INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

methos

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
799
Likes
302
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

Which caliber is the best depends on the situation - on short range combat 5.56 mm NATO and similar rounds are quite useful, but on longer ranges larger rounds are required.

The 7.62 x 39 mm catridge of the older AK rifles is by far the worst caliber.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

Which caliber is the best depends on the situation - on short range combat 5.56 mm NATO and similar rounds are quite useful, but on longer ranges larger rounds are required.

The 7.62 x 39 mm catridge of the older AK rifles is by far the worst caliber.
Question. What parameters did you define 7,63*39 - worst?
 

Sunder singh

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
539
Likes
144
Question. What parameters did you define 7,63*39 - worst?
1. i dont think 7.62 has more range then 5.56 but it has poor accuracy in AKs.
2. im not a fan of 7.62 bcoz contineouse firong makes for bit tired.
3. huge explosion near ur ears if some firing near u makes u almost deaf.
4. how many magines u can carry with a pair grinades plus pitthu and pouch etc.

why i hate about 5.56
1. no one want its enemy to stand and again fight after geting a hit from u or ur buddy.
2. bullet proof r bcoming lighter and tougher with kavler wat if its doesnt penitrate.
3. prone to climatic condition its rain allmost every day in north east india and snown above tawang and anni.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

1. i dont think 7.62 has more range then 5.56 but it has poor accuracy in AKs.
2. im not a fan of 7.62 bcoz contineouse firong makes for bit tired.
3. huge explosion near ur ears if some firing near u makes u almost deaf.
4. how many magines u can carry with a pair grinades plus pitthu and pouch etc.

why i hate about 5.56
1. no one want its enemy to stand and again fight after geting a hit from u or ur buddy.
2. bullet proof r bcoming lighter and tougher with kavler wat if its doesnt penitrate.
3. prone to climatic condition its rain allmost every day in north east india and snown above tawang and anni.
Why then in the USA actively discuss passing to the cartridge of caliber 6,5-6,8 mm. And he on parameters nearer to М- 43 (7,62mm)?. There is the system: a weapon - a cartridge. you discuss a weapon only. Certainly АК, which was invented in 1946 not to compare to G - 11. But cartridge better what 223 Remington.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

For an infantryman a substantial difference is not present. And that and that cartridges are good. But it is necessary to take into account logistic yet and. Translation of such large army, as Indian on a new caliber is enough nevertheless an expensive thing. Cheaper yet a bunch of Rafal to purchase. It is simpler to work out a new assault rifle under the caliber of army cartridge. You have advantage - there is a cartridge 7,62*39 мм. In the USA of "intermediate cartridge" of such power in an army not.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,824
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

6.8 is better than any other, 6.5 is very good in close ranges as per gelatin tests..

In Indian terrain presently 7.62x39mm have better kill preform ace than 5.56mm, though 5.56mm SS109 can shred Level 3 protection at ranges over 150m..


6.8mm is under Multi-cal AR RFI..


----------------------------------------------

There is a new AR which use M43 rounds and have range over 400m..



Trichy assault rifle
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,824
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

7.62x39 - Kalashnikov
7.62x51 - (NATO standard) SMLE, SLR
7.62x54R - (Rimmed) PK, Dragunov
which one do india use and why any strategy behind
1. In CT ops 7.62m43 have more stopping power and effective against tangos, the recoil of M43 is sustainable..

2. Used in MMG and LMG ( Bren ) one shot one kill round but in AR its not good coz of Recoil so used only in LMG & MMG and now days Sniper Rifles..

3. Used in SVD and these are imported and used in PKM ( Captured ), PKM used in CT as IA dont have a GPMG...


plzz may b they can also tell about countering chinese 5.8 caliber
5.8 preform ace is not at same level as newer 6.5 & 6.8, Its range is little more than M43 but have good stopping power than 5.56mm
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,824
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

2. insas has low kill rate even if not been armored person.

Never underestimate a round, only because it's .22 diameter bullet....

Graphic:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_vJcKa90vLkg/S2RTg_KWWCI/AAAAAAAAHyI/JkspbO3VNfU/s1024/image006.jpg

http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/75688.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/IkeMcgowan/sniper_shot2_292.jpg





---------------------------------------------------------------------

5.56 MM FMJ (SS 109)



Mass 4.0 gm = 61.7Gr

OFB made 5.56MM FMJ

Mass 4.16 gm= 62+ Gr

5.56 mm 62 gr NATO FMJ

 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

I am a not theorist, I am a practical worker. you all see in a table, that 5.45 inflicts more frightful wounds what 7,62. But it in a theory. In Transdniestria, or Chechnya specially passed with АК- 74 on АКМ.
And modern specimens of AR under 7,62, have 6 rifling, other step of rifling, burning sleeve, new gas mechanism, systems absorbing return et cetera. And all these nullify level advantages of small-bore cartridge and 7,62*39 put on a level 6,8*45 mm.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,824
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

I am a practical worker, modern specimens of AR under 7,62, have 6 rifling.And all these nullify level advantages of small-bore cartridge and 7,62*39 put on a level 6,8*45 mm.
I seriously doubt so, because..

Both Rounds fired for 16inch barrel : 415MM

7.62X39mm 123.5 gr Fmj
Velocity is 731.5 m/s
Energy: 2,073.6 J

For a heavy bullet at lesser velocity its Range is 200m straight without elevating..

---------------

6.8mm SPC 115 gr FMJ
Velocity is 785 m/s..
Energy: 2,297 J

For lighter bullet with more velocity its Range is 400m straight without elevating..

----------------------------------------------------

But it can be possible if longer barrel Rifle is used to fire 7.62X39mm the range can be increased..



This Indian Rifle which is heavy influenced by FAL & AKM with a barrel length of 464mm archived firing 7.62X39 at ranges 400meters..

----------------------------------------------------

Regarding Wound i assume 7.62mm also trembled but unlikely 5.45mm/5.56mm preform much better in this regard..

But

7.62 X 39 a slower and Heavy bullet have better Hydrostatic shock which works better in stopping Tangos, regardless where it hits..

Hydrostatic shock or hydraulic shock describes the observation that a penetrating projectile can produce remote wounding and incapacitating effects in living targets through a hydraulic effect in their liquid-filled tissues, in addition to local effects in tissue caused by direct impact.[1][2] There is scientific evidence that hydrostatic shock can produce remote neural damage and produce incapacitation more quickly than blood loss effects.
Hydrostatic shock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

You again compare descriptions for firing from a regular weapon. But ordinary cartridges are long-livers . Cartridge 7,62*54 (1891), did not especially change from 1906, and used and now in the modern Russian machine guns "Pecheneg". Cartridge 7,62*39 in the modern Ukrainian sniper rifles able to strike exactly target on distance 800-900 meters. At the old machine-gun of RPD quite another ballistic what at RPK - and they use identical ammunition.
P.S. RPD-best
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,824
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

Cartridge 7,62*39 in the modern Ukrainian sniper rifles able to strike exactly target on distance 800-900 meters.
Indeed but i believe it have more to do with Rifle barrel length..

New Cartridge increase velocity ?
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,621
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

Indeed but i believe it have more to do with Rifle barrel length..

New Cartridge increase velocity ?
Even if length was to more 7.62 X 39 is not a fit sniper round for 800 - 900 m.

That way 5.56 LMG on bi pod with a single shot mode is better sniper at 500 -600m
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

Indeed but i believe it have more to do with Rifle barrel length..

New Cartridge increase velocity ?
Yes, you are right. Increased long barrel, ammunition is changed, and that I wrote before. It is a single mechanism Now airplanes and rockets of calculated on computers, but not that that rifles!
Distance 800m.
SVD have MOA -1,04
M-24 have -1,18
experienced Ukrainian Rifle 7,62*39 -1,19 MOA
 

Sunder singh

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
539
Likes
144
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

@ kunal, bhadra & Akim can u tell is im rite or wrong bcoz i think in high alti and mountain warfare u need long range but light weight as u said barrel increase range so bullup gun with 6.5 or 6.8 may b good option bcoz 7.62 creates lot noise in case 7.62 bull it will bang ur ear drum wat u think can we do R & D in this zone.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

@ kunal, bhadra & Akim can u tell is im rite or wrong bcoz i think in high alti and mountain warfare u need long range but light weight as u said barrel increase range so bullup gun with 6.5 or 6.8 may b good option bcoz 7.62 creates lot noise in case 7.62 bull it will bang ur ear drum wat u think can we do R & D in this zone.

You me did not understand. In in mountainous terrain, at less air density, more heavy and large bullet tests the same resistance as well as bullet of small caliber on a plain. And as an aiming firing is conducted on distance 400-600 meters, then advantages of small-bore bullet are lost. Besides in mountains permanent side wind and to the bullet 5,45-5,8 with him heavier coping.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,813
Likes
6,630
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

I am glad people are talking about weight here. There is nothing more important about the logistics and ergonomic effects of weight on a soldier. Considering I can carry more than twice as much 5.56 than 7.62 I will take the smaller round any day. That calibre is covered by snipers and SAW which is where it should stay.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,262
Likes
2,921
Country flag
re: What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

I am glad people are talking about weight here. There is nothing more important about the logistics and ergonomic effects of weight on a soldier. Considering I can carry more than twice as much 5.56 than 7.62 I will take the smaller round any day. That calibre is covered by snipers and SAW which is where it should stay.
It his only advantage is weight. But in jungles or city, better имет a 1 cartridge of 6,8-7,6мм, what 10 cartridges 5,45-5,56. Do you know how many injured was the ricochet of people in Bender (Transnistria)?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top