India's Interest in Lockheed F-35 Fighter

[rock127]

Pentagon Awaits India’s Interest in Lockheed F-35 Fighter - Businessweek

Nov. 1 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Defense Department expressed eagerness to work more closely with India, including sharing information on its top weapons program, Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

"Should India indicate interest in the JSF, the United States would be prepared to provide information on the JSF and its requirements," including on security and infrastructure, the Defense Department said today in a congressionally mandated report on U.S.-India security cooperation.

More joint work on science and technology "may lead to co- development opportunities with India as a partner," the Defense Department said in the report.

The nine-page review of defense ties with India was prepared in response to a legislative provision sponsored earlier this year by Senate Armed Services Committee members Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, and John Cornyn, a Texas Republican. Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed Martin builds the F-35 in Texas. United Technologies Corp. makes the plane's engines in Connecticut.

"Our two governments must be proactive in finding new ways to take on emerging security challenges together," Lieberman said today in an e-mail, citing cybersecurity and counterterrorism.

Nuclear Technology

The report reflects the desire by successive U.S. administrations to convince India to increase security cooperation and buy American equipment as it expands and modernizes its military. The push included a years-long fight for congressional approval in 2008 of an agreement intended to clear the way for U.S. manufacturers such as General Electric Co. to sell India nuclear-energy technology.

The U.S. expected the nuclear-energy agreement to help increase a range of technology sales to India, especially in the defense sector.

The Pentagon report alludes to disappointing results. It cites the "setback" in April, when Lockheed's F-16 jet fighter and Boeing Co.'s F/A-18 Super Hornet were eliminated from the $11 billion Indian competition to replace the subcontinent's aging fleet of 1970s-era MiG-21s.

Aircraft on the shortlist were Dassault Aviation SA's Rafale and the Eurofighter made by BAE Systems Plc, Finmeccanica SpA and European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co.

Weapons Cooperation

Lockheed Martin said in June it may offer the F-35 stealth fighter to India. The Cornyn-Lieberman requirement for the security cooperation report helped open an avenue to do that, Lockheed Senior Vice President Patrick Dewar said in a June interview at the Paris Air Show.

India has urged the U.S. to give it more access to technology so that the two countries can develop weapons together. The Pentagon acknowledged that goal in the report.

"The United States wants to develop deeper defense industrial cooperation with India, including a range of cooperative research and development," they wrote in the assessment. "The United States is committed to providing India with top-of-the-line technology."

The Cornyn-Lieberman provision had called for the Pentagon to assess the potential for jointly developing equipment such as a replacement for the U.S. Air Force T-38 trainer jet. Today's report didn't specifically address that system.

Efforts for the next five years will place "particular emphasis on maritime security and counterterrorism activities and expanding defense trade and armaments cooperation," the Pentagon reported.

The requirement is $$$$$$ and stupidity from Indian Politicians.

India should concentrate on Rafale and developing its own capabilities.

 

[ice berg]

While the decision has not yet been made by Congress due to lack of a requirement from the Indian side apart from the RFI (which is not enough to make such a decision), Pentagon did say in their report the military is willing to allow F-35 export to India, which is saying a lot.

With PAKFA and AMCA, there is no place for F-35 in India atm.

 

[ersakthivel]

Well the wild card here is avionics and sensor,asea capabilities of F-35 in export version.
Can AMCA,PAKFA or J-20 hope to match it in this sphere?
It would be a huge force multiplier if it's avionics and sensor fusion is put to use in a team of PAKFAs and AMCAs and all other 4th gen fighters.
So a small number of F-35 will do no harm in bringing up the entire avionics capability of the fleet in vital airdefence roles.

before dismissing it as worthless wild card this angle should be studied in depth.

Because HAl is going to do avionics for PAKFA.Will it match the F-35 standards?

Not really is my opinion.

Is there a way we can use the avionics of F-35 with the kinematic power of PAKFA in tandem?

Also it is carrier capable, a definite point to be considered for a naval fleet of 3 prospective aircraft careers.

 

[average american]

So called PAK-FA project is desperate Russian attempt to gain some place on future World's fighter market dominated by Western stealth designs (upper price-tag segment) and low-cost Chinese fighters. As you probably know China has begun to push Russia out from Third World's arms markets. Many Chinese designs are comparable with their Russian counterparts yet being cheaper. That obviously means Russia won't be able to sell the same amount of Flankers and Fulcrums as before. Thus the only logical move for Russians is to push forward next-generation fighter project. However this is very tricky task in present Russian situation because:

- in overall Soviet aircraft industry was always behind the West

- during last twenty years Russian aviation industry was sharply degraded

- now Russia cannot develop even simple useful UAV so has to buy them in Israel

- Russia never shown signs of possessing true stealth technology while US have forty years long experience in this area and spent about 250 billion dollars in total on it developing several generations of stealth designs

Taken all above into account it is virtually impossible that Russia could create indigenous 5th generation stealth fighter. This is not that league anymore - no money, no high-tech found out there. That is why Russia after almost ten years of development unveiled some empty test-bed airframe (lack of new engines, radar(s), IRST, avionic & ECM systems, stealth coating, armament - all of them will have to be develop and integrate in the future, some are based on old stuff) and made propaganda show: "We catch up Americans, we have our own F-22!". In reality PAK-FA was declassified to gain new serious foreign investors. You should remember Russians had already tried to find such a foreign partner before PAK-FA first presentation: Brazil and Venezuela come to mind. Yet they managed to attract only India in joint FGFA project being in short two-sit PAK-FA version. Both sides agreed on such project's scheme: financing on fifty-fifty base, each side develops those parts of fighter design it mastered better so far, finally full technology and production transfer to India are to take place.

So I am sure PAK-FA is in fact Russian part of FGFA project and if India pulled out of this project (buying F-35 instead) Russia alone would not be able to finish it. Anyway two so backward in aviation high-tech stuff partners cannot design fighter comparable with F-22 or even F-35. I suppose Indian money and present Russian technology level combined should create in ten to fifteen years some...larger Eurocanard at best.

 

[average american]

Something else you might want to think about all this it the problem is fighters are part of a system and as such comparing just 2 fighters is rather pointless.


An F-35 or F-22 or F-15 flyings as a part of a whole combat system. AWACS, JSTARS, Unmanned vehicles. All these work together to accomplish the mission. So for any comparison you would need to compare the system.

It would not matter if by miracle PAK-FA was a better plane or was faster or slower or stealthier or anything then a F-35/F-22/F-15. If the other party has a better system as a whole with matching support, training, tactics ect they will still beat you. Look at the first gulf war. On paper Iraq would be a hard opponent. It's airforce was relatively modern, good fighters, experienced pilots even AWACS. Yet they were completely outclassed and overwhelmed. This wasn't just superiority of the fighters but of the system as a whole. Tactics, Information superiority ect all that worked together to the point where the Iraqi's where just swept away.

 

[mikhail]

So called PAK-FA project is desperate Russian attempt to gain some place on future World's fighter market dominated by Western stealth designs (upper price-tag segment) and low-cost Chinese fighters. As you probably know China has begun to push Russia out from Third World's arms markets. Many Chinese designs are comparable with their Russian counterparts yet being cheaper. That obviously means Russia won't be able to sell the same amount of Flankers and Fulcrums as before. Thus the only logical move for Russians is to push forward next-generation fighter project. However this is very tricky task in present Russian situation because:

- in overall Soviet aircraft industry was always behind the West

- during last twenty years Russian aviation industry was sharply degraded

- now Russia cannot develop even simple useful UAV so has to buy them in Israel

- Russia never shown signs of possessing true stealth technology while US have forty years long experience in this area and spent about 250 billion dollars in total on it developing several generations of stealth designs

Taken all above into account it is virtually impossible that Russia could create indigenous 5th generation stealth fighter. This is not that league anymore - no money, no high-tech found out there. That is why Russia after almost ten years of development unveiled some empty test-bed airframe (lack of new engines, radar(s), IRST, avionic & ECM systems, stealth coating, armament - all of them will have to be develop and integrate in the future, some are based on old stuff) and made propaganda show: "We catch up Americans, we have our own F-22!". In reality PAK-FA was declassified to gain new serious foreign investors. You should remember Russians had already tried to find such a foreign partner before PAK-FA first presentation: Brazil and Venezuela come to mind. Yet they managed to attract only India in joint FGFA project being in short two-sit PAK-FA version. Both sides agreed on such project's scheme: financing on fifty-fifty base, each side develops those parts of fighter design it mastered better so far, finally full technology and production transfer to India are to take place.

So I am sure PAK-FA is in fact Russian part of FGFA project and if India pulled out of this project (buying F-35 instead) Russia alone would not be able to finish it. Anyway two so backward in aviation high-tech stuff partners cannot design fighter comparable with F-22 or even F-35. I suppose Indian money and present Russian technology level combined should create in ten to fifteen years some...larger Eurocanard at best.

yeah we are two most technological backwars in everything,happy now mate!come on we are on the same side in the current world scenerio.whenever i see you in this defence forum you are busy bashing us Indians.i seriously don't know what's your fu**ing problem with us!

 

[average american]

yeah we are two most technological backwars in everything,happy now mate!come on we are on the same side in the current world scenerio.whenever i see you in this defence forum you are busy bashing us Indians.i seriously don't know what's your fu**ing problem with us!

I dont have a problem with Indians, just with your grasp on reality. If any thing I said above is not true point it out, if it is true you have a lot bigger problems then me. I would like to see Indian as a powerful country, economically as well as military but some one has to point out what life is like in the real world.

 

[p2prada]

With PAKFA and AMCA, there is no place for F-35 in India atm.

A place for F-35 does not exist in the IAF. That chance was gone when LM did not participate with the F-35 in the tender and the subsequent choice of PAKFA program which was deemed superior in many aspects.

Currently LM has a chance to participate in IN's tender for 80 aircraft. If they ask us to buy F-35s through FMS then LM will have no chance at all. If they participate in the tender, it is yet to be soon how well they can meet the ToT and Industrial clauses. I am pretty sure the clauses will be less stringent in both cases because IN operates in a less diverse environment as compared to IAF. IMHO Rafale has the advantage in every aspect.

IN wants AMCA and is planned, but that option will be exercised far into the future, minimum 15 years away.

FGFA, yes it is possible. But it depends on how soon they plan on releasing the RFP (probably after IAF contract is signed) and the time IAC-2s construction will take. However, as of today it is not known whether IN is even interested in a FGFA derivative let alone the N-PAKFA which the Russians are yet to decide on. According to what is known today, you can count both these jets out of any new N-MRCA deal unless there is a positive response from Sukhoi or HAL.

No India jet fighter deal before end March: minister | Reuters

One of the sources said France's Rafale jet was the likely winner, adding that the defense ministry was now considering buying another 80 or so jets and could invite bidders excluded from the current process to take part.

Super Hornet, Rafale and F-35 are most probably the only possible competitors for the IN's MRCA deal if you count out FGFA. IAF's MRCA deal has taken 5 years since RFP was released, let's assume the same for the Navy. If the RFP is released next year, you can say a contract will be signed at the most optimistic date of 2018. With 3 years for delivery to start would mean 2021. Rafale will be in production in India, if not in France. SH, maybe not but you never know what with their so called International Roadmap etc. F-35, production may free up enough to meet IN's contract. 2021 is probably a year or two before IAC-2 is ready.

Personally I would prefer the competition is between Rafale and F-35.

 

[badguy2000]

So called PAK-FA project is desperate Russian attempt to gain some place on future World's fighter market dominated by Western stealth designs (upper price-tag segment) and low-cost Chinese fighters. As you probably know China has begun to push Russia out from Third World's arms markets. Many Chinese designs are comparable with their Russian counterparts yet being cheaper. That obviously means Russia won't be able to sell the same amount of Flankers and Fulcrums as before. Thus the only logical move for Russians is to push forward next-generation fighter project. However this is very tricky task in present Russian situation because:

- in overall Soviet aircraft industry was always behind the West

- during last twenty years Russian aviation industry was sharply degraded

- now Russia cannot develop even simple useful UAV so has to buy them in Israel

- Russia never shown signs of possessing true stealth technology while US have forty years long experience in this area and spent about 250 billion dollars in total on it developing several generations of stealth designs

Taken all above into account it is virtually impossible that Russia could create indigenous 5th generation stealth fighter. This is not that league anymore - no money, no high-tech found out there. That is why Russia after almost ten years of development unveiled some empty test-bed airframe (lack of new engines, radar(s), IRST, avionic & ECM systems, stealth coating, armament - all of them will have to be develop and integrate in the future, some are based on old stuff) and made propaganda show: "We catch up Americans, we have our own F-22!". In reality PAK-FA was declassified to gain new serious foreign investors. You should remember Russians had already tried to find such a foreign partner before PAK-FA first presentation: Brazil and Venezuela come to mind. Yet they managed to attract only India in joint FGFA project being in short two-sit PAK-FA version. Both sides agreed on such project's scheme: financing on fifty-fifty base, each side develops those parts of fighter design it mastered better so far, finally full technology and production transfer to India are to take place.

So I am sure PAK-FA is in fact Russian part of FGFA project and if India pulled out of this project (buying F-35 instead) Russia alone would not be able to finish it. Anyway two so backward in aviation high-tech stuff partners cannot design fighter comparable with F-22 or even F-35. I suppose Indian money and present Russian technology level combined should create in ten to fifteen years some...larger Eurocanard at best.

agree. Russia's aircraft industry is in big troubles, because its industry potential and industry chains have be declining and disintegrated since 1991....

 

[mikhail]

agree. Russia's aircraft industry is in big troubles, because its industry potential and industry chains have be declining and disintegrated since 1991....

first look at your own aircraft industry before commenting on the Russians!after Americans,Russians are the next big name in the aviation industry(with due respect to France).they have made some fantastice fighters(Mig-17,Mig-19,Mig-21,Mig-23,Mig-25,Mig-27,Mig-29,Mig-31,Su-7,Su-11,Su-15,Su24,Su-25,Su-27,Su-30,Su-35 etc) for decades and if anyone has the capability of building a fifth generation stealth aircraft after U.S.A. it's only the Russians.now if we talk about china's achievement then the reality is they are nowhere in the top 5 aircraft manufacturer's countries.you guys can only copy Russian designs like you did with Mig-21 and Su-27.heck you can't make a proper engine after spending three decades in manufacturing aircrafts(now don't get started over your uber cool WS-10 as we all know it's secret).so please look at your own country before commenting on the Russians

 

[average american]

first look at your own aircraft industry before commenting on the Russians!after Americans,Russians are the next big name in the aviation industry(with due respect to France).they have made some fantastice fighters(Mig-17,Mig-19,Mig-21,Mig-23,Mig-25,Mig-27,Mig-29,Mig-31,Su-7,Su-11,Su-15,Su24,Su-25,Su-27,Su-30,Su-35 etc) for decades and if anyone has the capability of building a fifth generation stealth aircraft after U.S.A. it's only the Russians.now if we talk about china's achievement then the reality is they are nowhere in the top 5 aircraft manufacturer's countries.you guys can only copy Russian designs like you did with Mig-21 and Su-27.heck you can't make a proper engine after spending three decades in manufacturing aircrafts(now don't get started over your uber cool WS-10 as we all know it's secret).so please look at your own country before commenting on the Russians

When you look at the kill ratio of Russian aircraft how can you reach the conclusion they make fantastic fighters.

Kill Ratios
Irans F-14s ___ 123:13
USN F-14As ____ 4:0

IAF F-15s _____ 63:0
SAAF F-15s ____ 4:0 All against Iranian aircraft -2 F-4E & 2 F.1EQ
USAFs F-15s ___ 36:0

EPA F-16s _____ 2:3 (Greek AF victories over Turkish AF)
IAFs F-16s ____ 52:0 (NOTE#1)
NAF F-16A _____ 1:0 (NOTE#2)
PakAF F-16s ___ 11:0 (NOTE#3)
THK F-16s _____ 3:2 (Turkish AF victories over Greek AF)
USAFs F-16s ___ 3:0 (NOTE#4)

USN F/A-18s ___ 2:0 (Against two Iraqi MiG.-21's)
In the real world the Mig 29 has a kill ratio 10 to 28 and the F16 about a 100 to 5.
MiG.-29 _______ 10:28
Su-27 _________ (NOTE#5)


NOTEs;
1) Syria list four unconfirmed kills on IAF F-16s
2) Dutch AF's F-16A/MLU killed 1 Serbian MiG.-29
3) Indian AF makes no confirmed kill but, 8 unconfirmed kills claimed by Indian AF against Pakistani AF
4) 1 MiG.25, 2 Galebs all with Slammer Missiles
5) USAF & IAF have 9:0 kill ratio against MiG.-29's
6) Itemized totals;
3 Kills Confirmed
4 kills Unconfirmed
Victims ___ 1 L-39 Albatross and 6 MiG.-29's
No Su-27's shot down. All incidents except one (the kill of the L-39 by the RuAF) occurred in the Erethian / Ethioppian War.
The West has gained access to the Su-27 through mainly the states of the former CIS. Belarus, Moldova and, the Ukraine. I don't know how helpful Russia has been.

A pretty good place for information on aerial kills is -http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/index.shtml
On the left side of the page kills are listed by theater of operations.

Modern Air-to-Air & Air-to-Ground kill record thread





U.S. F-15 Eagle Kill Records:

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi Mig-21's
1 Iraqi ll-76
2 Iraqi SU-25 Frogfoots
3 Iarqi SU-7/17
1 Iraqi MI-24 Hind
2 Iraqi SU-22 Fitters
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums
1 Afghan MI-24 Hind (F-15E)
2 U.S. UH-60 Blackhawks (fratricide)

Israeli F-15 kill records:

80-92 Mig-21 Fishbeds
several MIG-25 Foxbats

Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 kill records:

2 Iranian F-4E Phantoms
2 Iraqi F-1 Mirages
1 Iraqi Mig-25

Japanese F-15 kill record:

1 Japanese F-15J (accidental shooting by another Japanese F-15J)

U.S. F/A-18C Hornet kill record:

2 Mig-21 Fishbeds

U.S. F-14 Tomcat kill records:

2 Libyan SU-22 Fitters
2 Libyan Mig-23 Floggers
1 Iraqi MI-8 Hip

Iranian F-14 Tomcat kill record:

?????

U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon kill records:

1 Iraqi Mig-29 or Mig-23
1 Serbian Mig-29
4 Serbian Soko G-4 Super Galebs
1 Iraqi Mig-25 (first AMRAAM kill)

Israel F-16 kill records:

2 Syrian MI-8 Hips
44 Syrian Migs (mostly Floggers)

Dutch F-16 kill record:

1 Serbian Mig-29

PAF F-16 kill records:

2 Russian SU-22 Fitters
8 Afghan Aircrafts
1 PAF F-16 (fratricide)


U.S. A-10 Warthog kill record (tanks and aircrafts):

2 Iraqi Mi-8 Hips
850 + Iraqi T-72 MBTs, T-62 MBTs, & T-55 MBTs
300 Iraqi APCs

U.K AV-8A Sea Harrier kills in the Falkland War:

1 C-130 Hercules
1 Mirage III
9 Mirage V's
1 Canberra
1 Pucara
6 A-4 Skyhawks



Iraqi MIG-25PD kill record:

1 U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet

Ethiopian SU-27 kill record:

4 Eritrean MiG-29s

Eritrean MiG-29 kill record:

1 Ethiopian Mig-21

Russian MIG-29 Fulcrum kill record:

1 Afghan SU-22 Fitter

Iraqi Mig-21 kill record:

1 Iranian F-14 Tomcat
Other Iranian/Kuwait aircrafts?

Indian Mig-21 kill record:

4 PAF F-104 Starfighters

So based on what to you say Russian make great planes, looks, etc.

 

[mikhail]

When you look at the kill ratio of Russian aircraft how can you reach the conclusion they make fantastic fighters.

Kill Ratios
Irans F-14s ___ 123:13
USN F-14As ____ 4:0

IAF F-15s _____ 63:0
SAAF F-15s ____ 4:0 All against Iranian aircraft -2 F-4E & 2 F.1EQ
USAFs F-15s ___ 36:0

EPA F-16s _____ 2:3 (Greek AF victories over Turkish AF)
IAFs F-16s ____ 52:0 (NOTE#1)
NAF F-16A _____ 1:0 (NOTE#2)
PakAF F-16s ___ 11:0 (NOTE#3)
THK F-16s _____ 3:2 (Turkish AF victories over Greek AF)
USAFs F-16s ___ 3:0 (NOTE#4)

USN F/A-18s ___ 2:0 (Against two Iraqi MiG.-21's)
In the real world the Mig 29 has a kill ratio 10 to 28 and the F16 about a 100 to 5.
MiG.-29 _______ 10:28
Su-27 _________ (NOTE#5)


NOTEs;
1) Syria list four unconfirmed kills on IAF F-16s
2) Dutch AF's F-16A/MLU killed 1 Serbian MiG.-29
3) Indian AF makes no confirmed kill but, 8 unconfirmed kills claimed by Indian AF against Pakistani AF
4) 1 MiG.25, 2 Galebs all with Slammer Missiles
5) USAF & IAF have 9:0 kill ratio against MiG.-29's
6) Itemized totals;
3 Kills Confirmed
4 kills Unconfirmed
Victims ___ 1 L-39 Albatross and 6 MiG.-29's
No Su-27's shot down. All incidents except one (the kill of the L-39 by the RuAF) occurred in the Erethian / Ethioppian War.
The West has gained access to the Su-27 through mainly the states of the former CIS. Belarus, Moldova and, the Ukraine. I don't know how helpful Russia has been.

A pretty good place for information on aerial kills is -http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/index.shtml
On the left side of the page kills are listed by theater of operations.

Modern Air-to-Air & Air-to-Ground kill record thread





U.S. F-15 Eagle Kill Records:

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi Mig-21's
1 Iraqi ll-76
2 Iraqi SU-25 Frogfoots
3 Iarqi SU-7/17
1 Iraqi MI-24 Hind
2 Iraqi SU-22 Fitters
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums
1 Afghan MI-24 Hind (F-15E)
2 U.S. UH-60 Blackhawks (fratricide)

Israeli F-15 kill records:

80-92 Mig-21 Fishbeds
several MIG-25 Foxbats

Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 kill records:

2 Iranian F-4E Phantoms
2 Iraqi F-1 Mirages
1 Iraqi Mig-25

Japanese F-15 kill record:

1 Japanese F-15J (accidental shooting by another Japanese F-15J)

U.S. F/A-18C Hornet kill record:

2 Mig-21 Fishbeds

U.S. F-14 Tomcat kill records:

2 Libyan SU-22 Fitters
2 Libyan Mig-23 Floggers
1 Iraqi MI-8 Hip

Iranian F-14 Tomcat kill record:

?????

U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon kill records:

1 Iraqi Mig-29 or Mig-23
1 Serbian Mig-29
4 Serbian Soko G-4 Super Galebs
1 Iraqi Mig-25 (first AMRAAM kill)

Israel F-16 kill records:

2 Syrian MI-8 Hips
44 Syrian Migs (mostly Floggers)

Dutch F-16 kill record:

1 Serbian Mig-29

PAF F-16 kill records:

2 Russian SU-22 Fitters
8 Afghan Aircrafts
1 PAF F-16 (fratricide)


U.S. A-10 Warthog kill record (tanks and aircrafts):

2 Iraqi Mi-8 Hips
850 + Iraqi T-72 MBTs, T-62 MBTs, & T-55 MBTs
300 Iraqi APCs

U.K AV-8A Sea Harrier kills in the Falkland War:

1 C-130 Hercules
1 Mirage III
9 Mirage V's
1 Canberra
1 Pucara
6 A-4 Skyhawks



Iraqi MIG-25PD kill record:

1 U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet

Ethiopian SU-27 kill record:

4 Eritrean MiG-29s

Eritrean MiG-29 kill record:

1 Ethiopian Mig-21

Russian MIG-29 Fulcrum kill record:

1 Afghan SU-22 Fitter

Iraqi Mig-21 kill record:

1 Iranian F-14 Tomcat
Other Iranian/Kuwait aircrafts?

Indian Mig-21 kill record:

4 PAF F-104 Starfighters

So based on what to you say Russian make great planes, looks, etc.

look mate all these statistics are based on the U.S. air force and Israeli airforce records which speak for themselves.U.S. never enters a war unprepared and most of its opponents till date were poor third world countries who had very little training or co-ordination in their air forces.just look at the 1st Gulf War,U.S. first decimated the Iraqi airforce on ground in preemptive stikes against the Iraqi airfields and the radar installations.then if you look at the Bosnian war,Serbia only had a handful of Mig-29s and most of them weren't properly maintained.these are the few reasons for your unprecedented success!now regarding the Israeli Air Force,man i have got some serious respect for them as they fight like tigers and they have single handedly vanquished all their Arab neighbours thrice.but if we look very carefully at their military history we can see that they were trained by none other than the U.S. which alone speaks for their superiority in training.on the other hands the Arabs,specially the Syrians and the Egyptians were subborn a**holes who didn't listen to their Soviet instructors most of the time and hence lacked in pilot training seriously.these all reasons together had made the Israelis so much successful against the Arabs!
but if the U.S. had fought with an airforce which was well trained and motivated andused soviet planes like East Germany or India then the result would have been quite different than the present one!:thumb:

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Many thing AA has mentioned is true but I would not say Russian tech is so far behind. When kh 31 was being
Developed it gave a lot of heatrburn to NATO getting back to the topic India has been financing Russian arms
Industry for decades from the gorshokov deal that saved the shipyards to t 90 to financing MiG and Sukhoii the
One gripe I have about this is Russians have never done a TOT like they promised a good example of this is
Brahmos. Russians also do not have a cold war mentality for India they are supplying arms now to Pakistan rd 93 being
A good example and also sneaky ways like supplying mid air refuellers to pak thru ukraine. Russians want ionly
Money and it is time india start looking at other options and break this cold war Russian monopoly in Indian defense
Market. Things are changing for the better when we started buying from USA,Israel and france. Russians have
Also been a major obstacle in India's indigenous defense. Industry.

 

[asianobserve]

Also been a major obstacle in India's indigenous defense. Industry.

Well Russia has been satisfying Indian defense requirements by these:

 

[no smoking]

Well the wild card here is avionics and sensor,asea capabilities of F-35 in export version.
Can AMCA,PAKFA or J-20 hope to match it in this sphere?
It would be a huge force multiplier if it's avionics and sensor fusion is put to use in a team of PAKFAs and AMCAs and all other 4th gen fighters.
So a small number of F-35 will do no harm in bringing up the entire avionics capability of the fleet in vital airdefence roles.

before dismissing it as worthless wild card this angle should be studied in depth.

Because HAl is going to do avionics for PAKFA.Will it match the F-35 standards?

Not really is my opinion.

Is there a way we can use the avionics of F-35 with the kinematic power of PAKFA in tandem?

Also it is carrier capable, a definite point to be considered for a naval fleet of 3 prospective aircraft careers.

Data connection between F35 and PAKFA?
I doubt how much Americans and Russians would like to reveal their systems to each other.
Even they agree to do so, you still got another problem in the way: budget!

 

[ersakthivel]

Data connection between F35 and PAKFA?
I doubt how much Americans and Russians would like to reveal their systems to each other.
Even they agree to do so, you still got another problem in the way: budget!

Data connection between AWACS and F-35 via data link.This data can be shared by any other craft not just pakfa.

 

[pmaitra]

Data connection between F35 and PAKFA?
I doubt how much Americans and Russians would like to reveal their systems to each other.
Even they agree to do so, you still got another problem in the way: budget!

What India really needs from the US is the blue-prints of this:

But you are right, they will never share/sell this one.

 

[pmaitra]

There is a big storm in the US over the F-135, the engine of the F-35 jet.

Interesting commentary by Rachel Maddow: F135 JSF Engine Blog: Rachel Maddow talks Extra Engine

 

[pmaitra]

Documentry on f-35 joint strike fighter (1,2,3/5)




The F-35 joint Strike Fighter has been thoroughly criticized. It's too fat, has very big cross section, and the wings are too small, thus making it less manoeuverable. I won't be surprised if MoD falls for this one, yet again.

 

[pmaitra]

Documentry on f-35 joint strike fighter (4,5/5)



The F-35 joint Strike Fighter has been thoroughly criticized. It's too fat, has very big cross section, and the wings are too small, thus making it less manoeuverable. I won't be surprised if MoD falls for this one, yet again.