Infrastructure and Energy Sector

Crazywithmath

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Ya'll Nibbiars Everyone is a expert on the Twitter.

Haldi, you are too polite on Twitter. Many of the armchair highway engineers you have politely engaged with won't be able to draw a fucking free body diagram.

Just look at the fucking audacity of this exfart;


Only online e-lynching can cure these arrogant pricks.
 

omaebakabaka

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In India Its the touristy places that are more littered and chaotic. I am talking Rural India away from Glam. Garbage Mgmt and Zoning in Tourist hotspots esp in Mountainous Touristy places is non existent. Thats get exacerbated due to high density living spaces. I am talking about Rural India in North (North West), SOuth and even west. Population density is not high, Garbage output per household is low (Cowdung is not considered Garbage)
I made the same comment a while back in some thread on how tribal villages look clean and structured and bright minus sewer part.... But it's very threatened and a lot of them are changing at light speed as money moves around them bringing in nonsensical unplanned construction to replace what they have. Plastic is everywhere, in north gutka packs and similar....what can people do? There is no trash collection in rural nor landfill management by districts nor civility to not litter

One thing I noticed is that Japanese rural still preserves look and feel more or less even if materials are new and so on and that's one way to harmonize in modern era. Just basic planning and care and thought.... Civilized people care for society and what's around them.
 

AnantS

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I made the same comment a while back in some thread on how tribal villages look clean and structured and bright minus sewer part.... But it's very threatened and a lot of them are changing at light speed as money moves around them bringing in nonsensical unplanned construction to replace what they have. Plastic is everywhere, in north gutka packs and similar....what can people do? There is no trash collection in rural nor landfill management by districts nor civility to not litter

One thing I noticed is that Japanese rural still preserves look and feel more or less even if materials are new and so on and that's one way to harmonize in modern era. Just basic planning and care and thought.... Civilized people care for society and what's around them.
Japanese are on another level Man. Thats whats needed. Gutka is not common in NW. In Places like Himachal Jammu Punjab and even Haryana , Gutka is not eaten by natives - its kinda looked upon. Gutka brand ambassadors from UP Bihar Gujarat Maharshtra etc mark their presence in rest of country.
 

AnantS

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I made the same comment a while back in some thread on how tribal villages look clean and structured and bright minus sewer part.... But it's very threatened and a lot of them are changing at light speed as money moves around them bringing in nonsensical unplanned construction to replace what they have. Plastic is everywhere, in north gutka packs and similar....what can people do? There is no trash collection in rural nor landfill management by districts nor civility to not litter

One thing I noticed is that Japanese rural still preserves look and feel more or less even if materials are new and so on and that's one way to harmonize in modern era. Just basic planning and care and thought.... Civilized people care for society and what's around them.
umm its not civility but rural folks have been used to old lifestyle, where everything thrown to dumping place would be consumed by wildlife and stray. plastic in their life is now a new entrant in their lives where old practices fail. For that they would need city like garbage mgmt. Thats only possible if rural income grows more
 

nongaddarliberal

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India needs to stick with fossil fuels or go nuclear. I've always been skeptical of these maintenance intensive but low energy solar and wind solutions. No country of any decent size has managed to go the green way through "renewables". Combined with lithium mining for batteries, these end up causing more environmental harm than good.

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omaebakabaka

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umm its not civility but rural folks have been used to old lifestyle, where everything thrown to dumping place would be consumed by wildlife and stray. plastic in their life is now a new entrant in their lives where old practices fail. For that they would need city like garbage mgmt. Thats only possible if rural income grows more
Well, rural isn't any type of paradise and there is plenty of garbage culture there too. On an avg Indian subcontinent and converted countries are most dirty outside africa. Very hard to deny this at a national level. I am from western state btw
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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We are not there yet especially when you add quality, maintenance and structure of governing it not to mention the connecting roads. Certainly making progress, tolls and maintenance is atrocious in our country
Yes I go to the US a lot. The road network in India despite all the progress is still pretty inferior in quality, drive experience, safety, wide connectivity, exit/entry from/to the highway etc. American highway and road network is amazing in general. They have top quality roads even in sparse populated areas. 90% of American roads are of international standard with proper lane markings , intersections down to a neighborhood level. That kind of road traffic engineering down to a small street in even a run down neighborhood is pretty impressive to achieve. And the US has thousands of towns with roads well maintained in all of them and that too uniformly lane marked across the entire country. Even the home addresses are very systematic. Then they have district roads which are better quality than our expressways. infrastructure in the US except passenger railways is superb. I don’t know about China. i dont think they are anywhere close to what Amreeka has achieved in the road sector, down to a small village. I was in a village of just 1000 people and even there road intersections had proper traffic lights, clear street signs, well marked turn lanes, stop signs, and exit/entry to highways all with proper grade separated ramps. They have invested massively in infrastructure over the years.
 

omaebakabaka

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Yes I go to the US a lot. The road network in India despite all the progress is still pretty inferior in quality, drive experience, safety, wide connectivity, exit/entry from/to the highway etc. American highway and road network is amazing in general. They have top quality roads even in sparse populated areas. 90% of American roads are of international standard with proper lane markings , intersections down to a neighborhood level. That kind of road traffic engineering down to a small street in even a run down neighborhood is pretty impressive to achieve. And the US has thousands of towns with roads well maintained in all of them and that too uniformly lane marked across the entire country. Even the home addresses are very systematic. Then they have district roads which are better quality than our expressways. infrastructure in the US except passenger railways is superb. I don’t know about China. i dont think they are anywhere close to what Amreeka has achieved in the road sector, down to a small village. I was in a village of just 1000 people and even there road intersections had proper traffic lights, clear street signs, well marked turn lanes, stop signs, and exit/entry to highways all with proper grade separated ramps. They have invested massively in infrastructure over the years.
Civic sense has a chance when you have a culture you can identify, in USA and west it was there in general, so most things still have some order but they have chaos in future as they deviate from that homogenous society into a land of chootiyas. In India, our order was broken down and now oppsition outside bjp is just antiBharat and so are the people for most part.....actually I think rural people both educated and uneducated are some of the worst offenders in littering and other things. Granted they don't have trash collection or landfille but even when they go to other places they litter. Just trash parents raising more trash....

China is 1000 times better than India and in general east of India past Myanmar is decently clean. China has well marked roads in upto tier 3 cities as far as Lhasa but villages do have litter and other issues but not to our degree. Korea also has some litter problem but not to our degree....
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Civic sense has a chance when you have a culture you can identify, in USA and west it was there in general, so most things still have some order but they have chaos in future as they deviate from that homogenous society into a land of chootiyas. In India, our order was broken down and now oppsition outside bjp is just antiBharat and so are the people for most part.....actually I think rural people both educated and uneducated are some of the worst offenders in littering and other things. Granted they don't have trash collection or landfille but even when they go to other places they litter. Just trash parents raising more trash....

China is 1000 times better than India and in general east of India past Myanmar is decently clean. China has well marked roads in upto tier 3 cities as far as Lhasa but villages do have litter and other issues but not to our degree. Korea also has some litter problem but not to our degree....
This is all started with the claims that India has the 2nd largest paved road network in the world. To me that sounded a fake claim as US and China have to be the first and second just because of the massive investments these two countries have made across their entire territories including all island territories. The US has world class roads even in Puerto Rico (San Juan, Puerto Rico's capital, has better roads than Delhi) which is a US territory and not a state even. It takes crazy amounts of capital and maintenance investments to get to that level of road excellence. Note south eastern US has pretty much the same climactic conditions as India - it rains heavily. Yet the urban roads and highways are way better than our roads/highways. Need to figure out more ways of achieving excellence in our road network, including making them safe and fit for high quality driving. Hopefully another decade of massive road and urban infrastructure investments will get us there. First goal is to make all our cities down to tier 3 cities orderly, clean, high quality of living, with excellent air, road and rail connectivity. A program like BharatMaala is needed for urban infrastructure development to massively overhaul our cities to world class standards.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Japanese are on another level Man. Thats whats needed. Gutka is not common in NW. In Places like Himachal Jammu Punjab and even Haryana , Gutka is not eaten by natives - its kinda looked upon. Gutka brand ambassadors from UP Bihar Gujarat Maharshtra etc mark their presence in rest of country.
I heard that gutka-paan woh kaathe hein, jinke pait mein chooha daudtha hai ya naashe ke bina labor kaam nahi ho patha. It is to hide hunger - not sure how true it is.
 

thebakofbakchod

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This is all started with the claims that India has the 2nd largest paved road network in the world. To me that sounded a fake claim as US and China have to be the first and second just because of the massive investments these two countries have made across their entire territories including all island territories. The US has world class roads even in Puerto Rico (San Juan, Puerto Rico's capital, has better roads than Delhi) which is a US territory and not a state even. It takes crazy amounts of capital and maintenance investments to get to that level of road excellence. Note south eastern US has pretty much the same climactic conditions as India - it rains heavily. Yet the urban roads and highways are way better than our roads/highways. Need to figure out more ways of achieving excellence in our road network, including making them safe and fit for high quality driving. Hopefully another decade of massive road and urban infrastructure investments will get us there. First goal is to make all our cities down to tier 3 cities orderly, clean, high quality of living, with excellent air, road and rail connectivity. A program like BharatMaala is needed for urban infrastructure development to massively overhaul our cities to world class standards.
The claim is 100% bullshit and does not pass any basic common sense test. What india classifies as a road is things that do not exist in both USA and China. In both country, even village and rural roads are properly built to 2 lane + paved shoulders with proper lane markings. In India majority of rural roads are just a layer of asphalt. Granted previously it was mud road so it is still a big improvement, but the government is making a big mistake not properly building these rural roads to high standards from the beginning, especially with vehicle sales skyrocketing.



Also China is easily 100 years ahead in rural development, and have more or less caught up with euro countries (especially eastern europoors) and US. You can all this video cherrypicked, but can you even create a 7h long drive video in any part of India that looks like this? Notice how clean and smooth the road is + consistent lane markings throughout the entire video. There is also little to no mud/sand/dust on footpaths as they have been concretized. There is very little litter/rubbish on the roadsides and streets. there seem to be hundreds of dustbins (something completely absent in India). The crazy part is maybe 15 years ago or in the 2000s, these areas would have been undistinguishable from rural India today.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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The claim is 100% bullshit and does not pass any basic common sense test. What india classifies as a road is things that do not exist in both USA and China. In both country, even village and rural roads are properly built to 2 lane + paved shoulders with proper lane markings. In India majority of rural roads are just a layer of asphalt. Granted previously it was mud road so it is still a big improvement, but the government is making a big mistake not properly building these rural roads to high standards from the beginning, especially with vehicle sales skyrocketing.



Also China is easily 100 years ahead in rural development, and have more or less caught up with euro countries (especially eastern europoors) and US. You can all this video cherrypicked, but can you even create a 7h long drive video in any part of India that looks like this? Notice how clean and smooth the road is + consistent lane markings throughout the entire video. There is also little to no mud/sand/dust on footpaths as they have been concretized. There is very little litter/rubbish on the roadsides and streets. there seem to be hundreds of dustbins (something completely absent in India). The crazy part is maybe 15 years ago or in the 2000s, these areas would have been undistinguishable from rural India today.
True. There is no option but to modernize and urbanize villagers. Like I said simply talking won't do. You need a bharatmala type program with a hundred billion dollars initial budget to bring our 7000 odd towns/cities to world class standards first. The question is when we will start doing this? Maybe after the economy reaches $5-6 trillion. I don't see any dedicated budgets and programs for tackling urbanization and improving living standards of villagers through a massive centrally funded and municipal bonds program just like NHAI is doing for roads until 2030. The reason I don't see it is because it will take 3 or 4 years just to 100% saturate programs like rural roads mission, jal jeevan mission, a decent mileage of expressways, railway modernization, port modernization, 100% electricity and gas connections, rural health missions, digital missions etc. Some parts of select cities and towns will get modernized to a very good standard (due to Amrut and smart city missions but these have low budgets and happens only in select areas) but this won't be methodical and extensive across India like what NHAI is doing/will do in roads. We simply do not have the budget for it.
You have to immediately setup a pan India program like urban maala mission for 10+ years at least with $100 billion dollar investment each year. All 7000 odd towns and cities must have proper governance structure and sophisticated administration that provides excellent services to its residents and develops the towns according to the wishes of the local citizens. Corruption must be totally eliminated in these 7000+ towns first and then everywhere else across India. In any case, the government must come up with a solid, decade long program immediately to urbanize India and not hide under small missions like Smart City or Amrut.
 

thebakofbakchod

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Someone tell mudiji that without completely rewriting urban governance from scratch and bringing accountability to the system, our cities will remain 4th world even in 2050. City governments should have only 4 main goals in mind -> building proper consistent roads, building proper consistent footpaths with 0 encroachments, building new 10km2 layouts/extensions every year to allow planned townships to develop, building robust waste management system and cleanliness regime to get rid of grime, dust and rubbish from our roads
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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View attachment 248426+

View attachment 248428

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Someone tell mudiji that without completely rewriting urban governance from scratch and bringing accountability to the system, our cities will remain 4th world even in 2050. City governments should have only 4 main goals in mind -> building proper consistent roads, building proper consistent footpaths with 0 encroachments, building new 10km2 layouts/extensions every year to allow planned townships to develop, building robust waste management system and cleanliness regime to get rid of grime, dust and rubbish from our roads
For the first time, I have seen any party spell out details of urban management. The need to administer cities in a very modern way with smart people that can do world class urban planning, redevelopment of dilapidated streets, buildings; long term infrastructure investments etc is something that for the very first time since independence we are actually seeing in a party’s manifesto. Good start but there are moronic state parties and commies with low IQ leaders that will resist or slow down these reforms. Modiji has to slap them with an iron hand, else nothing worthwhile will change at the city/town levels.
 

Indx TechStyle

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True. There is no option but to modernize and urbanize villagers. Like I said simply talking won't do. You need a bharatmala type program with a hundred billion dollars initial budget to bring our 7000 odd towns/cities to world class standards first. The question is when we will start doing this? Maybe after the economy reaches $5-6 trillion. I don't see any dedicated budgets and programs for tackling urbanization and improving living standards of villagers through a massive centrally funded and municipal bonds program just like NHAI is doing for roads until 2030. The reason I don't see it is because it will take 3 or 4 years just to 100% saturate programs like rural roads mission, jal jeevan mission, a decent mileage of expressways, railway modernization, port modernization, 100% electricity and gas connections, rural health missions, digital missions etc. Some parts of select cities and towns will get modernized to a very good standard (due to Amrut and smart city missions but these have low budgets and happens only in select areas) but this won't be methodical and extensive across India like what NHAI is doing/will do in roads. We simply do not have the budget for it.
You have to immediately setup a pan India program like urban maala mission for 10+ years at least with $100 billion dollar investment each year. All 7000 odd towns and cities must have proper governance structure and sophisticated administration that provides excellent services to its residents and develops the towns according to the wishes of the local citizens. Corruption must be totally eliminated in these 7000+ towns first and then everywhere else across India. In any case, the government must come up with a solid, decade long program immediately to urbanize India and not hide under small missions like Smart City or Amrut.
View attachment 248426+

View attachment 248428

View attachment 248429

View attachment 248430

Someone tell mudiji that without completely rewriting urban governance from scratch and bringing accountability to the system, our cities will remain 4th world even in 2050. City governments should have only 4 main goals in mind -> building proper consistent roads, building proper consistent footpaths with 0 encroachments, building new 10km2 layouts/extensions every year to allow planned townships to develop, building robust waste management system and cleanliness regime to get rid of grime, dust and rubbish from our roads
Before 2000s, Indian cities were like those of Sub Sahara Africa. It's been just 2 decades since our municipalities.

The quality of roads of we have right now suits our needs just fine for the time being. You can't expect a $2500-3000 per capita economy in Asia to have European style infrastructure (and it will be a waste of money even if done).

Our only focus must be modernization railway network, more metros and more expressways & highways. Aesthetics can come when our GDP per capita reaches near world average and we have disposable money to make concrete footpath/flat roads kind of things. Requesting this at this moment will divest other essential sectors.
 

omaebakabaka

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I heard that gutka-paan woh kaathe hein, jinke pait mein chooha daudtha hai ya naashe ke bina labor kaam nahi ho patha. It is to hide hunger - not sure how true it is.
Total bs, even bramhans that perform shraddh karma or sitting in inner sanctum of kashi vishwanath temple is chewing tobbacco....kashi is exception if you know the legends behind it as anything goes there but prayag raj and pretty much every place in UP, Bihar and to a lesser extent MP. Its just something they chew...you are from Lucknow, you should know better unless you don't really live there anymore
 

omaebakabaka

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The quality of roads of we have right now suits our needs just fine for the time being
This I agree to a certain extent, can't go from 0 to 100 in most things instantaneously, just that character of rural is being lost forever. Rural does not look good in most places as they lost that blend in surroundings feel now replaced by fugly constructions. Not to mention quarrying, deforestation, lakes being plotted, sand mafia doing the rest.
 

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