INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[Suryavanshi]

PSU

None can, shipbuilding PSU hace improved a lot but are yet to catch-up with Chinese and Koreans, they probably never will.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Vikramt...The name is enough..

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Can't do anything with that. Even now if you give a follow on order of same size second Vikrant class carrier then again they will take more than 10 yrs despite having all know how and technology to make it.

Something with Indian manufacturing we can get away with.

I don't think that would be the case, a 2nd INS Vikrant will not take more than 5-6 years to be built and comissioned.
The delays in construction of INS Vikrant can be attributed to delays in delivering ABA grade steel from Russia, leading to SAIL and DMRL working from scratch to build it here in India.
Delay in supply of gearbox equipment from Elecon due to complexities involved in making them.
Delay in supply of aviation complex from Russia.

 

[porky_kicker]

None can, shipbuilding PSU hace improved a lot but are yet to catch-up with Chinese and Koreans, they probably never will.

Got to see the bigger picture

No shipbuilder can sustain on defence orders only

Chinese korean shipbuilders got efficient timelines because majority of orders are commercial , which allows them to sustain the big infrastructure manpower needed to sustain high build rates

If indian ship builders have a large share of commercial orders their increased efficiency will reflect in defence ship build times too same as Chinese or koreans

 

[SavageKing456]

Got to see the bigger picture

No shipbuilder can sustain on defence orders only

Chinese korean shipbuilders got efficient timelines because majority of orders are commercial , which allows them to sustain the big infrastructure manpower needed to sustain high build rates

If indian ship builders have a large share of commercial orders their increased efficiency will reflect in defence ship build times too same as Chinese or koreans

Commerical orders like?
The only PSU good in shipbuilding imo is GRSE

 

[ladder]

Got to see the bigger picture

No shipbuilder can sustain on defence orders only

Chinese korean shipbuilders got efficient timelines because majority of orders are commercial , which allows them to sustain the big infrastructure manpower needed to sustain high build rates

If indian ship builders have a large share of commercial orders their increased efficiency will reflect in defence ship build times too same as Chinese or koreans

Cochin Shipyard is building mini bulkers for JSW. Earlier JSW shipping had placed order for two such with Bangladesh.

Now if our shipyards maintain cost and time, they can corner atleast the Indian orders.

Also note that major ports now can only use India made tugs. Also small maintenance dreagers too probably has to be from Indian shipyards.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Vikramt...The name is enough..

I want lot more naval ships named after Chola kings, they were pioneers in the naval area from an Indian context....is it going to be mig-29ks?

 

[ketaki]

I have stopped caring who builds it now PSU , private, JV or Import...
Just give it for use asap...atmanibhar gaya tel lene

 

[abingdonboy]

INS Vikrant aircraft carrier

Is MF-STAR actually installed? Some on twitter are saying it's not fitted even now.


Panels aren't as obvious on the Vikrant as on the P-15As

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Can't do anything with that. Even now if you give a follow on order of same size second Vikrant class carrier then again they will take more than 10 yrs despite having all know how and technology to make it.

Something with Indian manufacturing we can get away with.

Is there any PSU/private company which can built ACs faster than this CSL

None can, shipbuilding PSU hace improved a lot but are yet to catch-up with Chinese and Koreans, they probably never will.

I don't think that would be the case, a 2nd INS Vikrant will not take more than 5-6 years to be built and comissioned.
The delays in construction of INS Vikrant can be attributed to delays in delivering ABA grade steel from Russia, leading to SAIL and DMRL working from scratch to build it here in India.
Delay in supply of gearbox equipment from Elecon due to complexities involved in making them.
Delay in supply of aviation complex from Russia.

Something to ponder which got me thinking when I was going through Strat Front.
For a country with a not that big ship building industry and first aircraft carrier as well as technical constraints we faced, I don’t think it’s that bad a job, could be worse could be better.
Only way to know if things can improve is to build another Vikrant class carrier.

 

[abingdonboy]

Is there any PSU/private company which can built ACs faster than this CSL

Easy to blame PSUs but as has been pointed out elsewhere it's more about a lack of commercial orders and commitments.


What other large navy orders in such a piecemeal fashion? 4 destroyers here, 3 there. Only ordering 1 carrier ensured that it was going to take a long time as economies of scale could not be utilised


History will 100% repeat itself with IAC-2, expect it to take a minimum of a decade to be built- the IN calls itself a builder's navy but it's nothing of the sort, they sabotage the industry at every chance. Why order the follow-on Talwars just because Russia asked? Should've given 3-4 unit orders for GSL for P-17A so the IN would have 3 yard making the 17As in parallel. The 17A is lightyears ahead of the 11356s which will be obsolete from the day they are commissioned.

 

[fire starter]

Easy to blame PSUs but as has been pointed out elsewhere it's more about a lack of commercial orders and commitments.


What other large navy orders in such a piecemeal fashion? 4 destroyers here, 3 there. Only ordering 1 carrier ensured that it was going to take a long time as economies of scale could not be utilised


History will 100% repeat itself with IAC-2, expect it to take a minimum of a decade to be built- the IN calls itself a builder's navy but it's nothing of the sort, they sabotage the industry at every chance. Why order the follow-on Talwars just because Russia asked? Should've given 3-4 unit orders for GSL for P-17A so the IN would have 3 yard making the 17As in parallel. The 17A is lightyears ahead of the 11356s which will be obsolete from the day they are commissioned.

Ever heard of military hardware diplomacy.

 

[SKC]

I don't think that would be the case, a 2nd INS Vikrant will not take more than 5-6 years to be built and comissioned.
The delays in construction of INS Vikrant can be attributed to delays in delivering ABA grade steel from Russia, leading to SAIL and DMRL working from scratch to build it here in India.
Delay in supply of gearbox equipment from Elecon due to complexities involved in making them.
Delay in supply of aviation complex from Russia.

2nd carrier in 5-6 yrs!
Hmm! Achcha! Thik Hai!

Minutes before posting:

 

[abingdonboy]

Ever heard of military hardware diplomacy.

Sabotage your own industry to boost a power in decline? Makes sense to geniuses in Delhi

 

[fire starter]

Sabotage your own industry to boost a power in decline? Makes sense to geniuses in Delhi

Well MEA babus are known for dumbfuckery since independence.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Easy to blame PSUs but as has been pointed out elsewhere it's more about a lack of commercial orders and commitments.


What other large navy orders in such a piecemeal fashion? 4 destroyers here, 3 there. Only ordering 1 carrier ensured that it was going to take a long time as economies of scale could not be utilised


History will 100% repeat itself with IAC-2, expect it to take a minimum of a decade to be built- the IN calls itself a builder's navy but it's nothing of the sort, they sabotage the industry at every chance. Why order the follow-on Talwars just because Russia asked? Should've given 3-4 unit orders for GSL for P-17A so the IN would have 3 yard making the 17As in parallel. The 17A is lightyears ahead of the 11356s which will be obsolete from the day they are commissioned.

It all depends on import dependencies, our ability to execute big projects is increasing every year in the last 7 years or so from BRO to shipyards to HAL/DRDO/ISRO and so on.....this kinda fits in the growth of economy and the abilities that come with it. We have atleast 2 decades more to catch up with big dudes

 

[abingdonboy]

It all depends on import dependencies, our ability to execute big projects is increasing every year in the last 7 years or so from BRO to shipyards to HAL/DRDO/ISRO and so on.....this kinda fits in the growth of economy and the abilities that come with it. We have atleast 2 decades more to catch up with big dudes

Not going to happen when you have import lobbies and traitors in uniform not missing any opportunity to buy foreign toys.


Why is the IN shopping for 111 NUHs when ALH MK.3 is an option? Why is IN shopping for 6 P75Is when MDL has just completed the P75s? Why is IN looking abroad for FSS when Indian yards are making their own aircraft carriers?


Economy only grows when you invest at home in scale, the Indian armed forces are doing all they can to throw away billions to foreign industries (MMRCA 2.0/MRFA, FICV, towed arty, rifles, ammunition etc etc)

 

[omaebakabaka]

Not going to happen when you have import lobbies and traitors in uniform not missing any opportunity to buy foreign toys.


Why is the IN shopping for 111 NUHs when ALH MK.3 is an option? Why is IN shopping for 6 P75Is when MDL has just completed the P75s? Why is IN looking abroad for FSS when Indian yards are making their own aircraft carriers?


Economy only grows when you invest at home in scale, the Indian armed forces are doing all they can to throw away billions to foreign industries (MMRCA 2.0/MRFA, FICV, towed arty, rifles, ammunition etc etc)

I don't completely buy into this theory that domestic alternatives are available in the first place and 2nd they are match to counter parts.....there is no magic here, only normalistic view of this is a slow increase in domestic share of the equipment and close observation of useful upgrades. Rest all is lot of marketing and getting carried away
Also on the construction timelines, China is more of an exception similar to USSR as their absolute control and capabilities of supply chain would give them some benefits along with massive economy....all other countries take long time to finish carriers...US is a bit better because they have the carrier culture....Russia takes 3 to 5 years for frigates but they did bring down the sub construction times once the optimization and other efficiencies trickle down from lead ships, same with our nuke subs

 

[abingdonboy]

I don't completely buy into this theory that domestic alternatives are available in the first place and 2nd they are match to counter parts.....there is no magic here, only normalistic view of this is a slow increase in domestic share of the equipment and close observation of useful upgrades. Rest all is lot of marketing and getting carried away

For everything listed above there is an Indian alternative that is at least within 85% of the requirement.

Most other nations will happily opt for domestic alternatives even if there are slightly better solutions abroad

India has not made the mindset change from being a net-importer, the armed forces look at foreign toys first before domestic solutions. Indians still think they are behind the curve and imports are the gold standard.

If you have projects like Arjun, ATAGS, ALH, LCH, LUH etc you don't try and undermine them and shop around for foreign alternatives but that's exactly what is happening.

 

[omaebakabaka]

For everything listed above there is an Indian alternative that is at least within 85% of the requirement.

Most other nations will happily opt for domestic alternatives even if there are slightly better solutions abroad

India has not made the mindset change from being a net-importer, the armed forces look at foreign toys first before domestic solutions. Indians still think they are behind the curve and imports are the gold standard.

If you have projects like Arjun, ATAGS, ALH, LCH, LUH etc you don't try and undermine them and shop around for foreign alternatives but that's exactly what is happening.

There is certainly lobby and there will be corruption at all times in "free" chaotic countries like India....however, I prefer army to hedge and would prefer to see gradual share increase vs going full blown based on minimal production lines and unproven upgrade cycles and what not....most critical systems in domestic are still imports from electronics to sensors to engines. To get some leverage, goi can;t just cut it down abruptly, its a gentle game politically speaking as relationships and leverages exist in give and take