ISRO General News and Updates

[Jameson Emoni]

...Now, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has planned its solar mission, Aditya – L1, to be launched by the end of 2020. Looking at the scientific focus on the Sun across the globe, one may wonder why it is important to study this yellow dwarf star.

To answer this and understand more about ISRO's solar mission, we spoke to Dr. Abhay Deshpande, a Senior Scientist (Physicist) working for the Government of India as well as the Honorary Secretary of Khagol Mandal, a non-profit collective of astronomy enthusiasts who organise various sky observation programmes, lectures and study tours...

https://weather.com/en-IN/india/sci...isros-aditya-l1-mission-explore-sun-mysteries

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Decentralise Isro powers, set up space regulator & tribunal, says New Space Policy by think tank

NEW DELHI: A new Space Policy 2020 drafted by Takshashila Institution, a think tank and public policy school, proposed decoupling the regulatory and service delivery roles of Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) to create a level-playing field for new entrants.

The policy said the present space ecosystem is centralised around Isro, which is a research organisation, service delivery establishment, regulatory, licensing and compliance agency as well as a disputes settlement body. Therefore, it proposed establishment of an independent Space Regulatory of India (SRAI), which will be responsible for setting standards, licensing space activities and compliance of these activities, and Space Disputes Settlement Appellate Tribunal to adjudicate disputes and settle appeals to protect the interest of service providers.

It also mulled setting up of space PSU Bharat Space Corporation (BSC), which will provide a whole range of space services, directly or through subsidiaries and will be under the ambit of SRAI.

In an interview to TOI, Nitin Pai, co-founder and director of Takshashila, said, “The recommendations were drafted by a task force consisting of myself & Utkarsh Narain from Takshashila, and Siddhey Shinde (Astrome, space technology co) and Yashas Karanam (Bellatrix, space company). They are derived from the outcome of Takshashila’s space policy conclave where a number of experts from the government and private sector came together to discuss the future of the space industry.”

On proposing a regulator and a tribunal, Nitin Pai said, “One of the most basic principles of governance and fair play is that the same entity (Isro) cannot be the player, umpire and rule-maker. So the first step in the opening of any industry sector is the structural separation of these roles: in telecom, we used to have telecom department in the 1980s providing the service, regulating the industry as well as making policy. Today those functions are split between BSNL, TRAI, TDSAT and DoT. The space regulatory authority and dispute settlements tribunals can create a level-playing field for private industry to operate in the space sector. They will be neutral umpires.”

On the fate of Isro’s existing commercial arms Antrix Corporation and NewSpace India Ltd, the Takashashila founder told TOI, “Policy proposed that existing arms will become subsidiaries of the space PSU.” BSC shall explore public-private partnership (PPP) models for building satellites and launch vehicles, etc. This will help drive private capital and solving some capacity constraints, the policy said.

Nitin Pai said, “Even after liberalisation, Isro will have an important role to play. As the national space agency, it will conduct missions like Chandrayaan, Mangalyaan etc that push the frontiers of science, and drive national space exploration. It will also engage in the development of strategic technologies.”

The policy proposed that SRAI, in consultation with the Space Commission, shall come up with a comprehensive framework for licensing and regulation of private human space flights in a year.

The regulations shall delineate safety and technical requirements of the space vehicle, liability and insurance requirements for the company as well as participants.

 

[Chinmoy]

Decentralise Isro powers, set up space regulator & tribunal, says New Space Policy by think tank

Hmmmm............ Think Tanks are promoting the idea of turning ISRO into NASA.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Hmmmm............ Think Tanks are promoting the idea of turning ISRO into NASA.

Implementation of policy to make space industry an integral part of Indian economy rather than ISRO keeping monopoly on it.

ISRO is a space "research" organisation and should only spend it's time and resources on research only. Other agencies can utilize technologies developed by ISRO for applications.

 

[Chinmoy]

Implementation of policy to make space industry an integral part of Indian economy rather than ISRO keeping monopoly on it.

ISRO is a space "research" organisation and should only spend it's time and resources on research only. Other agencies can utilize technologies developed by ISRO for applications.

I got it, but it has its Pros and Cons in our context. On one hand, it would it would open up the space industry of the country which in itself would be a great step technically and on HR front.
But it would also mean that we would be facing heavy competition on the launch market which as of now is a major source of income for ISRO as well as GOI. Now that is one serious matter of concern IMO.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

major source of income for ISRO as well as GOI

Let me tell you a secret.
IT ISN'T.

Insignificant for ISRO and DOS itself. Leave alone GOI.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

G Narayanan to guide ISRO's commercial path

 

[Chinmoy]

Let me tell you a secret.
IT ISN'T.

Insignificant for ISRO and DOS itself. Leave alone GOI.

Its not about being significant or insignificant. Its about revenue earn. USD 100 million per year on average is not an insignificant amount I think.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

USD 100 million per year on average

It's actually insignificant as GOI allocates sufficient budget to agency whenever have to execute something.

Expansion into industry will bring billions instead of millions. And who told you government is going to discontinue launches? Only ISRO is going to.

 

[Chinmoy]

It's actually insignificant as GOI allocates sufficient budget to agency whenever have to execute something.

Expansion into industry will bring billions instead of millions. And who told you government is going to discontinue launches? Only ISRO is going to.

Yes it does. But when we talk of funding, we are talking of annual budget funding basically. Other funding include the project costs which are allocated by GoI. But half of expenditure of ISRO is earned from satellite launch market. Now the moment that part gets separated from ISRO, they would have to look out for other source. Where is that source?

 

[chewi]

Hello, is there any news about Gisat-1 launch date?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

But half of expenditure of ISRO is earned from satellite launch market.

You seriously believe what files anywhere in juveniles news market.

ISRO's foreign launch revenue on usual remains $10-20 million dollars and crosses a few hundred millions on some lucky years. It never could achieve even 10% of agency's single year budget ($1.5 billion previous year) even at its best performance. (And not accounting "profit" that will be even lower). Neither India is major space launcher yet. It's revenue isn't even a fraction of US, Russia, China & EU and just trying to become one.

It's government that has been boosting ISRO's budget. Double in 2020 from that in 2014, 30% increase was this year alone.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Hello, is there any news about Gisat-1 launch date?

Was supposed to be this week. No news or NOTAM till now.

 

[Chinmoy]

You seriously believe what files anywhere in juveniles news market.

ISRO's foreign launch revenue on usual remains $10-20 million dollars and crosses a few hundred millions on some lucky years. It never could achieve even 10% of agency's single year budget ($1.5 billion previous year) even at its best performance. (And not accounting "profit" that will be even lower). Neither India is major space launcher yet. It's revenue isn't even a fraction of US, Russia, China & EU and just trying to become one.

It's government that has been boosting ISRO's budget. Double in 2020 from that in 2014, 30% increase was this year alone.

As I already mentioned in my first post, in our case it has its own pros & cons. You just supported the same in your last line.

Now even if we take the revenue collection from satellite launch to be 10%, by outsourcing the same ISRO would get a deduction of 10% from its budget. Means they would have to recover it from somewhere. Increasing funding to ISRO also takes into account the 10% revenue into account.
Now after that has been cut, would government subsidize it? Right now government has increased the budget since it is the single space entity. Would they be doing the same if it gets decentralized?
What would be its impact then?

 

[ezsasa]

As I already mentioned in my first post, in our case it has its own pros & cons. You just supported the same in your last line.

Now even if we take the revenue collection from satellite launch to be 10%, by outsourcing the same ISRO would get a deduction of 10% from its budget. Means they would have to recover it from somewhere. Increasing funding to ISRO also takes into account the 10% revenue into account.
Now after that has been cut, would government subsidize it? Right now government has increased the budget since it is the single space entity. Would they be doing the same if it gets decentralized?
What would be its impact then?

NASA annual statement might throw some light to your queries.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/afr19_508_1.pdf

Their annual revenues are hardly 10% of their budget.

ISRO too is not expected to be self sufficient in fiscal terms.

But yes, your question remains valid for now.

I would have hoped that ISRO earns revenues from their spin off technologies like Li-ion battery tech which they gave away for free. But we all know it would not happen.

 

[Chinmoy]

NASA annual statement might throw some light to your queries.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/afr19_508_1.pdf

Their annual revenues are hardly 10% of their budget.

ISRO too is not expected to be self sufficient in fiscal terms.

But yes, your question remains valid for now.

I would have hoped that ISRO earns revenues from their spin off technologies like Li-ion battery tech which they gave away for free. But we all know it would not happen.

On top of that what would be share of ISRO on private launch market?

ISRO did gave away Lithium ion tech to industries, but none has came out on manufacturing front. Our private industries are not capable enough to absorb tech as of now.

So we do need a clear cut terms and goal in front of us. We would have to make our pvt companies able enough to absorb home grown tech and implement it first. Otherwise they would be much more happy in foreign collaboration to make it economically viable for them.

 

[ezsasa]

On top of that what would be share of ISRO on private launch market?

ISRO did gave away Lithium ion tech to industries, but none has came out on manufacturing front. Our private industries are not capable enough to absorb tech as of now.

So we do need a clear cut terms and goal in front of us. We would have to make our pvt companies able enough to absorb home grown tech and implement it first. Otherwise they would be much more happy in foreign collaboration to make it economically viable for them.

Tata did absorb ISRO’s Li-ion tech. They came out with a product called Ziptron for their EV portfolio.

https://www.indiatimes.com/auto/cur...sfer-will-help-ev-growth-in-india-365686.html

 

[Indx TechStyle]

As I already mentioned in my first post, in our case it has its own pros & cons.

I said we got nothing to lose. We are not a major launch service provider, we are just one of few existing ones.

ISRO is a research agency unnecessarily burdened to even administer national space economy. It will be doing wonders with $5 billions budget (equal to ESA and Roscosmos) purely for research and no task assigned to build national infrastructure and give launch slots (adds up as years of time span in a decade) to facilitate commercial launches from other countries.

Even this year, just to launch Brazilian Amazonia-1, we shifted our launch windows for it postponing our own mission to 2021.

 

[Chinmoy]

I said we got nothing to lose. We are not a major launch service provider, we are just one of few existing ones.

ISRO is a research agency unnecessarily burdened to even administer national space economy. It will be doing wonders with $5 billions budget (equal to ESA and Roscosmos) purely for research and no task assigned to build national infrastructure and give launch slots (adds up as years of time span in a decade) to facilitate commercial launches from other countries.

Even this year, just to launch Brazilian Amazonia-1, we shifted our launch windows for it postponing our own mission to 2021.

First thing first........... You don't wait in the market to be the leading launch service provider, you work to be the leading launch service provider and as of now, ISRO with its low cost launching is just doing that.

Second..................... Its nice that there should be an open launch market and ISRO should rather focus on core technology research and development. But for that you need to have a viable market to take up the challenge. As of now we don't have that. So rather then talking of decentralizing ISRO, we should talk about launch work share division.

Else we would have the same scenario in space science which we have in MIC as of now. DRDO as of own is doing a great job, but we don't have industry to pick those research up and industrialize it. Unless we have a robust private infrastructure to take up the launch challenge, all we have in future would be JV sort of things. In that case, our launch solution would not be economical enough in market and we would loose whatever foothold we have today. The private entities on top of that would try to make it up with increasing the cost of indigenous launch and we could only imagine what would happen then.


So instead of talking about decentralizing ISRO, we should talk about launch share distribution as of now. Let companies like Godrej, which is a major vendor of ISRO, invest in developing launch platform of own with consultation and ToT from ISRO. After they reach a stage of maturity, let us then decentralize ISRO.
One more thing, don't even think that the budget allocation to ISRO would remain same if it gets decentralize now. We would see immediate cut in that as compared to now.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

You don't wait in the market to be the leading launch service provider

That's why this step.

you work to be the leading launch service provider and as of now, ISRO with its low cost launching is just doing that.

ISRO isn't doing it very happily actually.

With just an ability to launch 5-7 MLLVs/year which would comprise both your own missions as well as commercial launches, it's an unnecessary overload.

But for that you need to have a viable market to take up the challenge. As of now we don't have that.

Market is lying there around world. Our problem is lack of production lines and hereby low launch frequency.

Unless we have a robust private infrastructure to take up the launch challenge, all we have in future would be JV sort of things. In that case, our launch solution would not be economical enough in market and we would loose whatever foothold we have today.

I neither see our infrastructure too weak nor I see you having even a little clue on what exactly is happening.

Moreover, in anyway, it doesn't affect our cost competitiveness. Not doing it will increase costs for sure.

It's only competition and privatization which reduces launch costs while making profits as well. ISRO DOESN'T TRY TO KEEP COSTS LOW AND KILL ITS PROFITS.
Nor anyone in world is reserved to launch from India. Cost will increase with global inflation. ISRO being alone Indian administration isn't going to be able to take care of any cost reduction projects.

Second..................... Its nice that there should be an open launch market and ISRO should rather focus on core technology research and development. But for that you need to have a viable market to take up the challenge. As of now we don't have that. So rather then talking of decentralizing ISRO, we should talk about launch work share division.

Else we would have the same scenario in space science which we have in MIC as of now. DRDO as of own is doing a great job, but we don't have industry to pick those research up and industrialize it. Unless we have a robust private infrastructure to take up the launch challenge, all we have in future would be JV sort of things. In that case, our launch solution would not be economical enough in market and we would loose whatever foothold we have today. The private entities on top of that would try to make it up with increasing the cost of indigenous launch and we could only imagine what would happen then.


So instead of talking about decentralizing ISRO, we should talk about launch share distribution as of now. Let companies like Godrej, which is a major vendor of ISRO, invest in developing launch platform of own with consultation and ToT from ISRO. After they reach a stage of maturity, let us then decentralize ISRO.
One more thing, don't even think that the budget allocation to ISRO would remain same if it gets decentralize now. We would see immediate cut in that as compared to now.

You aren't able to get it at all.

1. DoS will become the sole space administration of the nation while ISRO chairman may not be the executive of department anymore. This administration and not ISRO itself have to issue licenses, distribute transponders and bandwidths which at first place is not supposed be to be done a research agency.
2. More launch pads will be set up across coasts and islands. Private companies will be emerging later. A launch administration will still be arriving earlier (similar to ULA. We already subcontract our launch systems to private vendors.

Expansion of SAC should take place to produce both research spacecrafts well as communication satellites in assembly lines. Communication SATs to be taken care of by other allied agencies and research probes by ISRO. Much like cold war era US & USSR.


India needs at least 100 geocentric satellites and at the same time needs to export. Mass production of satellites and launch systems is only key for it.

By "decentralization", we aren't suppressing ISRO itself. ISRO is a part of government of India just like any other agency. More offices will be built to divide work.

The REVENUE about which you are so concerned is being earned for India. For government of India. ISRO isn't supposed to be a competing agency against other government agencies for "revenue". It was never supposed to be a self funding or revenue earning agency. Government gives it money. How do I shove this up in your mind?

As long as government earns, it's same thing. (Decentralization) And if it gets liberalized (privatization), private players will multiply industry and even more money will come in form of tax.

One more thing, don't even think that the budget allocation to ISRO would remain same if it gets decentralize now. We would see immediate cut in that as compared to now.

Then, you must be aware that ISRO will still have more research budget and stupid arbitration, public wealfare and other expenditures won't be there for it.

So instead of talking about decentralizing ISRO, we should talk about launch share distribution as of now. Let companies like Godrej, which is a major vendor of ISRO, invest in developing launch platform of own with consultation and ToT from ISRO. After they reach a stage of maturity, let us then decentralize ISRO.

They have built SSLV and about to sell licenses to completely produce and launch PSLV and SSLV to private vendors.

Government has been training them for years.
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indias-emerging-private-space-sector.81636/

"Build private sector first before decentralization". Private sectors emerge only post decentralization.
You aren't relating things at the moment. Are you drunk bro?