J-21/J-31 Chinese 5th Generation Stealth Fighter

[THESIS THORON]

Is it about China Buying SU-35 when China has 5th generation J-20? That logic is so flawed. If we go by this logic than we can also say that the F-35 is is not so Advanced and Hence US Airforce is buying more F-15EX.

You see mate, you can't always Operate 5th Generation Aircrafts in large numbers because it's very expensive in doing so and hence you also need 4th Generation Aircrafts to supplement and build up a bulk of your fleet using them. Also there were several other reasons for China buying these SU-35 Flankers from Russia.

but, amreeki buying f15ex instead of f35 is purely due to cost. us is a democracy, they need to give ans to the public and their representatives on the spending.

china is not a democracy, they dont need to ans the questions of people, and the chinks j20 project must be cheaper than us f35 as they have not done fuckup of packing 3 fighters in one.

 

[Super Flanker]

but, amreeki buying f15ex instead of f35 is purely due to cost. us is a democracy, they need to give ans to the public and their representatives on the spending.

china is not a democracy, they dont need to ans the questions of people, and the chinks j20 project must be cheaper than us f35 as they have not done fuckup of packing 3 fighters in one.

See dude, you should not underestimate these Chinese Aircrafts like J-31/J-35/J-20 etc

With regards to program cost, There are estimates that China invested more than 30 billion yuan(4.4 billion dollars) in the J-20 programme and on the Other hand F-35 program is said to cost more Than 1 trillion dollars!

 

[no smoking]

but, amreeki buying f15ex instead of f35 is purely due to cost.

Remember, Chinese are still buying 100s J-10c, J-15/16 each year. Do you think their J-20 is worse than J-10c and J-16?

The reasons:
1. Cost: no matter how cheap the J-20 maybe, it is still more expensive than J-10c and J-16. If the world no.1 military budget suffered from cost issue, how can the No.2 budget escape that?
2. Not enough production capacity of J-20. These equipment on board represent the highest tech level of China. Certainly, they need time to expand their production line.
3. The target engine WS-15 is still in the development, they won't massive produce J-20 before the engine is ready.

us is a democracy, china is not a democracy, they dont need to ans the questions of people,

But they need to answer their boss. Their boss doesn't have an unlimited pocket and he swear to bring every Chinese out of poverty. Xi's common prosperity is far expensive than J-20.

And it is lot easier to fool public by blaming foreign suppliers, corruption, etc, but lot harder to hide from your boss because he doesn't accept cheap excuses.

By the way, the worst consequence of cheating public in democracy is losing your job. But in China, for politicians and general, that is the best you can get.

and the chinks j20 project must be cheaper than us f35 as they have not done fuckup of packing 3 fighters in one.

But Chinese doesn't have any other country to share R&D cost.
And they have to produce almost everything, even a screw, by themselves.

 

[rockdog]

Is it about China Buying SU-35 when China has 5th generation J-20? That logic is so flawed. If we go by this logic than we can also say that the F-35 is is not so Advanced and Hence US Airforce is buying more F-15EX.

The logic is simple. China order the 24 Su35 at 2015, and it's ready to fly fighter. At that time, J20 was not mature since its first flight was on 2011.11.11.The oficial IOC of J20 happened in 2018, there was no more news about next batch of Su35.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The logic is simple. China order the 24 Su35 at 2015, and it's ready to fly fighter. At that time, J20 was not mature since its first flight was on 2011.11.11.The oficial IOC of J20 happened in 2018, there was no more news about next batch of Su35.

If the US could buy 24 SU-35s, they would do it in a heartbeat.

What air force in the world would kill for a chance to practice against dissimilar aircraft? (The SU-35 lost to J-16 and J-10C in Golden Helmet competition.)

I've yet to see SU-35s photographed or reported by Japan and Taiwan during intercepts. Those are mainly J-16s and J-11Bs.

SU-35s in the PLAAF probably primarily operate as aggressor aircraft with secondary frontline mission (I read mainly in Southeast region, yet don't see them
reported by the RoC or Japan.)

The PLAAF would buy a squadron of SU-57 too if given the chance -- to against test the J-20 and J-35!

 

[MiG-29SMT]

If the US could buy 24 SU-35s, they would do it in a heartbeat.

What air force in the world would kill for a chance to practice against dissimilar aircraft? (The SU-35 lost to J-16 and J-10C in Golden Helmet competition.)

I've yet to see SU-35s photographed or reported by Japan and Taiwan during intercepts. Those are mainly J-16s and J-11Bs.

View attachment 137766

SU-35s in the PLAAF probably primarily operate as aggressor aircraft with secondary frontline mission (I read mainly in Southeast region, yet don't see them
reported by the RoC or Japan.)

The PLAAF would buy a squadron of SU-57 too if given the chance -- to against test the J-20 and J-35!

Chinese propaganda

J-16 beaten by J-10C

Believable?

External weapons stores, canards and conventional fuselage on J-10 not really stealthy.

J-16 larger AESA and same engines if we believe Chinese propaganda

Who will believe J-10 can beat a larger aircraft with a larger AESA and same weapons?

Answer Chinese propagandists

 

[J20!]

View attachment 137875

Chinese propaganda

J-16 beaten by J-10C

Believable?

View attachment 137876

External weapons stores, canards and conventional fuselage on J-10 not really stealthy.

J-16 larger AESA and same engines if we believe Chinese propaganda

Who will believe J-10 can beat a larger aircraft with a larger AESA and same weapons?

Answer Chinese propagandists

It is widely reported and accepted (Pentagon reporting since 2017 included) that both the J10C and J16 have incorporated AESA radars into their avionics and sensor suites.

It was clearly demonstrated that smaller fighters with better sensor suites won out VS larger twin engine air superiority fighters with old gen radars during the Thai Airforce Grippen C VS PLAAF J11A match up.

SU 35 has an older gen PESA VS the J1Cs AESA. Su35s RCSs is orders of magnitude larger than the MUCH smaller J10C.

They may be relatively similar in RCS values at combat load but J16 has newer gen radar antennae and processing units VS the SU35, ergo it'd be believable that the J16 would be better at BVR.

The SU 35s radar though powerful, needs to be actively broadcasting to reach its max detection range. A J16 or J10C on LPI mode or even active might have better detection and track ranges at BVR

 

[MiG-29SMT]

It is widely reported and accepted (Pentagon reporting since 2017 included) that both the J10C and J16 have incorporated AESA radars into their avionics and sensor suites.

It was clearly demonstrated that smaller fighters with better sensor suites won out VS larger twin engine air superiority fighters with old gen radars during the Thai Airforce Grippen C VS PLAAF J11A match up.

SU 35 has an older gen PESA VS the J1Cs AESA. Su35s RCSs is orders of magnitude larger than the MUCH smaller J10C.

They may be relatively similar in RCS values at combat load but J16 has newer gen radar antennae and processing units VS the SU35, ergo it'd be believable that the J16 would be better at BVR.

The SU 35s radar though powerful, needs to be actively broadcasting to reach its max detection range. A J16 or J10C on LPI mode or even active might have better detection and track ranges at BVR

what can you expect of Chinese propaganda.

picture frontal J-10C weapons are external, round cross section means creeping wave returns

vertical stabilizer has 90 degree alignment with wing perfect corner reflector.

Moving canards perfect radar reflector
Boxy intake perfect corner reflector

conclusion not believable, J-10 like F-16 has tip diffraction, gap seam discontinuity and return from engine cavity too

If J-16 has a bigger AESA J-10 can not compete with J-16

AESA and PESA work virtually the same

the antenna gain is used in both types of radar, the advantage of AESA is due to electronics, not due to emitting power.

Su-35 only is limited for avionics processing power not by emitting power density

AESA and PESA are both Phased arrays

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

on the Other hand F-35 program is said to cost more Than 1 trillion dollars!

Dude atleast check the figures you are quoting.

That 1.3-1.7 trillion figure is for lifetime maintenance, cost of over 2000 airplanes etc.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

It is widely reported and accepted (Pentagon reporting since 2017 included) that both the J10C and J16 have incorporated AESA radars into their avionics and sensor suites.

It was clearly demonstrated that smaller fighters with better sensor suites won out VS larger twin engine air superiority fighters with old gen radars during the Thai Airforce Grippen C VS PLAAF J11A match up.

SU 35 has an older gen PESA VS the J1Cs AESA. Su35s RCSs is orders of magnitude larger than the MUCH smaller J10C.

They may be relatively similar in RCS values at combat load but J16 has newer gen radar antennae and processing units VS the SU35, ergo it'd be believable that the J16 would be better at BVR.

The SU 35s radar though powerful, needs to be actively broadcasting to reach its max detection range. A J16 or J10C on LPI mode or even active might have better detection and track ranges at BVR

these videos will help you to understand why Su-35 has PESA

 

[J20!]

what can you expect of Chinese propaganda.

View attachment 137978

picture frontal J-10C weapons are external, round cross section means creeping wave returns
View attachment 137980
vertical stabilizer has 90 degree alignment with wing perfect corner reflector.

Moving canards perfect radar reflector
Boxy intake perfect corner reflector
View attachment 137979
conclusion not believable, J-10 like F-16 has tip diffraction, gap seam discontinuity and return from engine cavity too
View attachment 137981

If J-16 has a bigger AESA J-10 can not compete with J-16

AESA and PESA work virtually the same
View attachment 137982

the antenna gain is used in both types of radar, the advantage of AESA is due to electronics, not due to emitting power.
View attachment 137983
View attachment 137984
Su-35 only is limited for avionics processing power not by emitting power density

View attachment 137985

AESA and PESA are both Phased arrays

Why are you camparing a J10C to An F35? The comparison was J10C V Su35 and J16 VS SU 35.

Sure, PESA and AESA are both phased arrays. China has used several naval and airborne PESAs before moving on to AESAs for Frontline ships and aircraft.

AESAs are more capable. We both know that, so please don't argue for arguments sake.

AESAs also facilitate expanded LPI modes which enable host aircraft with extended low emission detection and tracking capability.

Emitting aircraft Ala SU 35 have to blast radio emissions into the theater to secure track and firing solutions on smaller rcs aircraft at extended ranges.

Smaller AESA equipped aircraft with more modern processing equipment can collect and fix firing solutions either on passive or active modes. Either of which shouldnt be a problem considering SU35s 5m+ rcs figure.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Why are you camparing a J10C to An F35? The comparison was J10C V Su35 and J16 VS SU 35.

Sure, PESA and AESA are both phased arrays. China has used several naval and airborne PESAs before moving on to AESAs for Frontline ships and aircraft.

AESAs are more capable. We both know that, so please don't argue for arguments sake.

AESAs also facilitate expanded LPI modes which enable host aircraft with extended low emission detection and tracking capability.

Emitting aircraft Ala SU 35 have to blast radio emissions into the theater to secure track and firing solutions on smaller rcs aircraft at extended ranges.

Smaller AESA equipped aircraft with more modern processing equipment can collect and fix firing solutions either on passive or active modes. Either of which shouldnt be a problem considering SU35s 5m+ rcs figure.

too much blah blah because you do not even understand how radars do work

This equation tell you what is AESA and PESA if you care to understand it

The range of any radar is frequency dependant or transmit wavelength λ , it is also dependant upon transmitting power or Pt.

What is a PESA radar? it is a single transmitting unit thus its range is long by it self, add radar gain you increase a lot of power.

What is an AESA? they are many TR modules, in few words, many mini radars transmitting at much lower transmit power, add different frequency and you reduce the single module of each AESA T/R power.

I will care to explain, imaging an aircraft has two MiG-21 radars instead of a Single Su-35 radar; each MiG-21 transmits at 1/2 of transmit power, thus range is reduced, now add different frequency, range is reduced on one MiG-21 radar.

So the best range for an AESA is use the same frequency, and use the array to achieve radar gain as a PESA.

The only true advantage of AESA is reliability, since a single module of T/R type if it fails will not affect the radar in a big manner, contrary to a PESA that if the single transmitter fails the radar stops.

Su-35 has a lot of power, depending upon avionics, Su-35 has an old radar, it is possible it might work not so well add they probably sold a monkey version to China, yes it is possible it might not work as a much modern AESA.

However J-10 is not stealth, it has creeping waves issue, corner reflectors. seams that increase radar reflectivity,J-10 has tip diffraction, gap seam discontinuity and return from engine cavity too, add it has lower range, for the same amount of weapons, so J-16 will beat the J-10 at long range and even Su-35.

At WVR Su-35 will also beat it.

Su-35 also has better engines, since 117s are pretty reliable and Su-35 will not be bought if it has inferior engines to J-16.

So that is propaganda clearly for internal consumption and for India since India has rafale

 

[Super Flanker]

Dude atleast check the figures you are quoting.

That 1.3-1.7 trillion figure is for lifetime maintenance, cost of over 2000 airplanes etc.

Oh thanks for Correcting me. But than what is cost Comparison between J-20 and F-35 Program?

I think so the entire F-35 Program has a Far more higher Cost Associated to it as compared to J-20 program.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Wow!

1/72 scale model of the J-35 based on the original FC-31V1 kit from Trumpeter and modified with scratched and 3D printed parts

 

[SexyChineseLady]

This is the original FC-31 kit from Trumpeter (a very good Chinese modeling brand!):

 

[ym888]

This is the original FC-31 kit from Trumpeter (a very good Chinese modeling brand!):

View attachment 143774

View attachment 143775

View attachment 143776

Here's an interesting question


Do WE need to pay copyright fee to Shenyang Aircraft Factory?

 

[johnj]

Dude atleast check the figures you are quoting.

That 1.3-1.7 trillion figure is for lifetime maintenance, cost of over 2000 airplanes etc.

and new modifications, upgrade also.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

So are porks going to buy this under Porject azm and paint it green?

 

[Super Flanker]

So are porks going to buy this under Porject azm and paint it green?

No. As far as I am concerned, I don't think so. The day that Pakistan joined Turkish TAI-FX program, the Requirement for another stand-alone 5th generation fighter aircraft program pretty much ended. TAI-FX is how PAF will get a 5th generation fighter.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Ever since Turkey asked Pakistan to join TFX there had been a lot of rumors from Middle East involving China in relations to Pakistan

According to ME rumors, engines, J-35 and even J-20 (not very believable) are in play.