Irish Militant Nationalism Resurfacing Again

[mayfair]

One aspect often overlooked in examining Irish Nationalism is that it is as much (if not more) about secratarianism as about ther urge to bring about a united Éire (under the banner of their own sect, of course). A lot of innocents were killed just because they did not belong to the same sect.

Sounds frightfully similar to the Islamists in Kashmir and Sunni extremists in Pakhanaland.

 

[pmaitra]

MayFair,

It is true many innocents have died in the hands of the IRA, but surely, one cannot equate them with Kashmir's Islamists. There was a population decimation upto 4 million in Ireland as a result of British policies, nothing of that kind has ever happened in Kashmir as a result of Indian policies.

Not sure whether these two can be equated.

 

[asianobserve]

My opinion, and not a humble one:

It is long overdue that the Irish Nationalists evicted the Brits, specifically the English, from their land.

Tell that to the "Northern Irish Unionists"...

 

[asianobserve]

My opinion, and not a humble one:

It is long overdue that the Irish Nationalists evicted the Brits, specifically the English, from their land.

Tell that to the "Northern Ireland Unionists"...

 

[mayfair]

MayFair,

It is true many innocents have died in the hands of the IRA, but surely, one cannot equate them with Kashmir's Islamists. There was a population decimation upto 4 million in Ireland as a result of British policies, nothing of that kind has ever happened in Kashmir as a result of Indian policies.

Not sure whether these two can be equated.

I was merely pointing out that the way the two entities view nationalism from a narrow prism of secretarianism is not too dissimilar. For the IRA, a protestant Irish is as waji bull cutlet as a kafir is to many Islamists (including those in J&K or L-e-J in Pakhanaland). Is it a mere coincidence that the Nationalists are almost entirely Catholics, while the Unionists are mostly Protestants? This is not just true of RoI or Northern Ireland, but also in Glasgow, where the descendants of the Irish immigrants are fierce opponents of the crown and the union.

It is certain that Kashmiri movement has no place for non-muslims or even non-sunnis. My question is whether Irish nationalism has any place for Protestants? Given the history, it would be extremely naive to think of answer to that in positive and in that case the two movements are united in their bigotry against those that do not share the faith.

 

[Ray]

Whatever.

Terror tactics is back!

 

[blueblood]

I have always liked the Irish nationalism but not the militant one. Here's one song that I like to listen every now and then.

 

[pmaitra]

I was merely pointing out that the way the two entities view nationalism from a narrow prism of secretarianism is not too dissimilar. For the IRA, a protestant Irish is as waji bull cutlet as a kafir is to many Islamists (including those in J&K or L-e-J in Pakhanaland). Is it a mere coincidence that the Nationalists are almost entirely Catholics, while the Unionists are mostly Protestants? This is not just true of RoI or Northern Ireland, but also in Glasgow, where the descendants of the Irish immigrants are fierce opponents of the crown and the union.

It is certain that Kashmiri movement has no place for non-muslims or even non-sunnis. My question is whether Irish nationalism has any place for Protestants? Given the history, it would be extremely naive to think of answer to that in positive and in that case the two movements are united in their bigotry against those that do not share the faith.

Yes, the points you made are valid.

What I am saying is that Kashmir has been historically Indian while Ireland never was. As a matter of fact, English are immigrants from what today is Germany. Secondly, it were the English who started all this and they engineered the Potato Famine, not the IRA or Irish Nationalists. India has never done that and all the trouble in Kashmir started with none other than the sectarians, not India.

So the similarities you mentioned notwithstanding, Kashmiri separatism and Irish Nationalism are not the same thing.

 

[civfanatic]

The Scots, Welsh, and Irish are the true natives of the British Isles, the descendants of the ancient Celtic tribes which inhabited the region since pre-Roman times.

The Anglo-Saxons (i.e. English) are medieval invaders from Germany.

 

[ejazr]

Well this looks like its in addition to the new found Scottish independance drive taking place as well

Scottish independence: the essential guide | Politics | guardian.co.uk

 

[pmaitra]

As long as the Celts don't ask the Anglo-Saxons to pack up and leave, I think there should be no problem having a civil trivorce.

Tagging onto Uncle Sam and celebrating the collapse of the USSR, Thatcher and Co. (and successors) could have never imagined this day would befall the once Great Britain!

Tsk tsk!

P.S.: John Major had minimal contribution.

 

[mayfair]

Yes, the points you made are valid.

What I am saying is that Kashmir has been historically Indian while Ireland never was. As a matter of fact, English are immigrants from what today is Germany. Secondly, it were the English who started all this and they engineered the Potato Famine, not the IRA or Irish Nationalists. India has never done that and all the trouble in Kashmir started with none other than the sectarians, not India.

So the similarities you mentioned notwithstanding, Kashmiri separatism and Irish Nationalism are not the same thing.

All fair points and I agree. Which is why I am fully behind our country and the armed forces where Kashmir is concerned and to be honest, couldn't give a toss to Anglo-Saxons and the Celts tearing each other a new one, every now and then.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

WG,

What is the connection between the Scots and the Irish?

There are a lot of Irish in Scot Regiments.

Sir, you have a more discerning ear than I if you can tell the difference.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

The Scots, Welsh, and Irish are the true natives of the British Isles, the descendants of the ancient Celtic tribes which inhabited the region since pre-Roman times.

The Anglo-Saxons (i.e. English) are medieval invaders from Germany.

And we thought Britain went downhill after 1066. :-D

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Well this looks like its in addition to the new found Scottish independance drive taking place as well

Scottish independence: the essential guide | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Getting back the Stone of Scone was just the start.

Stone of Scone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Return to Scotland

In 1996, in a symbolic response to growing dissatisfaction among Scots at the prevailing constitutional settlement, the British Conservative Government decided that the Stone should be kept in Scotland when not in use at coronations. On 3 July 1996 it was announced in the House of Commons that the Stone would be returned to Scotland, and on 15 November 1996, after a handover ceremony at the border between representatives of the Home Office and of the Scottish Office, it was transported to Edinburgh Castle, arriving on 30 November 1996, where it remains along with the crown jewels of Scotland (the Honours of Scotland) in the Crown Room. The handover was done on St. Andrew's Day (patron Saint of Scotland); the Queen sent as her representative Prince Andrew. Provision has been made to transport the stone to Westminster Abbey when it is required there for future coronation ceremonies.[14]