation system and other electronic components on the Su-35s are inferior to Chinese aircraft like the J-16 strike fighter.”

China’s next-gen J-20 stealth fighter jettisons Russian engine in favour of home-grown technology

China will cease using the Russian engine currently fitted on China’s new generation J-20 stealth fighter jet, replacing it with an upgraded home-grown engine.A military insider told the South China Morning Post Chinese aircraft engineers found their domestically built WS-10C, the modified...

sg.news.yahoo.com

 

[rockdog]

Latest version of J20, new type of engines and wing modifications:

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Latest version of J20, new type of engines and wing modifications:

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it is still underpowered, if the WS-10 is equivalent to Al-31 means it is a 1980s -1990s jet engine.

T-30 is much more powerful, even with thrust vectoring nozzles the Sustained turn rate does not go beyond 10% increase with Thrust vectoring nozzles, so a 21 deg/s STR, will just increase to 23 deg/s.

Post stall will be the true advantage, but Instantaneous turn rate is lift dependant, probably the J-20 should be around 30 deg/s but once its starts turning it will drop, thus it is very unlikely J-20 can be as good as Rafale in turn rates due to lower thrust weight ratio than F-22 or Rafale, but in stealth perhaps surpases the Rafale

 

[rockdog]

it is still underpowered, if the WS-10 is equivalent to Al-31 means it is a 1980s -1990s jet engine.

T-30 is much more powerful, even with thrust vectoring nozzles the Sustained turn rate does not go beyond 10% increase with Thrust vectoring nozzles, so a 21 deg/s STR, will just increase to 23 deg/s.

Post stall will be the true advantage, but Instantaneous turn rate is lift dependant, probably the J-20 should be around 30 deg/s but once its starts turning it will drop, thus it is very unlikely J-20 can be as good as Rafale in turn rates due to lower thrust weight ratio than F-22 or Rafale, but in stealth perhaps surpases the Rafale

The F15 during 1970s was also infamous as bad engine and reliability, but as a heavry platform it's still a killing machines in now days.

J20 as a 5G platform gives at least 10 yrs of LEAD TIME to PLA over other nations except US and Russia.

The specifications of J20 was made around 20 yrs ago, the J20 was designed as deffensive role not the fully attacking role as F22 to F35, so comparing other 3"S" the supersonic cruising is the lowest prioritity.

The J20 is following the same path as J10 and J16, forgien engine > indigenous engine > higher performance engine. I think the coming J20A in 2021 powered by WS10 is enough for defensive purpose and superiority over other 4G fighters.

The WS15 is still on posivitve progress, thanks for enough fund and strong economy. I hope Indian's kaveri is still alive .

 

[MiG-29SMT]

The specifications of J20 was made around 20 yrs ago, the J20 was designed as deffensive role not the fully attacking role as F22 to F35, so comparing other 3"S" the supersonic cruising is the lowest prioritity.

The J20 is following the same path as J10 and J16, forgien engine > indigenous engine > higher performance engine. I think the coming J20A in 2021 powered by WS10 is enough for defensive purpose and superiority over other 4G fighters.

The WS15 is still on posivitve progress, thanks for enough fund and strong economy. I hope Indian's kaveri is still alive .

not getting into politics, just pure technical aspects.

Instantaneous turn rate is lift dependant, so Thrust vectoring does not improve ITR at all.

I think Rafale is around 35-33 deg/s ITR and around 30 Deg/s Sustained turn rate.

Su-27 is around 28deg/s ITR and 23-22deg STR.

Su-30MKI does not get better ITR than Su-27, but it gets a better STR than Su-27 or Su-30.

A delta generates much more drag, so Rafale has less swept wing Angle that Mirage 2000 or Mirage 4000 even it is a Delta.

The design of J-20 is more for lower drag, so relatively generates low drag but is less adapted to generate high lift coefficient like Rafale.

Al-31 are not as good for supercruise.

So J-20 at this moment very likely does not supercruise and if it does can not achive very high speeds due to low thrust and DSI intake limitation.


Rafale might supercruise at much higher speeds than J-20 very likely, so to be honest on a head on encounter the Rafale should not be as bad to deal with a J-20.

It is likely Rafale is not the best counter to J-20 but it should be at least close to give some odds to beat it if right tactics and general radar coverage allows to down it.

J-20 was rushed into production and even with WS-10 can not compete with F-22 or Su-57 with T-30.

Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale still have card over the J-20 and it is supercruise add Rafale has AESA and some limited stealth, i would say J-20 still is not the feared machine it seems to be, easy to beat? no definitively is an advanced aircraft but still is not really a F-22 counter part and the americans already flew a 6th generation fighter

 

[rockdog]

First batch of J20A with WS10b are coming, heard there will be 30-40 J20A produced this year.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

First batch of J20A with WS10b are coming, heard there will be 30-40 J20A produced this year.

View attachment 73047View attachment 73048

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it seems incredible if that is true, however it seems too high, easier aircraft to build like Su-27 or MiG-29 are not produced in such numbers now, speacially as the technology gets more advanced the numbers go down.

In my opinion China will not build more than 10-15 a year, perhaps 20 a year.

To give you an Idea


MiG-21 has built in more than 8000 plus in several decades

the USSR, China, India and Russia have not built more than 1600 Su-27 Flanker and its derivatives.

Less than 1600 MiG-29s have been built and the MiG-29 has been built since 1980.


In fact China has not built more than 500 J-10s that are less advanced than J-20.


China might built 200-250 J-20s in a decade, just consider the USAF built less than 100 F-117, less than 21 B-2s and its F-35 are singled engined.

Single engined are always more produceable, so consider than less the 600 F-14s were built and J-20 is far more advanced than J-20, the americans were building around 24 F-14s a year

 

[MiG-29SMT]

First batch of J20A with WS10b are coming, heard there will be 30-40 J20A produced this year.

View attachment 73047View attachment 73048

View attachment 73049

let me clarify that at low AoA a delta generates more drag so it kills lift, so a less swept wings generate more lift So Rafale has less swept wing angle; at high speeds Deltas reduce drag but still kill lift, thus they need canards, canards generate drag too and kill lift at low AoA, while at high AoA increase lift.

So Rafale is very optimised for turning and very likely will more or less out turn a J-20.

So the J-20 only defence is BVR fights, at close range very likely Su-30MKIs and Rafale can deal with it

 

[rockdog]

let me clarify that at low AoA a delta generates more drag so it kills lift, so a less swept wings generate more lift So Rafale has less swept wing angle; at high speeds Deltas reduce drag but still kill lift, thus they need canards, canards generate drag too and kill lift at low AoA, while at high AoA increase lift.

So Rafale is very optimised for turning and very likely will more or less out turn a J-20.

So the J-20 only defence is BVR fights, at close range very likely Su-30MKIs and Rafale can deal with it

Thanks for your detailed POV on technic, but i m an IT background, not good at what you said. But just one field i'd like to mention, the massive use of new materials and 3D printing were applying on J20， some articles said it cut like 750kgs for new J20A.

令外国同行震惊 中国歼20上的3D打印！

材料作为构成各个部件的基础，自然是“基础中的基础”，在航空航天产业有“一代材料，一代航空”的说法，但是但复合材料和钛合金零件生产却非常麻烦，3D打印技术彻底解决了这一难题。

www.eepw.com.cn

May the lighter weight gives some compensations to "under power" engine. That's why i said J20 is a platform, it gives countless oppotunities for improvement. The Rafale and Su30 is old framework, the forgein companies have no motivation for mass modification if there is easy money to earn.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Thanks for your detailed POV on technic, but i m an IT background, not good at what you said. But just one field i'd like to mention, the massive use of new materials and 3D printing were applying on J20， some articles said it cut like 750kgs for new J20A.

令外国同行震惊 中国歼20上的3D打印！

材料作为构成各个部件的基础，自然是“基础中的基础”，在航空航天产业有“一代材料，一代航空”的说法，但是但复合材料和钛合金零件生产却非常麻烦，3D打印技术彻底解决了这一难题。

www.eepw.com.cn

View attachment 73059

View attachment 73060

May the lighter weight gives some compensations to "under power" engine. That's why i said J20 is a platform, it gives countless oppotunities for improvement. The Rafale and Su30 is old framework, the forgein companies have no motivation for mass modification if there is easy money to earn.

Aircraft are no toys, but an assamble of different parts in fact so many 3D printing can not reduce weight as claimed, it reduces weight true of large parts, but aircraft the European aerospace is not behind at all

BAE Systems and additive manufacturing

Headquartered in London, UK, BAE Systems develops and supports complex surface ships, combat vehicles, and security systems. According to Schofield, the company began researching additive manufacturing technologies over 20 years ago which has lead to the integration of 3D printed components within the Typhoon fighter aircraft. The BAE Systems Tempest aircraft, a next-generation future combat system, was also designed using rapid prototyping.

BAE Systems and Renishaw partner to develop combat aircraft systems using additive manufacturing - 3D Printing Industry

Multinational aerospace company BAE Systems has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with UK-based metal 3D printer manufacturer Renishaw to improve manufacturing processes for combat aircraft systems. With the application of industrial 3D printing, this collaboration aims to improve...

3dprintingindustry.com

Aviation News Rafale takes off from the Charles de Gaulle with a 3D printed part

Rafale takes off from the Charles de Gaulle with a 3D printed part Léo Barnier 11 MAR 2020 | 297 words © Ministère des Armées​ Additive manufacturing continues to make its mark gradually in the operational world. And military MRO isn't being left behind. At the end of February, the Chief of Staff of the French armed forces (EMA) indicated that a Rafale from the French Navy had taken off from the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier with a 3D printed part onboard for the first time. The flight in question took place on 22nd January, during the initial days of the Foch mission (three-month deployment for the carrier group, with participation in the Chammal operation).

you can see, Europe is not behind

 

[Kumata]

Sukhoi Su-30 MKI v/s. Chengu J-20 :- Breaking Myth of Chinese Supremacy over IAF — Indian Defence News

India and China are the two major military powers in Asia and they have procured and developed some of the best weapons platforms available today for their defence forces. China’s People’s Liberation Army Air...

defenceupdate.in

Just to add .. so Su30's combat radius without refuel is equal to J20's combat radius with external fuel tanks. I mean 1200 KM is just within a short radius and before pilot hit the cruise range, he will be looking for a refueller... LOL

J20 -

The jet, developed and manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG), is 20.3-20.5 metres long, has a height of 4.45 metres and its wingspan is 12.88-13.50 metres. The maximum take-off weight is 34,000-37,000 kg. The fighter’s range is about 1,200 kilometres which can be increased up to 2,700 kilometres with external fuel tanks.

Su30MKI -

Powered by two Al-31FP turbojet engines, the Su-30 MKI can reach a maximum speed of 2120 kilometres per hour (Mach 1.9) and climb at a rate of 300 metre per second. The fighter has fly-by-wire flight control system and a range of 3,000 kilometres without refuelling. Its combat range increases to 8,000 kilometres with in-flight refuelling system. The Su-30 MKI has a cruising height of 11 to 13 kilometres and a climb rate of 300 metres per second.

Chinese facing major problems with engine development, they failed to develop an Jet engine. As J-20 is china’s latest weapon, it would never use against india. Maximum technology used in J-20 are stolen from USA through Cyber Crime. So This plane is developed from stolen technologies of F-22 & F-35. So if china uses it’s J-20 against india, then it’s vulnerability will be exposed. IAF is professional in handling Su-30Mki. All the MKI pilots in Indian Air Force are tough & highly experienced pilots compared to any countries in the world..

 

[johnq]

All of the PLAAF uses Russian engines. Chinese WS-10 engines only last 30 hours before needing maintenance, so they are not operational in spite of PLAAF propaganda pictures. All news and images coming from Chinese sources, including about WS-10 and J-20, is CCP/PLA propaganda and psy ops, and not trustworthy. I saw reports like these almost a decade back saying that the J-20 is powered by WS-10, and it all turned out to be lies. The truth all along was that the operational J-20 has been powered by Russian engines. Chinese news sources and photoshopped images of the J-20 are not trustworthy. The only true facts that we know of are that the J-20 has been detected by SU-30MKI radar at long ranges, thus having too great a RCS to avoid detection, and that the J-20 is underpowered due to the use of older generation, less reliable Russian engines.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Thanks for your detailed POV on technic, but i m an IT background, not good at what you said. But just one field i'd like to mention, the massive use of new materials and 3D printing were applying on J20， some articles said it cut like 750kgs for new J20A.

令外国同行震惊 中国歼20上的3D打印！

材料作为构成各个部件的基础，自然是“基础中的基础”，在航空航天产业有“一代材料，一代航空”的说法，但是但复合材料和钛合金零件生产却非常麻烦，3D打印技术彻底解决了这一难题。

www.eepw.com.cn

View attachment 73059

View attachment 73060

May the lighter weight gives some compensations to "under power" engine. That's why i said J20 is a platform, it gives countless oppotunities for improvement. The Rafale and Su30 is old framework, the forgein companies have no motivation for mass modification if there is easy money to earn.

The 35-tonne-thrust (77,160-pound) turbofan stands as a candidate to power the CR929 next-generation widebody jetliner developed by CRAIC, a joint venture between China’s Comac and Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). Although the manufacturer has yet to launch an engine selection process, it has already signaled its intent to invite bids from Rolls-Royce and GE, as well as possibly China’s CJ-2000. Schedules call for the CR929 to enter flight tests in 2025 and revenue service in 2027.

A twin-engine version of the Ilyushin Il-96-400M will become the first application for the PD-35, Inozemtsev confirmed. Under the Kremlin’s orders, UAC will launch production of the four-engine machine seating 380- to 415 passengers with existing PS-90A1 engines, having ditched Aviadvigatel’s proposal to supply the improved PS-90A3M. According to Inozemtsev, the twin-engine derivative will fly in 2025 and acquire certification two years later. Specifications call for the airplane to have a gross weight of 270 tonnes (595,240 pounds) and transport a 41-tonne payload 5,134 nm.


Conceived as an up-scaled PD-14, from which it takes 16 key technologies, the PD-35 would feature fan blades made of composite materials as opposed to the hollow titanium blades on its predecessor. Another “must-have” technology involves the 3D printing of composite parts, using carbon-plastic thread and resin from local suppliers. According to Aviadvigatel, it has already employed 3D printing for engine parts in the nacelle and thrust reverser, for example, using metals produced from additive technologies on the PD-14. When applied to composites, 3D printing will achieve a huge leap forward. The Aviadvigatel and its industrial partners have already manufactured a number of prototypes and are perfecting technology for a production specimen, first for application on the PD-14 by 2022 and then on the PD-35.

Kremlin To Invest $3 Billion in 35-tonne Turbofan for Il-96, CR929 | AIN

The Aviadvigatel PD-35 ranks as the largest turbofan every conceived in Russia.

www.ainonline.com

What I am trying to say while it is a great feat the J-20 uses 3D printed parts, they are not unique Russia already uses them in engines and very likely T-30 uses them.


Rafale in 2020 uses them too and India will recieve Rafales very likely with modern technologies, Rafales for India use new technologies too.

 

[Cruise missile]

The 35-tonne-thrust (77,160-pound) turbofan stands as a candidate to power the CR929 next-generation widebody jetliner developed by CRAIC, a joint venture between China’s Comac and Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). Although the manufacturer has yet to launch an engine selection process, it has already signaled its intent to invite bids from Rolls-Royce and GE, as well as possibly China’s CJ-2000. Schedules call for the CR929 to enter flight tests in 2025 and revenue service in 2027.

A twin-engine version of the Ilyushin Il-96-400M will become the first application for the PD-35, Inozemtsev confirmed. Under the Kremlin’s orders, UAC will launch production of the four-engine machine seating 380- to 415 passengers with existing PS-90A1 engines, having ditched Aviadvigatel’s proposal to supply the improved PS-90A3M. According to Inozemtsev, the twin-engine derivative will fly in 2025 and acquire certification two years later. Specifications call for the airplane to have a gross weight of 270 tonnes (595,240 pounds) and transport a 41-tonne payload 5,134 nm.


Conceived as an up-scaled PD-14, from which it takes 16 key technologies, the PD-35 would feature fan blades made of composite materials as opposed to the hollow titanium blades on its predecessor. Another “must-have” technology involves the 3D printing of composite parts, using carbon-plastic thread and resin from local suppliers. According to Aviadvigatel, it has already employed 3D printing for engine parts in the nacelle and thrust reverser, for example, using metals produced from additive technologies on the PD-14. When applied to composites, 3D printing will achieve a huge leap forward. The Aviadvigatel and its industrial partners have already manufactured a number of prototypes and are perfecting technology for a production specimen, first for application on the PD-14 by 2022 and then on the PD-35.

Kremlin To Invest $3 Billion in 35-tonne Turbofan for Il-96, CR929 | AIN

The Aviadvigatel PD-35 ranks as the largest turbofan every conceived in Russia.

www.ainonline.com

What I am trying to say while it is a great feat the J-20 uses 3D printed parts, they are not unique Russia already uses them in engines and very likely T-30 uses them.


Rafale in 2020 uses them too and India will recieve Rafales very likely with modern technologies, Rafales for India use new technologies too.

LCA already uses 3D printed parts.

 

[rockdog]

it seems incredible if that is true, however it seems too high, easier aircraft to build like Su-27 or MiG-29 are not produced in such numbers now, speacially as the technology gets more advanced the numbers go down.

In my opinion China will not build more than 10-15 a year, perhaps 20 a year.

China faces world's toughest threat of 5G fighter wave, even tougher than Russia. The Japan, S.Korea, US's Pacific part totally would have around 500 F22+F35 in next 10 yrs.

PLAAF has the enough reason to boost production of the only available 5G figther. The lucky thing is from J20A, all the elements and subsystems are indigenous. There are already some news talking about 4 Pulse Production Lines are open for J20, so 30-40 each yr is reasonable.

三条脉动生产线全力运转，歼-20数量已达60架，歼-20B即将问世

三条脉动生产线全力运转，歼-20数量已达60架，歼-20B即将问世

xw.qq.com

百度安全验证

baijiahao.baidu.com

China's manufacture capability/Manufcture GDP is already No.1 in the world and is equal US+German+Japan, i don't quite worrired about the capabilities.

Just take an example, 5 yrs ago if i say Chinese navel's production rate will be 1st even more than US naval, Indian members here would just laugh at me, now nobody doubt China's naval produtivities anymore, since warships are big enough and easy to count.

 

[rockdog]

LCA already uses 3D printed parts.

Aircraft are no toys, but an assamble of different parts in fact so many 3D printing can not reduce weight as claimed, it reduces weight true of large parts, but aircraft the European aerospace is not behind at all
you can see, Europe is not behind

When the engine is not powerful enough, the materially might be solution.

The main frame of J20 is powered by world's larggest titanium alloy 3D print component, and the professor get the national sci award.

例如北京航空航天大学大型金属构件增材制造国家工程实验室在王华明院士团队率领下，经20余年的不懈研究，在国际上率先为我国航空发动机技术赶超发达国家做出新的贡献。自2005 年以来，激光增材制造钛合金飞机机身主承力框、翼身根肋、起落架等大型整体关键承力构件，在国产海空军新一代战斗机，大型运输机、运载火箭等航空航天重大装备研制和生产中获得了广泛应用。最新消息称，已研制成功具有原创核心技术、世界最大的激光增材制造设备（成形能力达7米×4米×3.5米），以及世界最大的16平方米3D打印（某大型轰炸机）某发动机钛合金加强框。2016年1月18日，王华明院士主持的“飞机钛合金大型复杂整体构件激光成形技术”项目获得国家技术发明一等奖。

This image says the component is for improving J15, not as the old production path of F22.

It's said the even a bigger one with 16m2 are on trial for new bomber, we fans are guessing it means the H20 will be released during 2021. This news was reported during 2018.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

China faces world's toughest threat of 5G fighter wave, even tougher than Russia. The Japan, S.Korea, US's Pacific part totally would have around 500 F22+F35 in next 10 yrs.

PLAAF has the enough reason to boost production of the only available 5G figther. The lucky thing is from J20A, all the elements and subsystems are indigenous. There are already some news talking about 4 Pulse Production Lines are open for J20, so 30-40 each yr is reasonable.

三条脉动生产线全力运转，歼-20数量已达60架，歼-20B即将问世

三条脉动生产线全力运转，歼-20数量已达60架，歼-20B即将问世

xw.qq.com

百度安全验证

baijiahao.baidu.com

China's manufacture capability/Manufcture GDP is already No.1 in the world and is equal US+German+Japan, i don't quite worrired about the capabilities.

Just take an example, 5 yrs ago if i say Chinese navel's production rate will be 1st even more than US naval, Indian members here would just laugh at me, now nobody doubt China's naval produtivities anymore, since warships are big enough and easy to count.

View attachment 73078

the USA spends a lot of money in bases around the world and have black programs, China has no chances to beat the USA, the next American administration will focus in more China as a Military threat.

J-20 is a heavy fighter, it is expensive, labour intensive, needs lots of pieces, software.


40 aircraft might be the ideal, but remember Japan nor South Korea have a chance to succeed because aircraft are expensive.

J-20 for example to keep it flying must be in the $20000-30000 dollars per hour.

Tell me how many chinese can eat just with 20 J-20s flying one hour?

Got it?

The Russians are building S-70 Okhotnik as a fighter, it is cheaper to have a 1000 km/hour robot plane with higher G capability no human onboard so 9G is not the limit, plus much more stealthy.


Gripen which is one of the cheapest aircraft flies per around USD $10000 dollars an hour

Okhotnik will be a full-fledged multifunctional [aerial] vehicle with the possibility of using it as a long-range unmanned fighter-interceptor," the source told Sputnik.

Russian 'Okhotnik' Combat Drone to Perform First Weapon Tests Next Year, Source Says

MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russia’s stealth heavy combat drone Okhotnik ("Hunter") will carry out flight tests involving the use of weapons next year, a source in the aircraft industry told Sputnik.

sputniknews.com

let us suppose J-20 cost 70 million dollars a piece, and a flying hour of $18000.

Why do you think most pilots train in simulators?


the reality is J-20 will become to expensive, the Russians know expensive aircraft are difficult too mantain so they are going for a unmanned fighter.

Now think a higher thrust air breathing engine is the best solution for range and payload in fact the best is the use the less fuel and more air so S-70 should be more practical than J-20 or Su-57 and that is the reason it is bigger than american or Chinese UAVs

so 40 might be produced but will not fly as often and remember biggest problem of aircraft once they are operational are obsolete, in 2020 very likely F-22 is obsolete and Russia probably can dody the americans have 6th generation fighters

 

[rockdog]

the USA spends a lot of money in bases around the world and have black programs, China has no chances to beat the USA, the next American administration will focus in more China as a Military threat.

J-20 is a heavy fighter, it is expensive, labour intensive, needs lots of pieces, software.


40 aircraft might be the ideal, but remember Japan nor South Korea have a chance to succeed because aircraft are expensive.

J-20 for example to keep it flying must be in the $20000-30000 dollars per hour.

Tell me how many chinese can eat just with 20 J-20s flying one hour?

Got it?

The Russians are building S-70 Okhotnik as a fighter, it is cheaper to have a 1000 km/hour robot plane with higher G capability no human onboard so 9G is not the limit, plus much more stealthy.


Gripen which is one of the cheapest aircraft flies per around USD $10000 dollars an hour

Okhotnik will be a full-fledged multifunctional [aerial] vehicle with the possibility of using it as a long-range unmanned fighter-interceptor," the source told Sputnik.

Russian 'Okhotnik' Combat Drone to Perform First Weapon Tests Next Year, Source Says

MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russia’s stealth heavy combat drone Okhotnik ("Hunter") will carry out flight tests involving the use of weapons next year, a source in the aircraft industry told Sputnik.

sputniknews.com

let us suppose J-20 cost 70 million dollars a piece, and a flying hour of $18000.

Why do you think most pilots train in simulators?


the reality is J-20 will become to expensive, the Russians know expensive aircraft are difficult too mantain so they are going for a unmanned fighter.

Now think a higher thrust air breathing engine is the best solution for range and payload in fact the best is the use the less fuel and more air so S-70 should be more practical than J-20 or Su-57 and that is the reason it is bigger than american or Chinese UAVs

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so 40 might be produced but will not fly as often and remember biggest problem of aircraft once they are operational are obsolete, in 2020 very likely F-22 is obsolete and Russia probably can dody the americans have 6th generation fighters

By PPP, China is already bigger than US, by GDP the latest prediction will be 2028, so 8 yrs to go. Considering China's military expenditures is 1.5% of GDP versus 4.5% of US, I think PLA still have enough excuse to ask money from government.

I don't quite worry about the money for operatons, China's manufacture strengh would cut the cost dramatically, just like USA made Segway was never below the $USD5000, but Xiaomi made it only for $USD150; even our farmers are using it for daily working ^_^:

Plus what you have seen now are all based on projects with 10-20 yrs of lead time. The R&D system even had enough money to make two pararall projects just for comparision, one is for EMALS one is for Steam catapult.

Those two systems were discussed in our military forums for 10 yrs and just released recently, during that time China's GDP is only 20% of US and 3 times of India; I remebered some Chinese members mentioned these projects here in DFI, everyone laughed about it, god knows how many hidden projects are running.

Anyway, strong manufcture base + enough fund + new tech applications would make the J20's product/operation cost acts as similiar curve as F35.

For 6G fighter, there are many news mentioned the development already began:

管中窥豹，从中国最先进的新型风洞看国产第六代战斗机长啥样？

管中窥豹，从中国最先进的新型风洞看国产第六代战斗机长啥样？

ishare.ifeng.com

Same as our catapult projects for carrier, The Institution 611, Institution 601 are already making competition now.