INSAS Indian Small Arms System

[pmaitra]

I know it's not a INSAS bullpop. I have been saying M-Tar the whole time.


What? This is a regular TAR-21, not a "Zittara" or M-TAR.

I don't know. It is difficult to say from the picture whether this is TAR or Zittara. I know for sure IA wants a rifle with a longer barrel. Zittara has longer barrel than TAR. Otherwise, they are mostly the same weapon.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal,

Zittara is the locally produced version of TAR.
You are right about the specifics about CRPF, IAF and not IA (my mistake).

Compare TAR and X-95 family of weapons:
http://www.israel-weapon.com/files/brochure_2012/IWI_X95_Family.pdf
http://www.israel-weapon.com/files/brochure_2012/IWI_TAVOR_AR.pdf

It's pretty obvious they are variants of each other. The main difference between X-95 family and TAR family is that the former has a very short barrel and a lower muzzle velocity. That is probably why they are issued to IAF SF.

Has Zitarra been inducted? You can tell me better. Is it being produced, well, at least OFB says so:

Ordnance Factory Board
I would also like to point out that IA is more interested in range and accuracy than compactness. That is why Zittara has a longer barrel than the original TAR.

It was meant to be, But never implemented, that OFB page is a error page never got deleted, New page have no mention of it..

Indian Ordnance Factories: Weapons




X-95 is more refined version of TAR-21 regular what IA use, X-95 have minor and major changes..

 

[Shaitan]

I don't know. It is difficult to say from the picture whether this is TAR or Zittara. I know for sure IA wants a rifle with a longer barrel. Zittara has longer barrel than TAR. Otherwise, they are mostly the same weapon.

It's not difficult.

You posted these two as "Zittara", you seriously can't tell the difference?

Barrel length

"Zittara" aka M-TAR - 13.0 in
Regular TAR-21(Second pic) - 18.1 in same as the original Galil

 

[pmaitra]

It's not difficult.

You posted these two as "Zittara", you seriously can't tell the difference?

Barrel length

"Zittara" aka M-TAR - 13.0 in
Regular TAR-21(Second pic) - 18.1 in same as the original Galil

Ok fine the first one is X-95. I didn't examine that carefully and seriously, I didn't care to look so closely, as my point was INSAS Bullpup was rejected.

The second one is either TAR or the longer barreled Zittara. IDK.

But you do get the point don't you? Read my earlier post. The IA wants a rifle with longer barrel and those X-95 family of weapons were meant for CRPF, IAF SF (see Kunal's post, he knows better than me). Compactness is not as important as range and accuracy (for IA, I am not talking about Special Forces).

 

[pmaitra]

It was meant to be, But never implemented, that OFB page is a error page never got deleted, New page have no mention of it..

Indian Ordnance Factories: Weapons




X-95 is more refined version of TAR-21 regular what IA use, X-95 have minor and major changes..

X-95 could be more refined, but I doubt IA will ever induct that. They had earlier insisted on a longer barrel. I could speculate why:

• Longer barrel gives a greater range and accuracy, necessary for a regular soldier.
• INSAS ammo is very powerful and if the barrel is too short, there would be too much flash very close to the operators face.

 

[Shaitan]

I think the 18.3 inch barrel length on the INSAS is sufficient. If India is going to make an advanced bullpup, I think they'll keep the 18.3 inch like Israel kept the 18.1 inch on the Galil to Tavor.

 

[pmaitra]

I think the 18.3 inch barrel length on the INSAS is sufficient. If India is going to make an advanced bullpup, I think they'll keep the 18.3 inch like Israel kept the 18.1 inch on the Galil to Tavor.

Could be. That serves one purpose. You benefit with a compact rifle, but there is no gain w.r.t. range. But then will they induct INSAS or X-95/TAR/Zittara, i.e. an IMI Bullpup rifle with a long barrel? Apparently, they have plenty of options to choose from.

On the other hand, a bullpup with a longer barrel and overall size the same as a standard INSAS AR gives you the benefit of a much longer range, circa 700 m, yet have a weapon the size of a standard INSAS AR.

 

[Shaitan]

It'll be some type of QBU 88 sniper rifle then.

Matter a fact this things barrel length will be a lot longer then even the QBU 88.

 

[pmaitra]

It'll be some type of QBU 88 sniper rifle then.

INSAS LMG is not a sniper rifle. It will be an INSAS LMG but the size of INSAS AR. You can always use a 30 round mag instead of a 20 round mag. Of course, it can always be made to improvised use like a sniper rifle, like the FN-FAL example I had posted earlier.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

X-95 could be more refined, but I doubt IA will ever induct that. They had earlier insisted on a longer barrel. I could speculate why:

• Longer barrel gives a greater range and accuracy, necessary for a regular soldier.
• INSAS ammo is very powerful and if the barrel is too short, there would be too much flash very close to the operators face.

OFB SS109 is used in TAR-21 too, And Insas hardly make any flash even in Night, the reason can be the Gunpowder used in Case, TAR-21 fulfill all the needs and there are spares for it in service, X-95 is also gud and reliable and its barrel length is slightly longer than M4, Rest as you mentioned..

 

[pmaitra]

OFB SS109 is used in TAR-21 too, And Insas hardly make any flash even in Night, the reason can be the Gunpowder used in Case, TAR-21 fulfill all the needs and there are spares for it in service, X-95 is also gud and reliable and its barrel length is slightly longer than M4, Rest as you mentioned..

Thank you. That was a very informative post. I read up on that SS109. Yet another confirmation that IA is taking range very seriously.

 

[Shaitan]

^^^

X-95s barrel length is shorter than the M4.

@P

Let me get this right

You want this thing in the middle to be the standard rifle for every IA soldier?

 

[pmaitra]

Matter a fact this things barrel length will be a lot longer then even the QBU 88.

Doesn't matter how much longer it is than the QBU 88. As long as the rifle is the same size as the INSAS AR, why not use that to our advantage? People are already using the INSAS AR, and shouldn't have a problem with another rifle with the same length but a longer barrel.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Yet another confirmation that IA is taking range very seriously.

Reliability, Range and Precision with good handling and weight..

All factors are Important..

 

[pmaitra]

^^^

X-95s barrel length is shorter than the M4.

Read up more on the ammo.

IA did not have facilities to produce enough of those that is why they issued standard NATO ammo, but the intent was to use the more powerful ammo.

IA wasn't happy with the TAR barrel, so forget about X-95 barrel.

@P

Let me get this right

You want this thing in the middle to be the standard rifle for every IA soldier?

Longer barrel means greater weight. It will be heavier than INSAS. The standard INSAS AR is there to stay. This can be a good augmentation and a possible replacement for INSAS LMG.

Reliability, Range and Precision with good handling and weight..

All factors are Important..

How is INSAS LMG when it comes to precision? I am guessing it is more than the Bren-clones we use, isn't it?

 

[Shaitan]

Read up more on the ammo.

IA did not have facilities to produce enough of those that is why they issued standard NATO ammo, but the intent was to use the more powerful ammo.

IA wasn't happy with the TAR barrel, so forget about X-95 barrel.

I was replying to this....

X-95 is also gud and reliable and its barrel length is slightly longer than M4, Rest as you mentioned..

M-TAR isn't a carbine of TAR-21.

The TC-21 is the Carbine of the regular TAR-21 with the barrel length of 16.1 inches.

TC-21 and CTAR 21 have a slightly longer barrel than the M4.

 

[pmaitra]

I was replying to this....

Just read post #529.

M-TAR isn't a carbine of TAR-21.

The TC-21 is the Carbine of the regular TAR-21 with the barrel length of 16.1 inches.

TC-21 and CTAR 21 have a slightly longer barrel than the M4.

Ok, and your point is?

 

[Shaitan]

Ok, and your point is?

If Kunal said TC-21 or CTAR 21 have a slightly longer barrel than the M4. Instead of X-94, it would have made sense. That's it.

Just read post #529.

Some things you said that needs to corrected in this post...

It's pretty obvious they are variants of each other. The main difference between X-95 family and TAR family is that the former has a very short barrel and a lower muzzle velocity. That is probably why they are issued to IAF SF.

The X-95 is apart of the TAR family.

It's just one variant of many.

I would also like to point out that IA is more interested in range and accuracy than compactness. That is why Zittara has a longer barrel than the original TAR.

This didn't make sense at all.

it doesn't have a longer barrel. How can it? Zittara is a M-TAR with 13 inch barrel.

It's significantly smaller. It's actually the smallest variant.

Do you even know that the X-95, M-TAR(M for Micro), and Zittara are the same?? Except Zittara is supposed to take local ammo.

 

[Shaitan]

There is no variant in the TAR family that has a longer barrel than the regular TAR(18.1 inch). Which is the same as the Galil ARM.

They actually shortened it. Cutting 5 inches the most with X-95, M-TAR, "Zittara".

 

[Kunal Biswas]

How is INSAS LMG when it comes to precision? I am guessing it is more than the Bren-clones we use, isn't it?

Both are different weaponry, though LMGs are very accurate in Semi..