INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

kr9

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You used a ballistic coefficient almost double the real value. USA civilian market develops for anything that has a market.

I don't know I like 556 for the weight & range over 762x39. 308 is a hunter or sniper's weapon, not average infantrymen.
The ballistic coefficient is not double.
For the standard NATO 7.62x51mm military round the ballistic coefficient is near 0.385-0.395. Mean value is 0.387

Also the velocity of the 5.56 round is less than that of 7.62 NATO after distances of 400 yds - as tested and documented in the 'US Army Small Arms Systems Laboratory Directorate' when developing the M16 rifle.

The link for the book detailing this is :
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-...Technical Notes on Small Arms Design 1968.pdf

It is an interesting read.
Ballistic coefficient (page 29 of the .pdf) & velocity / energy charts (page 34 of the .pdf).

This was the only book available on net on small arms design. Most others are out of stock / discontinued.
If you have any other reading material, I would like a link.:)
 

punjab47

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The ballistic coefficient is not double.
For the standard NATO 7.62x51mm military round the ballistic coefficient is near 0.385-0.395. Mean value is 0.387

Also the velocity of the 5.56 round is less than that of 7.62 NATO after distances of 400 yds - as tested and documented in the 'US Army Small Arms Systems Laboratory Directorate' when developing the M16 rifle.

The link for the book detailing this is :
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/Books/Technical Notes on Small Arms Design 1968.pdf

It is an interesting read.
Ballistic coefficient (page 29 of the .pdf) & velocity / energy charts (page 34 of the .pdf).

This was the only book available on net on small arms design. Most others are out of stock / discontinued.
If you have any other reading material, I would like a link.:)
Hmm yea I googled m80 fmj ballistic coefficient & got g1 of 393 but g7 was 0.2
 

kr9

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Hmm yea I googled m80 fmj ballistic coefficient & got g1 of 393 but g7 was 0.2
Yes,
G7 for 7.62 NATO is 0.200 - 0.207.
But G7 for INSAS 5.56 OFB 64 grain is 0.161.
So 7.62 NATO is not to be under-estimated.

But I recalculated and, as the 77 grain 5.56 will have the same form factor (G7) and diameter, the Ballistic Coefficient (G7) for OTM 77 grain will be 0.196.

So it will be good enough to match the 7.62 NATO , as you suggested. I hope that we induct the round for INSAS.

RECREATED CHART FOR TRAJECTORY: G7 | 100 yards zero | 1.5" sight height

INSAS 5.56 OFB 64 grain:

450 yds | 43.25" drop | 1762 fps | 441 ft.lbs
750 yds | 192.63" drop | 1154 fps | 189 ft.lbs

NATO 5.56 OTM 77 grain:

450 yds | 45.39" drop | 1812 fps | 562 ft.lbs
750 yds | 188.76" drop | 1293 fps | 286 ft.lbs

NATO 7.62 147grain:

450 yds | 46.12" drop | 1807 fps | 1066 ft.lbs
750 yds | 190.56"drop | 1298 fps | 550 ft.lbs
 

kr9

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Kunal Biswas

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Dalal desperate and back again, Take that with pinch of salt ..

Foreign rifles failed during 2012 as well as 2014 trails ..

Excalibur was approved back in 2006 but now getting introduce, It will remain in service until MICWS get operational in mass ..

I have posted various links in this thread abt the topic, Do see them ..

EXCALIBUR Reviews:-
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/hunt-on-for-new-generation-assault-rifles-upgraded-insas-not-a-replacement/articleshow/50387635.cms

Some of the squads trying out the Excalibur are saying it is still inadequate. Other squads say it is an improvement.
I would appreciate anyone with more info on this subject.

Trials are supposed to be over by March. Are we back to square one with the INSAS rifle???:shock:
 
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kr9

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Dalal desperate and back again, Take that with pinch of salt ..

Foreign rifles failed during 2012 as well as 2014 trails ..

Excalibur was approved back in 2006 but now getting introduce, It will remain in service until MICWS get operational in mass ..

I have posted various links in this thread abt the topic, Do see them ..

Thanks.........................................................................
 

tharun

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@Kunal Biswas Do we still use brass and lead in manufacture of ammunition?
Why can't we use aluminium or steel in catridge and steel core instead of lead because they are cheap...and any will they effect the performance of bullet.
 

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OFB OFFERING ARMY NEW ASSAULT RIFLES

Link :- http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/02/ofb-offering-army-new-assault-rifles.html



Nagpur:
After tests carried out on the indigenously developed 5.56mm assault rifle at Mhow, Madhya Pradesh, over a month ago proved to be successful, the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) hopes that it may be soon accepted by the Army. At the same time, the first batch of indigenously developed Bofors type guns may be dispatched to the Army in March, said OFB director general AK Prabhakar.

He was in the city to attend the valedictory function at National Academy of Defence Production, which trains officers joining the Indian Ordnance Factory Service (IOFS) cadre.

The assault rifle is expected to replace the current 5.56 Insas rifle, which is the standard issue weapon for the Army since the mid-1990s. The Insas, which is also an ordnance factory product, was often reported to be inferior to the AK-47s used by militants.

Over a couple of years ago, the Army had invited offers for rifles with interchangeable barrels but did not get any response from global players. In the meantime, since the Army is looking for single barrel rifles now, OFB is also pushing this gun developed jointly with DRDO.


OFB "Trichy Assault Rifle" is a Multi Caliber Individual Weapon System (MCIWS) which incidentally looks like a Hybrid version of the AR-15 & M4 Rifles


"The assault rifle is going to be the owner's pride and neighbour's envy," said Prabhakar while addressing the NADP function. Later, speaking to newspersons, he said that the process is at an advanced stage. "The tests were successful and it is hoped that the Army will accept it," he said.

A source in the OFB added the current Insas available with the Army is technically not an assault rifle. The new weapon being developed by OFB has rapid fire feature, matching it with the AK-47. The ordnance factory has also developed an assault rifle of 7.62mm calibre, which is being offered to the para military forces.
Prabhakar said that apart from the 155x45 mm calibre howitzers based on the Bofors guns, which will reach the Army in March, the OFB has also developed a 155x52 mm gun, which is a higher version. It was test fired recently at Pokhran. This gun has a higher range than the 155x45mm calibre and was made by improvising the existing 130mm guns available with the Army.

The ordnance factories are carrying out production orders worth Rs13,000 core, which the OFB plans to take to Rs15,000 crore the next year and Rs. 20,000 core the year after, said the OFB Chief.

.................................................................................................

In this article the TRICHY rifle is given with a caption that it is an MCIWS . Is it a typo of OFB has seriously turned it into an MC Rifle ??
 

kr9

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Is that^ the real thing, or is it shopped ? :notsure:
Checked the link.

The article is taken from the TOI. But whoever posted it at "indiadefencenews.in" just added the pics for extra masala, I guess. The original article can be seen by clicking "source>>" given at the bottom of the page.

The first picture is actually a photoshopped version of INSAS + AR15 furniture. The second is an FN FAL Paratrooper version (non commonwealth as seen from the muzzle break) that has been modded.
 

cobra commando

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Checked the link.

The article is taken from the TOI. But whoever posted it at "indiadefencenews.in" just added the pics for extra masala, I guess. The original article can be seen by clicking "source>>" given at the bottom of the page.

The first picture is actually a photoshopped version of INSAS + AR15 furniture. The second is an FN FAL Paratrooper version (non commonwealth as seen from the muzzle break) that has been modded.
Yep got it. Para FAL with Vltor CASV-FL:
www.militarymorons.com/weapons/longguns2.html#casvfl
 

aagni99

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NEW DELHI: A high powered meeting to be steered by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is set to take a fresh look at the stuck close quarter carbine procurement plans of the Indian Army and take stock of the long pending short rangesurface to air missile system (SRSAM) that is to be jointly developed with France
The MoD is likely to give a go ahead for a Rs 2300 cr order for constructing a new line of large survey vessels. A detailed update on the Maitri SRSAM project is likely to be discussed at the meeting as well.

Parrikar, who is currently reviewing the defence procurement process, is to be given a detailed briefing on the Close Quarter Carbine project and is also likely to discuss further reforms on the purchase process.

Several projects are expected to come up at the Defence Acquisition Committee (DAC) meeting on February 23, including a proposal for the construction of four large survey vessels. Sources have told ET that the defence ministry could give a go ahead for the project.

Also to be discussed is the much delayed procurement of new short range carbines for the army. The army has long retired its carbine and has been hunting for replacements for several years without success.

A tender was issued in 2010 to import 44, 600 carbines and trails were competed in 2013 with Beretta, IWI and Colt. However, the project has been stuck since then as only one of the three competitors - Israeli IWI - qualified as the `night sights' of the other two failed.

A final decision on going ahead with the project is expected shortly with the Army exploring an option to separate `night sights' with the main contract that will enable at least two of the three competitors to qualify. The sights could then be made separately by BEL. The other option would be to cancel the tender and start the acquisition process afresh.
 

Kunal Biswas

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^^ They actually failed in trails in 2012 as well as 2014, No talks i am aware abt carbines ..
 

Hari Sud

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What stage of acceptance is the Excaliber rifle?

Are we waiting for tests on multicaliber rifle?

Then there is unending confusion on the carbine. Parrikar added to the confusion.

In each of the cases, every web site manager gathers fresh but faulty information and posts it as the gospel. Then the discussion begin including on this website about adopting one or the other rifle.

Unending criticism goes on for current INSAS. It was designed to fire a burst of three rounds but ignorant people take it as a drawback and continue to talk.

No amount of persuasion is enough to stop it. Including ex COAS Gen VK Singh, saying INSAS is fine for the purpose it was built.

Can somebody with sufficient knowledge clarify the situation.

Ignore the arms merchants and their agents in Delhi.
 

Kunal Biswas

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INSAS improved 1B1, With 30rnd magazine from LMG and Zess red dot sight and 40mm UBGL ..
I just hope that next time someone replace the buttstock with AKM`s folding one, They are interchangeable ..
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Its operational and distribution on, It will take no less than 5-6 years for all Infantry units to have it ..

Multi-cal is in trails ..

Perhaps, Someone like to add word 'carbine' for some dalal`s hope, ..

What stage of acceptance is the Excaliber rifle?

Are we waiting for tests on multicaliber rifle?

Then there is unending confusion on the carbine. Parrikar added to the confusion.
 

tharun

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Do our INSAS is based on Ak or FN FAL................
And Excalibur and MCIWS
 

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