INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Bleh]

You mean SSS "Saber" .338 lapua magnum rifle ?

No, the OFB one.

It is highly possible that the Trichy Assault Rifle (TAR) could be used instead of AK 203.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...to-latest-russian-ak/articleshow/73941601.cms

TAR is a OFB product, without even full p-rails.
I meant one of the indigenous private industry 7.62×39 from Defexpo to stand up to the task. SSS Defence P-72 ones,

...This unidentified one,

 

[Shaitan]

It is highly possible that the Trichy Assault Rifle (TAR) could be used instead of AK 203.

TAR is fine for police, etc. but no way for the bulk of the IA.

 

[Akula]

Sandeep Uninathan should start making YT videos on Indian small arms. In last 2 years lot of progress has been made.

 

[ALBY]

Comparing Ak203 and Tar is bullshit. You cant compare the quality of both so is the accessories offered by Ak203 over TAR. You can argue that we could add those accessories to Tar, but the cost will be manyfold.
Concerning the models showcased by various firms, none of them had been tested and proven yet. Giving bulk orders of 7.5 lakh will be dumb. Such weapons should be first introduced into police and Capfs like SSB or Itbp and then only should be chosen for army.
Making a single piece and making almost a million is two different things.
Plus the comment of Kalashnikov official concerning selection of Sig716 was a logical one. Only turkey employs modern 7.62 battle rifle in MBR role. Remember what was the exact reason why Slrs were replaced with Insas on first place. Sig716s with modern body rails and all other improvements dont compensate fallouts of a 7.62 rifle in the role of main service rifle. Such weapons are better suited as marksman role only.

 

[ALBY]

No, the OFB one.

TAR is a OFB product, without even full p-rails.
I meant one of the indigenous private industry 7.62×39 from Defexpo to stand up to the task. SSS Defence P-72 ones,

...This unidentified one,

Thats almost like CzBren isn't it?

 

[Subham Show]

Thats almost like CzBren isn't it?

first gen cz 805 bren with a different butt stock

 

[abingdonboy]

Only turkey employs modern 7.62 battle rifle in MBR role. Remember what was the exact reason why Slrs were replaced with Insas on first place. Sig716s with modern body rails and all other improvements dont compensate fallouts of a 7.62 rifle in the role of main service rifle. Such weapons are better suited as marksman role only.

Not really, the 716s aren't going to frontline infantry and it isn't being inducted as a main service rifle. It's going to units in CT/COIN roles.

The news about the 203 deal being stuck is music to my ears but at the same time I had the same hope with the KA226 deal being stuck but all these years later we are still hearing it is inching towards reality. It's probably going to be the worst case scenario where the deal is stretched out indefinitely so the guys with the ancient rotting wooden AKs currently continue to have to make do with them. So they come late and over priced. Russians have a unique ability to extract their pound of flesh from Indian leadership, god knows what kind of leverage they have over them.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

It is better to go with follow on orders for Sig 716 of 36,200. As the Ak-203 deal is stuck in price negotiations, it is the perfect time to conduct trials for the SSS Defence P series of rifles and order them in large quantities.

 

[ALBY]

Not really, the 716s aren't going to frontline infantry and it isn't being inducted as a main service rifle. It's going to units in CT/COIN roles.

The news about the 203 deal being stuck is music to my ears but at the same time I had the same hope with the KA226 deal being stuck but all these years later we are still hearing it is inching towards reality. It's probably going to be the worst case scenario where the deal is stretched out indefinitely so the guys with the ancient rotting wooden AKs currently continue to have to make do with them. So they come late and over priced. Russians have a unique ability to extract their pound of flesh from Indian leadership, god knows what kind of leverage they have over them.

What??? Sigs are for CT ops? I thought it was a misprinted in some media. What good a bulky rifle with big calibre with heavy recoil and low ammo capacity going to do in CT which an Ak cant do? Seems that we didn't learn anything from Sri Lanka. Everyone was happy with Aks in CT areas where line of sight is only upto hundred or 200 mts. Did i miss anything which you find a plus point for Sig 716 in CT role?
Concerning the pricing of Ak203, i dont think we there are not much options available infront of us except Galil and M762 Beryl and Bulgarian top end variants. But Russian Aks have the reputation for being the most reliable ones in their league along with Finnish ones which are no longer produced. I had seen the videos of Galil Ace beating Yugo M70s but not new gen Russian ones, even if they beat them the margin will be narrow which wont justify the price tag of a Galil Ace. I had checked the competition for the standard rifle selection for Pak army which was held recently. Ak103/203 was the winner in most of the tests.

 

[rone]

Comparing Ak203 and Tar is bullshit. You cant compare the quality of both so is the accessories offered by Ak203 over TAR. You can argue that we could add those accessories to Tar, but the cost will be manyfold.
Concerning the models showcased by various firms, none of them had been tested and proven yet. Giving bulk orders of 7.5 lakh will be dumb. Such weapons should be first introduced into police and Capfs like SSB or Itbp and then only should be chosen for army.
Making a single piece and making almost a million is two different things.
Plus the comment of Kalashnikov official concerning selection of Sig716 was a logical one. Only turkey employs modern 7.62 battle rifle in MBR role. Remember what was the exact reason why Slrs were replaced with Insas on first place. Sig716s with modern body rails and all other improvements dont compensate fallouts of a 7.62 rifle in the role of main service rifle. Such weapons are better suited as marksman role only.

I agree with you in first point which you can't compare ak203 with TAR but on second point onwards we both have different view

1. Ak203 and Tar different way of build ak203 build on sheet metals, where TAR on solid metal ( point one for Tar on metallurgy)

2. Price of tar 60k to 70k inr (approx less than 1k usd) where ak203 selling us with out any add-on components like foldable stock ( yes final version getting to the soldier won't have folding stock ) cost 1k usd ( we have to pay additional for sight's and other thing's)

3 new version tar prossed to army 90 % look alike to ak203 army plan to order including rails,

 

[Ujjain]

Are you s

Not really, the 716s aren't going to frontline infantry and it isn't being inducted as a main service rifle. It's going to units in CT/COIN roles.

The news about the 203 deal being stuck is music to my ears but at the same time I had the same hope with the KA226 deal being stuck but all these years later we are still hearing it is inching towards reality. It's probably going to be the worst case scenario where the deal is stretched out indefinitely so the guys with the ancient rotting wooden AKs currently continue to have to make do with them. So they come late and over priced. Russians have a unique ability to extract their pound of flesh from Indian leadership, god knows what kind of leverage they have over them.

Are u sure about deployment of 716s in CI roles? As far as I know first batch of those rifles went to units on LOC.

 

[Johny_Baba]

No, the OFB one.

Oops! My bad...you see i wrote my post at early morning around 2:30 AM,i misread your post as i was kinda "high"

Anyway,even this OFB version of .338 Lapua Magnum rifle seems similar to SSS' Saber to me,a chassy upgrade kit for certain bolt action mechanism and barrel - so same opinion for this rifle as Saber - It could serve IA fine enough.

 

[Bleh]

Not really, the 716s aren't going to frontline infantry and it isn't being inducted as a main service rifle. It's going to units in CT/COIN roles.

What??? Sigs are for CT ops? I thought it was a misprinted in some media. What good a bulky rifle with big calibre with heavy recoil and low ammo capacity going to do in CT which an Ak cant do? Seems that we didn't learn anything from Sri Lanka. Everyone was happy with Aks in CT areas where line of sight is only upto hundred or 200 mts. Did i miss anything which you find a plus point for Sig 716 in CT role?

Are u sure about deployment of 716s in CI roles? As far as I know first batch of those rifles went to units on LOC.

That's probably a misprint by the great Indian media... The general was recently quoted to say their first batch have been received & going to LOC for the long ranged fire exchange.

They'll suck compared to carbines in COIN. Maybe 1-2 per platoon at most.

Thats almost like CzBren isn't it?

first gen cz 805 bren with a different butt stock

Not almost, quite a bit.

Similar short-stroke 7.62×39 with a rotating bolt breechblock. I read they hired from foreign gunsmith to kick-off their series... maybe one from CZUB.

Don't care, as long as it performs. That Ak-1/203 can suck my balls, we need to tweak the rules to get one of the above privately made Indian gun take its place!

 

[Suryavanshi]

Similar short-stroke 7.62×39 with a rotating bolt breechblock. I read they hired from foreign gunsmith to kick-off their series... maybe one from CZUB.

Don't care as long as it performs. Some privately made Indian gun should really take the place of this Ak-1/203 rip-off!

There is more to it than that.
They have been trying to enter gun buisness for 5 years they weren't getting security clearance in India so they designed and tested in their American proxy workshop with help from LMT.
They have got security clearance for manufacturing unit, testing range and Ammunitions manufacturing so they will kick off very soon.
U can't expect a comapny to develope a gun on their own when u don't have policies and infra to support it.
Give them time they will either become our own H&C, Sig, colt or just sell foren rebranded stuff like OFB minus the regular strikes.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Price of SiG 716 - $990

Price of AK 203 - $1000

Price of TAR - $800 ~ $900

The two partners in the joint venture are presently engaged in bringing down the cost from $1,000 per rifle to something more affordable. Even though the AK-203 is a vastly improved and advanced version of the rifle, its iconic predecessor, the AK-47, can be bought for a few hundred dollars in the global arms market.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/480318-india-modi-kalashnikov-defexpo/

 

[ALBY]

Price of SiG 716 - $990

Price of AK 203 - $1000

Price of TAR - $800 ~ $900



https://www.rt.com/op-ed/480318-india-modi-kalashnikov-defexpo/

TAR is 800-900??? Do check the price of Bulgarian M5F41s or even the basic Bulgarian Aks

 

[vampyrbladez]

TAR is 800-900??? Do check the price of Bulgarian M5F41s or even the basic Bulgarian Aks

I am assuming that asking price is Rs. 60,000 aka $850. All you need is an FAB type kit from the factory for the TAR and you have your M5F41 domestic equivalent. Without any telescopic butt-stock, AK 203 purchase is null nd void. Chutiya Russians want us to buy more expensive AK 103.

 

[Mangal]

I am assuming that asking price is Rs. 60,000 aka $850. All you need is an FAB type kit from the factory for the TAR and you have your M5F41 domestic equivalent. Without any telescopic butt-stock, AK 203 purchase is null nd void. Chutiya Russians want us to buy more expensive AK 103.

If army is buying expensive AK203 which will not even have foldable butstock, who is the chutiya here?

 

[vampyrbladez]

If army is buying expensive AK203 which will not even have foldable butstock, who is the chutiya here?

Army won't buy it. I can sense entire Russian lobby sensing this and crying.

 

[vampyrbladez]

The AK 203 does have a folding stock on closer inspection. However it is obvious that even an FAB defence stock is better than this one. The upper hand rail has also been replaced with a non picatinny rail sample. Only the 50 round AK 203 magazine, muzzle break / flash hider, pistol grip and dust cover picatinny rail till the gas block remains. Price should not exceed $800 per unit as is currently envisioned.
If Russians persist with $1000 figure, simply retrofit above changes to TAR and add the Trinetra weapon optics.

Butt stock is foldable like the AK 103.

Final features will be closer to the M5F41.