Is the US really secular?

[amoy]

The motto "In God We Trust" appears on US coins and paper currencies. Does that tell anything?

 

[asianobserve]

Forget the majority religion of Americans or their religious sensitivities (that often affect how they vote), what counts is that the state does not officially spouse a particular religion. And forget the reference to "God' in the American Constitution. It has no legal consequence.

 

[Das ka das]

Forget the majority religion of Americans or their religious sensitivities (that often affect how they vote), what counts is that the state does not officially spouse a particular religion. And forget the reference to "God' in the American Constitution. It has no legal consequence.

Are you blind?!? Please read the post by LurkerBaba and then read Rajiv Malhotra's book. Also in one of Malhotra's talks he referred to this book:

The Armies of God: A Study in Militant Christianity: Iain Buchanan: 9789833046096: Amazon.com: Books

Christianity is US's way of exerting global control just like Islam is to the Arabs. The Americans just hide it better under the veil of "human rights" or "universal value".

 

[Known_Unknown]

If a government is non-secular, must the the people not practice religion? I repeat, what the words "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." mean is "People can practice their religion in the United States!"

Does the US definition of "secularism" also mean no discrimination between people of different religions based on their religion alone? Because this is the definition of secularism most commonly used, including in India. If only the government is secular, but the vast sections of society are not, it means that in their day to day dealings, Americans will discriminate against their fellow peers just because they don't belong to their religion.

This is the point that the original poster was trying to shine light on. If a candidate who stands for election feels compelled to change his/her religion (a la Bobby Jindal or Nikki Haley) because it puts him at a disadvantage against his/her opponents who share the majority religion, then this non-secular nature of society presents a real problem for religious minorities. They are either forced to shed their religious identity, or forgo their calling.

This may be the reason why the US has few people of Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh heritage in top positions of power and authority. This is also the difference between India and the US-India has already had Muslim Presidents, a Sikh Prime Minister and now an Italian Catholic head of the ruling party in a society that is 80% Hindu. This is unimaginable in the US-because most Americans are non-secular (code word for intolerant of other religions).

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

U.S. is a capitalist state and religion is of no importance. Money is everything.................

 

[Das ka das]

U.S. is a capitalist state and religion is of no importance. Money is everything.................

US is VERY religious my friend hell you can't go three blocks in my area without stumbling upon a church.

 

[parijataka]

US is VERY religious my friend hell you can't go three blocks in my area without stumbling upon a church.

I think only California is one of the few `secular`/liberal areas - elsewhere it is one church every 2-3 blocks.

 

[Ray]

I wonder how US being secular or not affects India.

 

[Ray]

I have many friends who are religious church going people. One of them is a reverend. None of them - I repeat, N-O-N-E of them drink.

Choose your company wisely.

Something unholy about frinking?

One takes the sacramental wine.

Part of the ritual.

It is not to get drunk, but merely symbolic!

 

[Ray]

The motto "In God We Trust" appears on US coins and paper currencies. Does that tell anything?

Sure.

It is only in God that you can trust.

Others all over the world are crooks!

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

US is VERY religious my friend hell you can't go three blocks in my area without stumbling upon a church.

After congress came to power there are churches at each junction, in INDIA also. Especially in Andhra Pradesh there are more churches..........

You know one thing, they act as if they are true christians, but the follow the rituals like Hindus.....

Shame on those people.........

 

[civfanatic]

I think only California is one of the few `secular`/liberal areas - elsewhere it is one church every 2-3 blocks.

I once lived in an area with 2-3 churches every one block

 

[W.G.Ewald]

WG Ewald,

I am not saying people become unsecular if they practice religion, that is not my point at all. India is a very religious country for the most part but I can say without the doubt that even the illiterate villager from UP is a hell of a lot more secular than an average American. It appears you don't have a great understanding of what it means to be secular.

Again you did not address the very detailed post of LurkerBaba...we could care less about your erectile dysfunction. :thumb:

Oooh, I will get you for that!

Seriously, the US Government can in no way fund evangelical activities, here or in India or anywhere. There would be an enormous outcry in Congress against it ever happening. Faith-based initiatives are domestic programs which help charities shoulder the burden of social welfare.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Not possible. In all churches wine and a piece of bread is given as sacrament.

Methodists use grape juice.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Like a great magician who uses illusion in his magic tricks, the US is like similar stage where the majority and the individuals who have power profess secular values but are staunch Christians themselves. US is not what it seems to be to an outsider, a disproportionate part of the fundamentalist missionary movements have there origins in the US and they wield lot of influence on the home ground and in countries which are client states to US. They also have a media which portrays US as the savior of the world and the next big thing to heaven, but all those who can distinguish the 'REAL' world from the fantasy know that that world does not work the way to seems to but is totally opposite, but unfortunately those who know that 'REAL' world are in short supply.

Sorry, you are wrong. Read the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States, and Amendment I to the latter. The First Amendment states no state religion will be established. It does not say the people cannot practice their religion.

http://aalto.arch.ksu.edu/jwkplan/images/religion.htm

THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE - FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The first part of this provision is known as the Establishment Clause, and the second part is known as the Free Exercise Clause. Although the First Amendment only refers to Congress, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that the Fourteenth Amendment makes the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses also binding on states.



· To determine whether an action of the federal or state government infringes upon a person's right to freedom of religion, the court must decide what qualifies as religion or religious activities for purposes of the First Amendment.

· The government cannot enact legislation that aids one religion, aids all religions, or prefers one religion over another. It cannot force or influence a person to participate in, or avoid, religion or force a person to profess a particular religious belief. No tax in any amount can be levied to support any religious activities or organizations. Neither a state nor the federal government can participate, whether openly or secretly, in the affairs of any religious groups.

· Because the Establishment Clause calls for government neutrality in matters involving religion, the government need not be hostile toward religions because such an approach would be favoring those who do not believe in religion over those who do. In addition, if the government denies religious speakers the ability to speak or punishes them for their speech, it violates the First Amendment's right to freedom of speech. The Supreme Court held in 1981 that it was unconstitutional for a state university to prohibit a religious group from using its facilities when the facilities were open for use by organizations of all other kinds.

 

[Das ka das]

Oooh, I will get you for that!

Seriously, the US Government can in no way fund evangelical activities, here or in India or anywhere. There would be an enormous outcry in Congress against it ever happening. Faith-based initiatives are domestic programs which help charities shoulder the burden of social welfare.

Sir, we all agree the Constitution is a very secular, enlightened document but the fact remains the government quite isn't, me and several others have given you ample proof, it is up to you to decide if its all "hindu propaganda" or detailed facts.

For that matter, many Scandinavian countries despite being bastions of atheism put tons of money into missionary business. I don't think any country in the West is truly secular with France banning burkhas and England saying that its a Christian country.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Sir, we all agree the Constitution is a very secular, enlightened document but the fact remains the government quite isn't, me and several others have given you ample proof, it is up to you to decide if its all "hindu propaganda" or detailed facts.

For that matter, many Scandinavian countries despite being bastions of atheism put tons of money into missionary business. I don't think any country in the West is truly secular with France banning burkhas and England saying that its a Christian country.

If you are looking for theocracies, look elsewhere than Europe and America.

 

[Das ka das]

If you are looking for theocracies, look elsewhere than Europe and America.

I find it futile to argue with you any further on this as you will not look at the facts presented.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I find it futile to argue with you any further on this as you will not look at the facts presented.

You did not make your case, and the subject is extremely tangential to the forum in any case..

 

[Razor]

Bobby and Nikki obviously don't look American, and people will vote for persons with whom they identify, it's natural. One of the ways Bobby and Nikki tried to minimize the gap between themselves and the people, was to convert to Christianity. That being said, Christianity does play a part in the lives of the American especially the older generations.