Indian Woman for Combat Duties

another_armchair

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It's already happneing with the PC judgement; they have again gone to court stating the Shape 1 fitness standard is unfair to women!
Simply stop inducting them in services. Will save a lot of headache.

SC is free to create an army of its own using its own budget.

Have any women officers completed the Commando course at Commando School, Belgaum?
 

12arya

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There was a time when (if u go thru the initial pages of this thread and read my comments) when i thought there must be quite some percentage of women who r as strong as men; I vociferously argued for their intake if they fit the standards.

But the more i read, the proof overwhelmingly point to the fact that such females remain illusive or simply don't exist. I mean women can b used in so many sectors in military but not infantry...at least not with the current tech.

I do believe so many intelligent women r out there who r as smarter or even more smarter then men intellectually and I believe women will excel in such fields where intelligence is needed.

But physically, men r simply too strong. That's how they r created and i just don't get why feminists consider this an attack on women? I just cannot understand why does feminists consider, being soft or gentle or soft bodied or kind or nurturing or polite, is detrimental to females!

Am I the only woman who think these values and physical peculiarities shud b cherished:frown:
May be I am too old-fashioned for the current scenario.
 

12arya

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Simply stop inducting them in services. Will save a lot of headache.

SC is free to create an army of its own using its own budget.

Have any women officers completed the Commando course at Commando School, Belgaum?
Not gonna happen, bro.
Besides, that's not the answer; we can use women so well and the defence sector is doing that. Female doctors, engineers, signals, education, supply corp, all have women doing a gud job, I believe. Let them do that.

But the issue is the insane demands for infantry/SF deployment and all the perks while crying out for lowering standards to fit women and refusing to lift the burden equally as men!
 

another_armchair

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There was a time when (if u go thru the initial pages of this thread and read my comments) when i thought there must be quite some percentage of women who r as strong as men; I vociferously argued for their intake if they fit the standards.

But the more i read, the proof overwhelmingly point to the fact that such females remain illusive or simply don't exist. I mean women can b used in so many sectors in military but not infantry...at least not with the current tech.

I do believe so many intelligent women r out there who r as smarter or even more smarter then men intellectually and I believe women will excel in such fields where intelligence is needed.

But physically, men r simply too strong. That's how they r created and i just don't get why feminists consider this an attack on women? I just cannot understand why does feminists consider, being soft or gentle or soft bodied or kind or nurturing or polite, is detrimental to females!

Am I the only woman who think these values and physical peculiarities shud b cherished:frown:
May be I am too old-fashioned for the current scenario.
Women can be very nimble and have quick reflexes. Can be very lethal in CQB but that has to be limited to urban warfare only.

Let them volunteer for NSG and undergo probation. State police can raise small batches of women commandos who are mentally and physically capable of the grind. Let them successfully deal with local goons first.

We keep seeing how a 5 feet or maybe taller female IPS police officer has to be surrounded and protected by male cops when the situation gets real hairy.There have been cases of lady constables being molested and raped by rioting mobs in the past.

People generally don't mess around with the female wing of RAF because they have a fair bit of experience and their SOP is clear - Save self first and their training is quite rigorous.

The standards fall drastically for lady officer grade at OTA, NISA, NPA etc.
 

another_armchair

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Not gonna happen, bro.
Besides, that's not the answer; we can use women so well and the defence sector is doing that. Female doctors, engineers, signals, education, supply corp, all have women doing a gud job, I believe. Let them do that.

But the issue is the insane demands for infantry/SF deployment and all the perks while crying out for lowering standards to fit women and refusing to lift the burden equally as men!
If you demand pay parity, you have to match the exact standards as your male counterparts. Simple as that.
 

Killbot

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Women can be very nimble and have quick reflexes. Can be very lethal in CQB but that has to be limited to urban warfare only.

Let them volunteer for NSG and undergo probation. State police can raise small batches of women commandos who are mentally and physically capable of the grind. Let them successfully deal with local goons first.

We keep seeing how a 5 feet or maybe taller female IPS police officer has to be surrounded and protected by male cops when the situation gets real hairy.There have been cases of lady constables being molested and raped by rioting mobs in the past.

People generally don't mess around with the female wing of RAF because they have a fair bit of experience and their SOP is clear - Save self first and their training is quite rigorous.

The standards fall drastically for lady officer grade at OTA, NISA, NPA etc.
Urban warfare is the worst task for women as it demands extremely quick reaction, with threats emerging left and right all the time. What if a section has to deploy within 10 mins notice, and one female soldier has a period or something? You si.ply cannot compromise on operational readiness for whatsoever reason. Women cannot be part of infantry or artillery in an army actively engaged in combat.
 

12arya

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Women can be very nimble and have quick reflexes. Can be very lethal in CQB but that has to be limited to urban warfare only.
But that's not the argument bro; its not abt being nimble and all. Instead, feminists always insist on women being equally as tough as men.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...se-cop-of-harassment/articleshow/54301281.cms

If they r as strong as men, how r they getting harassed and committing suicide? Won't they be able to stand up to that? If they can't protect themselves how will they protect all of us?

I personally have faced a lot of verbal abuse and issues in my life and I have stood up to such people. I know physically I cannot win since I'm just 5'2 but I won't simply give up or suicide. That's not me. That's moronic in my opinion. U stand up for yourself.

The thing is, these women and girls, in general, these days claim to be strong but when push comes to shove they simply give up. There was 21 yr old female former colleague of mine, outright demanded that women shud be given leave on menstruation, in-office work! I was quite shocked since I have almost nvr taken leave (except twice thru my entire school and college and work life)bcoz of periods and i do experience heavy pain but im used to it. My sis in law used to work upto 14 hrs and night shift too during peak work committments and i have nvr seen her taking off for periods! I don't know if young girls r doing it since they find it convenient to forego work ethic.

I personally have no respect to such women bcoz in my life no feminist backed me; I stood thru my struggles on my own, so snowflakes don't impress me.
 

12arya

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What if a section has to deploy within 10 mins notice, and one female soldier has a period or something?
The big issue is higher infection rate; if there is even a drop in hygene UTI; if water is not gud, UTI; if u sleep with a not so clean guy, result UTI; get sexually active first, UTI.

I got UTI just by using public western toilet once!

I cannot imagine crawling in mud during periods or in general bcoz UTI :frown: I know many women in military do it and kudos to them.
 

SKC

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But that's not the argument bro; its not abt being nimble and all. Instead, feminists always insist on women being equally as tough as men.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...se-cop-of-harassment/articleshow/54301281.cms

If they r as strong as men, how r they getting harassed and committing suicide? Won't they be able to stand up to that? If they can't protect themselves how will they protect all of us?

I personally have faced a lot of verbal abuse and issues in my life and I have stood up to such people. I know physically I cannot win since I'm just 5'2 but I won't simply give up or suicide. That's not me. That's moronic in my opinion. U stand up for yourself.

The thing is, these women and girls, in general, these days claim to be strong but when push comes to shove they simply give up. There was 21 yr old female former colleague of mine, outright demanded that women shud be given leave on menstruation, in-office work! I was quite shocked since I have almost nvr taken leave (except twice thru my entire school and college and work life)bcoz of periods and i do experience heavy pain but im used to it. My sis in law used to work upto 14 hrs and night shift too during peak work committments and i have nvr seen her taking off for periods! I don't know if young girls r doing it since they find it convenient to forego work ethic.

I personally have no respect to such women bcoz in my life no feminist backed me; I stood thru my struggles on my own, so snowflakes don't impress me.
The big issue is these feminists dont consider the other branches of Army where there is already good presence of women to be equal enough. They think only and only Front line induction is real job in ARmy and only after induction to front lines they will become equal to Men counterpart.

Already enough relaxations were made by Armed forces in the hurry of inducting women officers in every field. So many short height officers are getting induction with claims that they are same as men and will beat their a** if needed.

There are more than enough account of horror of working with Female officers on front lines from US and EU army units deployed in Middle east and Afghanistan.
One Major Veteran from Afghanistan told that he was sent a group of 4 supposedly best female officers claimed to trained same as male officers. On their very first encounter with taliban rebels on an outpost, all 4 of them ditched their gun and started crying on slightest pressure. They had to sent back to base headquarter from front line posts.
The Navy is considered to be best place where Female soldiers do really well. Even from there are multiple accounts on how they succumbs rather easily to pressure.
Also it is much more easier for them to get leaves and avoid deployment for good part of year compared to males.
 

SKC

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But that's not the argument bro; its not abt being nimble and all. Instead, feminists always insist on women being equally as tough as men.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...se-cop-of-harassment/articleshow/54301281.cms

If they r as strong as men, how r they getting harassed and committing suicide? Won't they be able to stand up to that? If they can't protect themselves how will they protect all of us?

I personally have faced a lot of verbal abuse and issues in my life and I have stood up to such people. I know physically I cannot win since I'm just 5'2 but I won't simply give up or suicide. That's not me. That's moronic in my opinion. U stand up for yourself.

The thing is, these women and girls, in general, these days claim to be strong but when push comes to shove they simply give up. There was 21 yr old female former colleague of mine, outright demanded that women shud be given leave on menstruation, in-office work! I was quite shocked since I have almost nvr taken leave (except twice thru my entire school and college and work life)bcoz of periods and i do experience heavy pain but im used to it. My sis in law used to work upto 14 hrs and night shift too during peak work committments and i have nvr seen her taking off for periods! I don't know if young girls r doing it since they find it convenient to forego work ethic.

I personally have no respect to such women bcoz in my life no feminist backed me; I stood thru my struggles on my own, so snowflakes don't impress me.
i have been fortunate to have worked with one of the most Bada** female colleague. She worked honestly and never seeked excuse for leaves. She partied like some of us hardcore males and could stand up face to face with any odd behaving colleague if need arised. She worked long hours and not taking off during periods if not needed. She was one of the best friend of mine from office. She got what she deserved , got onsite opportunity and is working in US currently.
 

12arya

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i have been fortunate to have worked with one of the most Bada** female colleague. She worked honestly and never seeked excuse for leaves. She partied like some of us hardcore males and could stand up face to face with any odd behaving colleague if need arised. She worked long hours and not taking off during periods if not needed. She was one of the best friend of mine from office. She got what she deserved , got onsite opportunity and is working in US currently.
And that's y i hate feminists, bro.
Just like those female vermins who make fake rape claims which lead to denial of justice to real rape victims, feminists bring a bad name to many hard working, strong, intelligent women!
 

12arya

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The big issue is these feminists dont consider the other branches of Army where there is already good presence of women to be equal enough. They think only and only Front line induction is real job in ARmy and only after induction to front lines they will become equal to Men counterpart.
It reaffirms their ignorance.

Bcoz our females r deployed to Siachen base camp(i remember seeing a female doc there in a docu) or such extreme weather condition yet they do their job. No appreciation for that.
Female docs & nurses have been serving in most armies since long; since caring and nurturing is natural to woman, they won't appreciate female docs or nurses.

1603465027470.png

Till women do this, feminists won't respect at all! Every other woman who retains their femininity or does something feminine is a loser in their perspective:frown:
 

vampyrbladez

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Now they have suddenly remembered menstruation and biological differences when army told them to shape up if they want PC!

Criterion to screen women for permanent commission unfair, Army officers tell SC

Women officers have filed a plea challenging the General Instructions issued by the Indian Army to screen them for permanent commission.

21 October, 2020 7:19 pm IST


New Delhi: Women officers, who fought a decade-long court battle for securing permanent commission (PC) in the Indian Army, are now engaged in yet another litigation.


This time, they have challenged the General Instructions (GI) issued by the Indian Army on 1 August in compliance with the Supreme Court’s 17 February judgment granting PC to its women officers.


The GI refers to the set of instructions to screen women officers for PC in the Indian Army.


In their fresh petition last week, the women officers have alleged that the GI sets out a general medical criterion for all women officers without considering the physiological and biological changes that may have occurred in a few of them during their service period.


They have also alleged that the GI does not mention the promotional avenues for women officers once they become permanent and do not offer them a time-scale promotion benefit, which is available to male officers who have served the Army for more than 26 years.


The landmark February ruling had also directed the central government to grant promotion and other consequential benefits to women officers. But the petitioners have alleged that the GI indirectly traps them into “technical and procedural formalities and consequential denial of their rights”.


Advocate Chitrangada Rastravara, who represented women officers in the top court last week, told that the “purported compliance” of the SC judgment, almost five months after it was delivered, is “vitiated with arbitrariness, unfairness and unreasonableness”.


“This is a piecemeal approach by the Army. It has failed to determine a fair, rational road map and a well-reasoned policy for women officers, pushing them to approach the court again to assert their rights. Time is extremely crucial for these women officers who have already lost 15 years (time spent in courts). Instead of compensating them for their loss, the Army is penalising them further with such arbitrary instructions,” Rastrava said.


‘Subjecting all women to common deadline irrational’

The women officers have submitted that the medical criterion laid down in the GI is inconsistent with the basic tenets of Article 14 of the Constitution.


Women officers who are being considered for permanent commission fall within the age bracket of 35-50 years. But the medical parameters incorporated in the GI to evaluate them are the same as used for male officers aged 25-30 years, who are given the option of a permanent commission in their 5th and 10th year of service.


“This kind of prejudicial determination will lead to denial of PC to those officers who are equally qualified as their male counterparts and were kept in abeyance only for want of an opportunity of PC at the relevant time in their service career,” the officers claimed.


They also submitted that the medical parameters do not recognise physiological changes as a part of the aging process in the case of women officers. For instance, women officers above 45 years (approaching menopause) as well as unmarried women officers have been asked to undergo pregnancy test, overlooking their age and marital status.


The medical category of a woman in the Army is lowered when a pregnancy is confirmed and she is protected from strenuous duties. In the GI for women, a common deadline has been laid for all women officers, including those in the low medical category, to upgrade themselves to ‘Shape-1‘ category for the grant of PC, said the petitioners.


Subjecting all women to a common deadline is irrational and unjust, they said.

Lack of promotion policy

The petitioners have also highlighted the absence of a policy for promotion of women officers who will be approved by the Permanent Commission Board.


The existing parameters on which an officer is assessed for the purposes of promotion includes attending certain courses and appointments. However, since women officers were not eligible for PC earlier, they never got an opportunity to attend these courses. And, even if they were given an opportunity to attend those, it wasn’t for the purpose of evaluation by the promotion board, the officers said.


The women officers argued that they cannot be evaluated for promotion on the basis of parameters fixed for their male counterparts. This lack of promotion policy is likely to become another hurdle or roadblock for the women officers, unless fresh rules are prepared by the Army, they said.


“The conduct of the respondent suggests that they are playing psychological warfare with these women officers to avoid every possibility of granting them the benefits of permanent commission, promotion and consequential benefits, which is in clear violation of the order,” the petition said.
SC said hamara kaam ho gaya. File writ petition.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.time...minatory-sc-told/amp_articleshow/78178582.cms
 

FGFAPilot1

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Someone please read about the gradual decline of the Romans and the Greeks, there are a lot of parallels which can be drawn to our modern western world and I think the Indian civilization as well (as we just ape the west).

For one, women were being given undue attention, power and were pampered, which slowly led to a societal collapse of the social structures gluing the people together.

I'm not saying women empowerment is bad but it's peculiar to note the signs and cycles of social degradation have not changed since ancient times.
 

vampyrbladez

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No bro. Never underestimate these feminasis. They'll keep on banging SC's door till they allow it.
SC cannot tell Army about standards. They can only request changes.

Defunding the NGOs will take a huge portion of the wind out of their sails.
 

12arya

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Army shunts officiating Commandant of OTA Chennai following complaints

The officer, a Major General, had been posted as Deputy Commandant of OTA, Chennai in May this year and was officiating as Commandant since July.


Written by Man Aman Singh Chhina


The Army finally decided to act in the matter and has posted the Major General as Chief of Staff of a Corps and another Major General has been posted as the officiating Commandant at OTA.
(Source: indianarmy.nic.in)

The Army has shunted out the officiating Commandant of the Officers Training Academy (OTA), Chennai, after receiving complaints regarding his approach to training woman cadets.

The officer, a Major General, had been posted as Deputy Commandant of OTA, Chennai in May this year and was officiating as Commandant since July. It is learnt that complaints had been received by the Army about the officer while dealing with the training of woman cadets in the academy and his emphasis on more “hands-on” approach towards activities like their military training and PT.

He is alleged to have encouraged physical contact with woman cadets and there were other issues of passing them in physical tests by allegedly lowering the required standards.

The officer is learnt to have justified his approach by saying that gender equality has to be ingrained in the minds of the cadets at the level of the training academy and that outdated methods of training should be abandoned. He is also said to have told the instructional staff for better training methods to decrease the failure rate among woman cadets in physical activities.

However, it is learnt that there was considerable discontent among the instructors, both men and women, and some woman cadets at the academy regarding the Major General’s approach.


“The matter reached the level of the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Army Training Command (ARTRAC) Lt Gen Raj Shukla, who visited the OTA and personally took stock of the situation,” a senior Army officer revealed on condition of anonymity.

The Army finally decided to act in the matter and has posted the Major General as Chief of Staff of a Corps and another Major General has been posted as the officiating Commandant at OTA.

When contacted, while declining to comment on the issue, a senior officer at Army Headquarters said, “As an organisation, the Army prides itself on providing a safe and secure working environment to all ranks by strictly implementing guidelines listed in various laws enacted by the Parliament as well as the Supreme Court to prevent sexual harassment of soldiers, officers and cadets. The Indian Army practices zero tolerance towards violation of established guidelines and practices and all allegations are promptly investigated and taken to a logical conclusion.”

The Major General in question had earlier faced a court of inquiry in 2014 as a Brigadier when a woman doctor in the USA had levelled charges of unbecoming conduct against him during his tenure at Indian Permanent Mission at UN in New York. However, the Court of Inquiry had cleared his name of the allegations at the time.

The OTA Chennai, which trains cadets for short service commission in the Army, has 80-90 woman cadets under training at any given point of time along with 370-odd male cadets. There are four woman officers who are part of the team of instructors and who are supposed to be dealing closely with the woman cadets.
 

Haldilal

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There was a time when (if u go thru the initial pages of this thread and read my comments) when i thought there must be quite some percentage of women who r as strong as men; I vociferously argued for their intake if they fit the standards.

But the more i read, the proof overwhelmingly point to the fact that such females remain illusive or simply don't exist. I mean women can b used in so many sectors in military but not infantry...at least not with the current tech.

I do believe so many intelligent women r out there who r as smarter or even more smarter then men intellectually and I believe women will excel in such fields where intelligence is needed.

But physically, men r simply too strong. That's how they r created and i just don't get why feminists consider this an attack on women? I just cannot understand why does feminists consider, being soft or gentle or soft bodied or kind or nurturing or polite, is detrimental to females!

Am I the only woman who think these values and physical peculiarities shud b cherished:frown:
May be I am too old-fashioned for the current scenario.
Ya @12arya Nibbi it's like this Womens are like carefully sculpted like a sport cars and we are utility focused like a 4 × 4 AWD Vehicles. :troll:
 

ArgonPrime

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Army shunts officiating Commandant of OTA Chennai following complaints

The officer, a Major General, had been posted as Deputy Commandant of OTA, Chennai in May this year and was officiating as Commandant since July.

Written by Man Aman Singh Chhina


The Army finally decided to act in the matter and has posted the Major General as Chief of Staff of a Corps and another Major General has been posted as the officiating Commandant at OTA.
(Source: indianarmy.nic.in)

The Army has shunted out the officiating Commandant of the Officers Training Academy (OTA), Chennai, after receiving complaints regarding his approach to training woman cadets.

The officer, a Major General, had been posted as Deputy Commandant of OTA, Chennai in May this year and was officiating as Commandant since July. It is learnt that complaints had been received by the Army about the officer while dealing with the training of woman cadets in the academy and his emphasis on more “hands-on” approach towards activities like their military training and PT.

He is alleged to have encouraged physical contact with woman cadets and there were other issues of passing them in physical tests by allegedly lowering the required standards.

The officer is learnt to have justified his approach by saying that gender equality has to be ingrained in the minds of the cadets at the level of the training academy and that outdated methods of training should be abandoned. He is also said to have told the instructional staff for better training methods to decrease the failure rate among woman cadets in physical activities.

However, it is learnt that there was considerable discontent among the instructors, both men and women, and some woman cadets at the academy regarding the Major General’s approach.


“The matter reached the level of the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Army Training Command (ARTRAC) Lt Gen Raj Shukla, who visited the OTA and personally took stock of the situation,” a senior Army officer revealed on condition of anonymity.

The Army finally decided to act in the matter and has posted the Major General as Chief of Staff of a Corps and another Major General has been posted as the officiating Commandant at OTA.

When contacted, while declining to comment on the issue, a senior officer at Army Headquarters said, “As an organisation, the Army prides itself on providing a safe and secure working environment to all ranks by strictly implementing guidelines listed in various laws enacted by the Parliament as well as the Supreme Court to prevent sexual harassment of soldiers, officers and cadets. The Indian Army practices zero tolerance towards violation of established guidelines and practices and all allegations are promptly investigated and taken to a logical conclusion.”

The Major General in question had earlier faced a court of inquiry in 2014 as a Brigadier when a woman doctor in the USA had levelled charges of unbecoming conduct against him during his tenure at Indian Permanent Mission at UN in New York. However, the Court of Inquiry had cleared his name of the allegations at the time.

The OTA Chennai, which trains cadets for short service commission in the Army, has 80-90 woman cadets under training at any given point of time along with 370-odd male cadets. There are four woman officers who are part of the team of instructors and who are supposed to be dealing closely with the woman cadets.
A Major General as a corps commander??!!
 

12arya

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49% women officers to serve, Indian Army releases permanent commission Board results
Sources told India Today that around 49 per cent of women officers will continue to serve in the Indian Army after the results of the first-ever Board held for granting permanent commission (PC) to women officers.


Indian Army on Thursday declared the results of the first-ever Board held for granting permanent commission (PC) to women officers. The Number 5 Selection Board was constituted following the Supreme Court of India's landmark judgement in February 2020, directing the Army to induct all eligible women officers as permanent commission officers.

Around 49 per cent women officers would continue to serve in the force while close to 320 women officers will retire after 20 years of pensionable service, sources within the Indian Army told India Today.
In September of this year, the Supreme Court had refused to entertain a plea for granting benefits of permanent commission to women SSC (Short Service Commission) officers. The apex court, in its February order, had said that the benefit of continuing in service until the attainment of 20 years pensionable service shall also apply to all the existing SSC officers with more than fourteen years of service.
This was announced as a one-time measure.

The Ministry of Defence had in July sanctioned permanent commission to women officers in all 10 streams of the Indian Army pursuant to the Supreme Court's directions. A former Government Sanction Letter was issued to grant permanent commission to women officers in the Indian Army.

Short Service Commissioned (SSC) women officers were granted permanent commission in all 10 streams of the Indian Army- Army Air Defence (AAD), Signals, Engineers, Army Aviation, Electronics and Mechanical Engineers (EME), Army Service Corps (ASC), Army Ordnance Corps (AOC), and Intelligence Corps in addition to the existing streams of Judge and Advocate General (JAG) and Army Educational Corps (AEC).
 

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