Is Russia still our friend? Poll

[Zebra]

I don't know whether the Rockefellers are supporting Russia.Assuming they are supporting Russia, I don't know why.

I don't know whether the Rockefellers are supporting AAP.
Assuming they are supporting AAP, I don't know why.

I don't know whether the Rothschilds are supporting Modi.
Assuming they are supporting Modi, I don't know why.

Are you derailing thread! As usual.

I don't care whether the Rockefellers are supporting Russia or not.

I asked....Then why Russians allow them in Russia?

I asked it bcz their hands are in same gloves.

And if you don't know or you prefer to lie here it is your choice, but google is guru, on top it its free also. Help yourself.

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Is Russia still our friend ?

My a$$ friend.
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Looks like DFI is a propaganda pro Russia forum.

 

[pmaitra]

@Casper, not interested in your a$$. If you have itch there, see a doctor.

Are you derailing thread! As usual.

Nope. You sought clarification. I gave clarification. Do you read what you write?

I asked....Then why Russians allow them in Russia?

And I am asking you, you first prove that the Rockefellers are supporting Russia.

Looks like DFI is a propaganda pro Russia forum.

The Ukraine Thread at one point looked like a Neo-Nazi propaganda thread.
The Chinook-Halo thread looked like a US arms peddling thread.

See that? I can complain too.

 

[SajeevJino]

The Ukraine Thread at one point looked like a Neo-Nazi propaganda thread.

Now It's a Russian Propaganda Thread with bashing Ukrainian service man and it's sovereignty

The Chinook-Halo thread looked like a US arms peddling thread.

lol.. why IAF chooses the Chinook ,

 

[pmaitra]

Now It's a Russian Propaganda Thread with bashing Ukrainian service man and it's sovereignty



lol.. why IAF chooses the Chinook ,

Ah, the guy who expresses solidarity with an abusive member hath spoken.

Ukrainian servicemen? You mean those civilian killers and the Nazi thugs? I have no respect for them. I don't care what uniform they wear. I don't care what flag they fly. They are war criminals. Period.

I place them in the same category as the soldiers of the Gurkha Regiment and Baloch Regiment who opened fire on civilians in Jalliwanwala Bagh. They are scoundrels.

 

[SajeevJino]

Ah, the guy who expresses solidarity with an abusive member hath spoken.

do you speaking about @Akim sir

Ukrainian servicemen? You mean those civilian killers and the Nazi thugs? I have no respect for them. I don't care what uniform they wear. I don't care what flag they fly. They are war criminals. Period.

Sure, Pro Russians calls those service mans whatever they can, to prove the Russian Backed terrorists inside Ukraine is saint

I place them in the same category as the soldiers of the Gurkha Regiment and Baloch Regiment who opened fire on civilians in Jalliwanwala Bagh. They are scoundrels.

Feel sounded what Pakistanis say when Indian Soldiers start lathi charging against pro Pakistani Protesters in Kashmir

 

[Energon]

In light of the recent situation where Russia has been trying to sell jet engines to PAF, conducting military ops with Pakistan and then blackmailing us on prices of many products, is it time we stop being a friend of Russia and make this relationship transactional ?

I think India and Russia will be "friends" for some time to come. This is only because Russia's entire sense of self depends upon relentlessly ruminating about the Soviet era, and Indians are unable to give their hyperactive emotional core a rest. At the end of the day anyone who is credited with playing a major role in a decisive war against Pakistan will always be considered a friend in India regardless of any negative actions or outright crimes that party may have committed prior to or since that war.

However if we are to talk about the practical nature of the symbiotic relationship between the two countries, I would say it has been defunct for about 15 years now. Fact of the matter is that both countries voluntarily chose to embark upon divergent pathways. India decided to take the slow painful journey of economic progress while Russia worked its way down some bizarre revanchist retrograde path.

The blame here mostly lies with Russia. The fall of the Soviet Union may have brought about an end to the Migs for Mithun program, however Russia did not reinvest in a stable society or any sort of a mechanism to support a healthy industrial base in the late 90s. This in turn resulted in the inability to keep innovating and offering an array of modern military merchandize to long time buyers of big ticket items like India. Eventually the nuclear submarines became spontaneously combustible and the ginormous radar cross sections of the Sukhois could be detected using iPhone apps. Granted one could also argue that both Mithun-da and disco dancing became irrelevant. Either way I don't see anything palpable connecting India and Russia in the future.

On the other hand as Russia isolates itself from the rest of the world it will have to resort to formulating bonds with other pariah nations who are willing to pay for Russian military hardware. A relationship with Pakistan was inevitable.

 

[pmaitra]

do you speaking about @Akim sir



Sure, Pro Russians calls those service mans whatever they can, to prove the Russian Backed terrorists inside Ukraine is saint



Feel sounded what Pakistanis say when Indian Soldiers start lathi charging against pro Pakistani Protesters in Kashmir

That was just an anecdote. You have a habit of supporting and encouraging abusive members and repeat violators of forum rules, as long as you agree with their position.

Terrorists are those that kill civilians. Indian soldiers don't kill civilians. They act in self defense. Kiev regime forces indiscriminately shell civilians.

If any Indian soldier kills civilians, he will be punished as per the law of India. Read about Col. Pathania. If a Kiev regime combatant kills civilians, he is considered a patriot.

Big difference.

Kashmir was historically part of India. Most of Ukraine was historically part of Russia.

Ukraine voted to remain part of USSR in 1991. Kashmir acceded to India with the support of their elected PM Sheikh Abdullah.

This is my last response to all your off-topic questions.

 

[asianobserve]

Anyone who still believes that there is constancy in international relations is dangerously naive. There is simply no "permanent friend" in international relations, just permanent adherence to national interests.

With the increasing strategic drift between the US and China, Russia is repositioning itself with China. For Russia China has simply too many strategic benefits that no other country can match (economic, military and diplomatic). Russia will not sell China S-400 if it places more weight to India than China (Sold: Russian S-400 Missile Defense Systems to China | The Diplomat). The Russo-Chino S-400 deal is significant because it has strategic security implications for China's neighbors and foes (including India).

 

[sgarg]

you mean Su 35 and S 400 Sytems and the latest Chini Russian Bank



the P 8, C 17, C 130

How classy when we see the American Jumbo in op Rahat

You are crazy. Give me a single case of an American "gift" to India. Your friend Pakistan get USD 1B military aid every year. What about India??
India has paid top dollar for C-130, C-17 etc. IAF will be forced to use these planes when bought - or else these will become tarmac decorations.

 

[sgarg]

Anyone who still believes that there is constancy in international relations is dangerously naive. There is simply no "permanent friend" in international relations, just permanent adherence to national interests.

With the increasing strategic drift between the US and China, Russia is repositioning itself with China. For Russia China has simply too many strategic benefits that no other country can match (economic, military and diplomatic). Russia will not sell China S-400 if it places more weight to India than China (Sold: Russian S-400 Missile Defense Systems to China | The Diplomat). The Russo-Chino S-400 deal is significant because it has strategic security implications for China's neighbors and foes (including India).

India is also looking at normalized relations with China. Your confusion begins with assumptions about India's foreign policy.
India has always tried to have a neutral stance between east and west. India never aligned with west, and is not likely to do so in the future.

India may buy American equipment or European equipment but these are commercial buys and in no way signify an alignment.

 

[SajeevJino]

You are crazy. Give me a single case of an American "gift" to India. Your friend Pakistan get USD 1B military aid every year. What about India??
India has paid top dollar for C-130, C-17 etc. IAF will be forced to use these planes when bought - or else these will become tarmac decorations.

then list me some Russian Gifts to India,

 

[sgarg]

I think India and Russia will be "friends" for some time to come. This is only because Russia's entire sense of self depends upon relentlessly ruminating about the Soviet era, and Indians are unable to give their hyperactive emotional core a rest. At the end of the day anyone who is credited with playing a major role in a decisive war against Pakistan will always be considered a friend in India regardless of any negative actions or outright crimes that party may have committed prior to or since that war.

However if we are to talk about the practical nature of the symbiotic relationship between the two countries, I would say it has been defunct for about 15 years now. Fact of the matter is that both countries voluntarily chose to embark upon divergent pathways. India decided to take the slow painful journey of economic progress while Russia worked its way down some bizarre revanchist retrograde path.

The blame here mostly lies with Russia. The fall of the Soviet Union may have brought about an end to the Migs for Mithun program, however Russia did not reinvest in a stable society or any sort of a mechanism to support a healthy industrial base in the late 90s. This in turn resulted in the inability to keep innovating and offering an array of modern military merchandize to long time buyers of big ticket items like India. Eventually the nuclear submarines became spontaneously combustible and the ginormous radar cross sections of the Sukhois could be detected using iPhone apps. Granted one could also argue that both Mithun-da and disco dancing became irrelevant. Either way I don't see anything palpable connecting India and Russia in the future.

On the other hand as Russia isolates itself from the rest of the world it will have to resort to formulating bonds with other pariah nations who are willing to pay for Russian military hardware. A relationship with Pakistan was inevitable.

You are basically brainwashed. You repeat the same lies which are repeated in all American mouthpieces.

The fact is Russia looked West and stayed on Westward course for 15 years after dissolution of USSR. It was ONLY AFTER West's role in fomenting trouble within Russia became clear to Russian leaders that Russia did a course correction.

The situation with India is completely different. India has ALWAYS taken an independent and neutral stance in its foreign policy. India never aligned itself with USSR. The socialist leanings of Nehru may have caused Nehru to lean towards USSR somewhat BUT it was not an alignment.

India as a civilization has always been INWARD LOOKING. This has not changed in modern times.

 

[sgarg]

then list me some Russian Gifts to India,

USSR provided inexpensive military goods to India from early 60s to late 80s. These goods were provided under Ruble-Rupee trades and mostly on credit - meaning highly subsidized rates. This only stopped after fall of USSR.
Russia is different from USSR. It has to be. And there is no reason anymore for Russia to subsidize India as Indian economy is larger than Russian economy.

 

[SajeevJino]

USSR provided inexpensive military goods to India from early 60s to late 80s. These goods were provided under Ruble-Rupee trades and mostly on credit - meaning highly subsidized rates. This only stopped after fall of USSR.
Russia is different from USSR. It has to be. And there is no reason anymore for Russia to subsidize India as Indian economy is larger than Russian economy.

So no gifts and coming with 1960-1980 , but latest blah blah matter is Vikramaditya and the T 50 , please come to 2015

 

[sgarg]

So no gifts and coming with 1960-1980 , but latest blah blah matter is Vikramaditya and the T 50 , please come to 2015

How much Vik cost India?? Some 2.2 billion USD. Can ANY Western source provide that kind of price?? India's own building effort is costing far more.

You should be ashamed of your own lies.

 

[SajeevJino]

How much Vik cost India?? Some 2.2 billion USD. Can ANY Western source provide that kind of price?? India's own building effort is costing far more.

You should be ashamed of your own lies.

Sir, Brand new IAC 1 costs less than $3 billions, ever heard of US offer of USS Kitty Hawk

 

[Virendra]

Russia is nobody's friend. Russia has never been anybody's friend. It has allies and competitors, much like anyone else in the nations.
Time and again we keep forgetting that Russians are perhaps the most cold blooded players of geo-politics.
It is their objective insight of world intrigue and its ruthless utilization, that they have been more effective in protecting their interests, than the even more powerful players like US.
If there's anyone who knows best how to wield power however much it be, and work wonders with it, it is Russia.

As for the Indian concerns on Russia in regard to Pak-China; Russians have due reasons :
--Russia currently is trying to melt ice with Pak for long term reasons, as US-NATO are drawing back from Af-Pak theatre.
--Russia is also trying to break west imposed chokes (that pose an existential threat) and thus the stress on currencly deals, oil deals, defense deals with China-Pak etc.

It is true that the world has moved on from the bi-polar cold war. But another truth lies beside it, Russia is emerging smarter and grittier.
Wise ones deliberately keep their ranks hazy in geo-politics. That is because their stands are dictated by how best the self-preservation can be forwarded based on ground realities. Groudd realities that are ever changing.
Regardless of how much we would want/imagine, these things don't work by college canteen emotions like friendship etc.
From where we stand today and specially where Russia stands, we can't stop them from selling to whoever they want.
What we can do however is ride the learning curve - build indigenous, buy from whoever we want to and sell to whoever we want to, smile nice, talk soft to all and carry a big stick everywhere.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[sgarg]

Sir, Brand new IAC 1 costs less than $3 billions, ever heard of US offer of USS Kitty Hawk

Offer your argument when Vikrant is commissioned. This argument has no meaning now. What about USS Kitty Hawk?? Can any American origin ship fight against Pakistan?? USA will sanction India the day a war starts with Pakistan. USA is in bed with KSA, which is well known to anybody who has a little knowledge.

 

[asianobserve]

India is also looking at normalized relations with China. Your confusion begins with assumptions about India's foreign policy.

Then India must be prepared to concede in favor of China in the territorial issue it has went to war against it in the past and on a lot more issues. If India goes this way then even Nehru (before the Sino-INdo War) will look like a genius (it's unforgivable to be fooled the second time)... (China will not concede a single inch on its territorial claims versus India)

India has always tried to have a neutral stance between east and west. India never aligned with west, and is not likely to do so in the future.

You need to be more specific for India has diverged and converged many times with the West in the past. It's pointless to be talking of general assumptions.

India may buy American equipment or European equipment but these are commercial buys and in no way signify an alignment.

You're too naive. No country buys billions upon billions of Dollars of military equipment from other countries purely on account of economic advantages.

 

[sgarg]

@Virendra, it is all about what India offers Russia, which is not much. India has allowed itself to trail in every strategic industry. Can you count a single industry where India is a leader.

Geographically India is boxed in in South Asia due to loss of valuable Punjab, Sindh, and Gandhar to the West to Muslim Pakistan. This limits India's influence in central Asia. Similarly India is boxed in from the North and East.

Diplomacy is a game of give and take. Some inexperienced members want only "take" without any "give". How is that possible.

USA selling some equipment to India does not become a great proposition for India by default. What is more important is how that helps India achieve its objectives.