India's Air Defense System and its Capabilities

Akula

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Bdw India iwill never go for pantsir s...
As we have mrsam programme on going
.....mrsam is a better system than pantsir s
.......
Three systems are running for $2.5 deal of Self-propelled air defence gun missile system. They are Russian (Tunguska M1 and Pantasir) and South Korean K-30 Boho. K-30 was shortlisted after Russian systems failed in trials. Russian were not happy and are trying to get this deal by lowering the price. One of the reasons for not showing interest in Pantsir maybe it's performance in Syria and Libya.
 

arkos

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Three systems are running for $2.5 deal of Self-propelled air defence gun missile system. They are Russian (Tunguska M1 and Pantasir) and South Korean K-30 Boho. K-30 was shortlisted after Russian systems failed in trials. Russian were not happy and are trying to get this deal by lowering the price. One of the reasons for not showing interest in Pantsir maybe it's performance in Syria and Libya.
Even Boho failed some trials like the Pantsir. Newer versions of Pantsir are much better than Boho and we should go for those. It is meant for our armored divisions so they will also be escorted by LCH/Rudra with Mistrals for protection against drones.


DRDO official website states that QRSAM is being inducted into the Indian Army(IA).
Yeah, development trials are done and user trials will be conducted.
 

Akula

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Even Boho failed some trials like the Pantsir. Newer versions of Pantsir are much better than Boho and we should go for those. It is meant for our armored divisions so they will also be escorted by LCH/Rudra with Mistrals for protection against drones.




Yeah, development trials are done and user trials will be conducted.
104659506_1735034233311823_8622042384575965946_o.jpg

Pantsir S1 and Pantsir SM
Russians have improved both radar and rockets in SM variant.
 

WolfPack86

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India intend to buy more than 30 Tula ZRPK “Shell-S” from Russia

Despite the fact that several years ago, India categorically refused to even consider the acquisition of the Russian Pantsir-S anti-aircraft missile and gun systems, having opted for analogues in South Korea, it became known that the latter obviously did not satisfy New Delhi, and at the moment, India wants to buy a very large number of Russian “Shells” – it is estimated that we are talking about 30-36 complexes.


Initially, Defense24 announced the purchase of the Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems by India, noting that India realized that covering the S-400 purchased from Russia would require highly effective air defense systems that could cover the Triumph deployment area.


Later, information appeared that it was a purchase of 30-36 Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems, however, the head of the Indian Ministry of Defense did not confirm this information, noting that the “Armor” is an ideal cover for S-400 positioning areas.


Prospects for the acquisition of air defense systems, according our Indian media, were discussed during a visit to Moscow by a delegation led by Minister of Defense Rajnat Singh.



According to the Indian observer Huma Siddiqui, the acquisition of this type of equipment is necessary for India because of the difficulties on the Indian-Chinese border – in the Ladakh region, whose territorial affiliation is disputed.


According to the latest data, one Pantsir-S air defense missile defense complex costs $ 10-12 million. if India purchases the Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile defense system, can reach 300-430 million dollars.


According to Military Review, Russia is offering India technology transfer with the possibility of producing some components of the Shell shell.
 

WolfPack86

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India intend to buy more than 30 Tula ZRPK “Shell-S” from Russia

Despite the fact that several years ago, India categorically refused to even consider the acquisition of the Russian Pantsir-S anti-aircraft missile and gun systems, having opted for analogues in South Korea, it became known that the latter obviously did not satisfy New Delhi, and at the moment, India wants to buy a very large number of Russian “Shells” – it is estimated that we are talking about 30-36 complexes.


Initially, Defense24 announced the purchase of the Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems by India, noting that India realized that covering the S-400 purchased from Russia would require highly effective air defense systems that could cover the Triumph deployment area.


Later, information appeared that it was a purchase of 30-36 Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems, however, the head of the Indian Ministry of Defense did not confirm this information, noting that the “Armor” is an ideal cover for S-400 positioning areas.


Prospects for the acquisition of air defense systems, according our Indian media, were discussed during a visit to Moscow by a delegation led by Minister of Defense Rajnat Singh.



According to the Indian observer Huma Siddiqui, the acquisition of this type of equipment is necessary for India because of the difficulties on the Indian-Chinese border – in the Ladakh region, whose territorial affiliation is disputed.


According to the latest data, one Pantsir-S air defense missile defense complex costs $ 10-12 million. if India purchases the Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile defense system, can reach 300-430 million dollars.


According to Military Review, Russia is offering India technology transfer with the possibility of producing some components of the Shell shell.
 

WolfPack86

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India intend to buy more than 30 Tula ZRPK “Shell-S” from Russia
India is considering the purchase of “several dozen” Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems.



Despite the fact that several years ago, India categorically refused to even consider the acquisition of the Russian Pantsir-S anti-aircraft missile and gun systems, having opted for analogues in South Korea, it became known that the latter obviously did not satisfy New Delhi, and at the moment, India wants to buy a very large number of Russian “Shells” – it is estimated that we are talking about 30-36 complexes.



Initially, Defense24 announced the purchase of the Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems by India, noting that India realized that covering the S-400 purchased from Russia would require highly effective air defense systems that could cover the Triumph deployment area. Later, information appeared that it was a purchase of 30-36 Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems, however, the head of the Indian Ministry of Defense did not confirm this information, noting that the “Armor” is an ideal cover for S-400 positioning areas.


Prospects for the acquisition of air defense systems, according our Indian media, were discussed during a visit to Moscow by a delegation led by Minister of Defense Rajnat Singh.


According to the Indian observer Huma Siddiqui, the acquisition of this type of equipment is necessary for India because of the difficulties on the Indian-Chinese border – in the Ladakh region, whose territorial affiliation is disputed.


According to the latest data, one Pantsir-S air defense missile defense complex costs $ 10-12 million. if India purchases the Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile defense system, can reach 300-430 million dollars.


According to Military Review, Russia is offering India technology transfer with the possibility of producing some components of the Shell shell.


“The shells can easily be integrated into a wider air defense network and act in conjunction with the S-400, which India requested to be delivered ahead of schedule,” the Indian military quoted the Indian media as saying.
ZRPK “Pantsir-S” – a self-propelled anti-aircraft ground-based missile-cannon system developed by the Tula State Unitary Enterprise “Instrument Design Bureau”. It is used for short-range cover of civilian and military installations, including long-range air defense systems, from all modern and promising air attack weapons. It is capable of detecting targets within a radius of 75 km, and the missile range of the latest versions of the complex is 40 km.
 

Tanmay

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Since the S400 will be more of a static weapon guarding Delhi or some important strategic base a Spyder system or own QRSAM can easily defend it

India realized that covering the S-400 purchased from Russia would require highly effective air defense systems that could cover the Triumph deployment area.
We always "realise" that we need tonnes of supplementary infra/eqpt after buying an already expensive equipment. And since these are sold as "necessary and critical" for normal functioning of the original piece of eqpt, no questions asked...
 

ARVION

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The posaible reason of the failure's of the Pantrir's System's.

The flip side of it, that means the Pantsir's can detect, track and lock something with the RCS of a small bird with those mobile radars.Radar isn't like sight, there is no way for it to image the bird from a drone like optics. The radar needs to find a way to differentiate the backscatter of a bird versus a drone. Kind of like this. You have to take account of the wing beat, so the object reflects radar in a way that is not constant but fluctuates with the wing beat. With a drone, lets say, with propeller, that has a different backscatter, depending on how fast the propeller rotates, it also creates a weird reflecting signal that times with the rotation of the propeller. Same with helicopter type propellers.

With jet type drones its very easy. Because its moving much faster than a bird, so much faster, its easy for the fast mover to show up using Moving Target Indicator or Pulse Doppler. Bingo, you know that ain't a bird if its moving at 300 kph. Then you need to know if the drone or jet is friend or foe, so your IFF goes to work to interrogate the target. If the target fails to respond or sends the wrong code, it becomes literally a target. Air defense is always going to be playing catch-up against attackers. Even SAMs that work perfectly as claimed will lose if the defender never actively targets the sources of enemy strikes like airfields, carriers, and ships. And we all know SAMs don't work half as well as advertised in the real world. Everything from patriots to S-200 to Pantsir have failed abysmally.
 

WolfPack86

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Not Keen On NASAMS-II, IAF Wants Indian Missile Defence
It’s official: The Indian Air Force doesn’t want the American NASAMS-II networked air defence system and has communicated this to the government. Pitched to India since 2017 in the wake of India’s decision to procure the Russian S-400 Triumf, Livefist has learnt that the Indian Air Force has informed the government that it would rather spend resources on the indigenous multi-tiered Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) program that includes medium and long range surface-to-air missile elements. The latter system has completed the first phase of its development and is currently part of plans for operational deployment by 2022.


That said, it is unclear if the IAF’s word will impact active ongoing India-US negotiations to acquire the NASAMS-II system. The Indian government kickstarted the procurement process in 2018, with the MoD according acceptance of necessity (AoN) for a NASAMS-II based ‘Integrated Air Defence Weapon System’ for the Delhi region, even though it isn’t strictly an anti-missile system. A steep dollar price tag — nearly double the $1 billion budgeted by India for the procurement — has slowed progress.


While the IAF had communicated its opinion on the NASAMS-II earlier this year, it is unclear if it will see things differently following the near-war situation that has bristled on the China border in Ladakh for over two months. What definitely hasn’t changed is the IAF’s support to the Indian BMD program. It must be said that the NASAMS-II and Indian BMD are not directly interchangeable. While the NASAMS-II is an air defence system designed to target aircraft and cruise missiles, the BMD system targets incoming ballistic missiles.

India’s ballistic missile defence (BMD) program, which began development two decades ago, is reported to be ready for deployment in a configuration for India’s national capital territory, with future phases to fine-tune and expand capabilities. At present, the BMD system includes the endo-atmospheric Advanced Air Defence (AAD) interceptor and the exo-atmospheric Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) systems. The IAF has pledged full support to the Indian BMD program and the necessary logistics to see it roll into operational service on time.


While the IAF’s view the NASAMS-II is crucial and may support concerns over the price of the system, it may not ultimately stall an acquisition. Like several items of military hardware, the NASAMS-II wasn’t pitched to meet a specific Indian requirement, but rather an offer made in the wake of India’s decision to buy five regiments of the Russian S-400 air defence missile system, the first of which arrive in India late 2021.


In that sense, the NASAMS-II is very much chess piece in the larger strategic game between the U.S. and Russia with India as the battlefield. Following the S-400 deal, India was able to successfully navigate possible punitive actions under the Trump Administration’s Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) through sustained diplomacy undoubtedly sweetened with the reminder of the near non-stop list of armament contracts awarded to US companies in the last decade. Agreeing to consider the NASAMS-II was very much part of this India-US interplay.


Russia has separately been lobbying hard against India’s decision to even consider the NASAMS-II. In August 2018, Dmitri Shugaev, chief of Russia’s Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) told Livefist, “We don’t see any need for India to buy NASAMS from U.S. as S-400 provides umbrella cover.” That, again, assumes that the NASAMS-II campaign is anchored in a staff requirement.

The NASAMS-II isn’t the first integrated air defence system that’s been pitched to India. Starting in 2004-05, the George W. Bush administration pushed a layered ballistic missile defence system to India comprising the endo-atmospheric Patriot PAC-3 and the exo-atmospheric THAADS (terminal high altitude air defence system). While India had a steady supply of Russian equipment for far longer than its renewed relationship with the US, choosing the S-400 was an especially violent jolt to Washington given the S-400’s reputation and its controversial role in the larger air defence interplay in the region.


The question at hand, now, is if the government will continue with plans to acquire the NASAMS-II or use cost concerns and the IAF’s reservations as leverage to push back. The truth also is that the dynamic has changed overwhelmingly in the last five months. The brink-of-war standoff between India and China in eastern Ladakh since May has turned several pre-standoff perceptions and views on their head. The impact on defence acquisitions and planning is clear to see, with a familiar flood of procurements now jostling for ‘fast track’ priority. Interestingly, the slew of new purchase efforts includes new air defence weaponry from Israel. Last year, the Indian Navy kickstarted a contest to choose new air defence missile weaponry for its future warships, a program that will see a pack of contenders including MBDA’s Sea Ceptor, an improved version of Israel’s IAI Barak, and offerings from Russia, Sweden’s Saab and South Korea.

If a deal for NASAMS-II does go through, it will have been birthed by the all new post-Covid/Ladakh world, one that is seeing an an intensifying alignment between India and the United States.
 

Tanmay

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A long thread. Though it missed IACCS, and dozens of Elta 2084, Rohini radars place along the border. Not to mention the two/three operational BMD radar sites hosting Green Pine derivatives

 

scatterStorm

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A long thread. Though it missed IACCS, and dozens of Elta 2084, Rohini radars place along the border. Not to mention the two/three operational BMD radar sites hosting Green Pine derivatives

He forgot that some units can be placed far apart as much as 150Km form the parent main detection unit thus increasing the range further. He also forgets that, If first sphere of defense is breached we have LRSAM (in future), MRSAM (active) and Point Defence SAM (Aakash).

Probably the only BMD defense system after Russia to have full coverage of tackling each interception at different ranges.

He also forgets that each different sphere of defense operates with different set of hardware and radar frequencies. So the aggressor jet has to hop frequencies when transitioning form 1 sphere of defense to another. (Assuming the aggressor still survives, highly unlikely).
 

aarav

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Pantsir as well as additional Spyder sams saga will be over as SRSAM land variant is on negative import list, additional orders for Akash MK1S & QRSAM is more or less confirmed so is MoD confidence in Akash MK2
 

Raj Malhotra

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I think we should pull out all our Zu-23 & L40/70 Air Defence Guns lying in storage & deploy them at Border to tackle the potential menace of Chinese Drones & Swarms. I think we might have anything from 1000-3000 Such Air Defence Guns lying in storage.
 

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