Indian Special Forces

Unknownwarrior

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Forget it, if the deal hasn’t been signed by now it’s not happening
Actually the problem there is babus themselves.... Army wants to buy all the equipment at one through FMS under a single 1000 crore deal.... Whereas Babus want them to buy it under pockets of smaller deals of 200 300 crore..... This is the only hurdle ... It can be sorted if CDS mounts pressure on our Kadi ninda expert Rajnath.... And he then asks babus ki... Beta rhn do tumse na ho payega... And signs the deal... Rest everything is finalised.... Source for what I said... Article of Mr. Unnithan
Screenshot_20210114-103322.png
 

Gessler

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Actually it was just an assumption made by many of those who know about the deal.... Para currently uses single tube NVG.... Then it would not buy that again.... Now the options left are of Dual tube and quad tube.... What I think is that there would be mix of both.... These equipments are brought after evaluations done with socom.... So they would have tried both...Now there is a wait and watch situation.... Also these NVGs would cost around 125 crores as the price of these NVGs in around 40k dollars... Scars would be around 200 300 crore.. the whole deal is around 1000 crore ... If you take the total sum... It would be around 425 crore max.. you would still have 575 crore left for scar l lmg snipers etc... Sources :-
Indian SFs (at least the mainstream units like Para SF) never train with JSOC Tier-1, which are the ones who chiefly use the -18s. We trained with Tier-2 units like Rangers, Green Berets etc and far as I know, there are no Tier-2 users of -18s. So highly unlikely Paras ever even came into contact with -18s.

The capability set provided by the -18s is not likely to be very relevant for a Tier-2 style force which principally does support for Tier-1s as part of QRFs or otherwise required for long-duration overland maneuvers. So the likes of Rangers prefer the smaller, lighter PVS-31s and such.

So while we can't conclusively say what the model of NVGs being sought are, I think personally I'd lean heavily toward aforementioned PVS-31. And if it were to be White Phosphor-based, I'd be overjoyed.

 

mupper

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Indian SFs (at least the mainstream units like Para SF) never train with JSOC Tier-1, which are the ones who chiefly use the -18s. We trained with Tier-2 units like Rangers, Green Berets etc and far as I know, there are no Tier-2 users of -18s. So highly unlikely Paras ever even came into contact with -18s.

The capability set provided by the -18s is not likely to be very relevant for a Tier-2 style force which principally does support for Tier-1s as part of QRFs or otherwise required for long-duration overland maneuvers. So the likes of Rangers prefer the smaller, lighter PVS-31s and such.

So while we can't conclusively say what the model of NVGs being sought are, I think personally I'd lean heavily toward aforementioned PVS-31. And if it were to be White Phosphor-based, I'd be overjoyed.

Don't mean to be that guy but the idea that it's almost only the Unit in the US that uses -18's is not really the case, The 75th etc do use them....,Jebus local German SEK's have them.
 

Unknownwarrior

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Indian SFs (at least the mainstream units like Para SF) never train with JSOC Tier-1, which are the ones who chiefly use the -18s. We trained with Tier-2 units like Rangers, Green Berets etc and far as I know, there are no Tier-2 users of -18s. So highly unlikely Paras ever even came into contact with -18s.

The capability set provided by the -18s is not likely to be very relevant for a Tier-2 style force which principally does support for Tier-1s as part of QRFs or otherwise required for long-duration overland maneuvers. So the likes of Rangers prefer the smaller, lighter PVS-31s and such.

So while we can't conclusively say what the model of NVGs being sought are, I think personally I'd lean heavily toward aforementioned PVS-31. And if it were to be White Phosphor-based, I'd be overjoyed.

Ek baat bolu... Har baat mein danda nahi Krna chahiye... Mein kuch source dekh k hi bolunga ki SOCOM k sath evaluation huye hai.... Sandeep sir ke article mein clearly likha hai.... Aur India US ka major defence ally hai... So aisi hont training mein unko koi problem nahi hogi.... And the nvg that are mentioned by are being brought.... Then kaam 70 - 75 crore mein ho jata... And I think they would have gone for more units rather than buying just 400..... Thak gaya hoon subah se source aur counter dete dete....
Screenshot_20210114-113142.png
Screenshot_20210114-113042.png

Adhe se bhi kam ka hai bro....

Meanwhile socom k sath evaluation wala article
Screenshot_20210114-112500.png

Ab bhai... Army ko maja toh aa nahi raha hai 1000 crore ki deal sign krne mein... Infact agar dual tube bhi aata hai... Toh it would be better than those shitty single tube.... Baaki quad tube toh tonbo de dega.... But what I think is that deal is of quad tube going on smaller no. Of NVGs with the bigger size of whole deal
 

Killbot

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Don't mean to be that guy but the idea that it's almost only the Unit in the US that uses -18's is not really the case, The 75th etc do use them....,Jebus local German SEK's have them.
OT, but what suppressor is that on the M240? Looks like a Surefire SOCOM series one. Those can be used on MGs? Wouldn't that be ill advised? @Gessler.
 

Gessler

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Ek baat bolu... Har baat mein danda nahi Krna chahiye... Mein kuch source dekh k hi bolunga ki SOCOM k sath evaluation huye hai.... Sandeep sir ke article mein clearly likha hai.... Aur India US ka major defence ally hai... So aisi hont training mein unko koi problem nahi hogi.... And the nvg that are mentioned by are being brought.... Then kaam 70 - 75 crore mein ho jata... And I think they would have gone for more units rather than buying just 400..... Thak gaya hoon subah se source aur counter dete dete.... View attachment 73699

Meanwhile socom k sath evaluation wala articleView attachment 73701
Ab bhai... Army ko maja toh aa nahi raha hai 1000 crore ki deal sign krne mein... Infact agar dual tube bhi aata hai... Toh it would be better than those shitty single tube.... Baaki quad tube toh tonbo de dega.... But what I think is that deal is of quad tube going on smaller no. Of NVGs with the bigger size of whole deal
Arey bhai Rangers and USSF also come under SOCOM, all the Vajra Prahaar exercises we conduct are with SOCOM. That doesn't automatically mean we evaluated GPNVG-18s. The vast majority of SOCOM doesn't have -18s, only the JSOC Tier-1 units which are a very small component of SOCOM do. And we rarely if ever conduct any joint exercises with them.

And calculating prices of package deals is not as simple as calculating off-the-shelf price of equipment and multiplying by given number. For a deal like this is likely to be millions worth of support equipment, spares, etc which are not mentioned.

For example we all know IA's SIG 716 deal costed approx 700 crores or $97 million. And we all know that SIG's winning bid for L-1 had pegged price per rifle at $990.

72,400 x 990 = $71 million. So what did we buy with remaining $26 million ?? We bought all kinds of support equipment, such as spare parts, extra magazines, iron sights, cleaning & maintenance kits, slings, boresighting equipment, training lessons etc. etc. You won't find the cost of such things mentioned anywhere but they are significant.

And in the SF deal in question we are talking about 3-4 types of guns in different calibres, and stuff like NVGs & parachute kit which comes with its own support kit, its a far more fragmented deal. So before you jump off counting the sums, think of all this.

OT, but what suppressor is that on the M240? Looks like a Surefire SOCOM series one. Those can be used on MGs? Wouldn't that be ill advised? @Gessler.
Yes, Surefire seems like. There are models that are designed for MGs as well.
 

rkhanna

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Don't mean to be that guy but the idea that it's almost only the Unit in the US that uses -18's is not really the case, The 75th etc do use them....,Jebus local German SEK's have them.
There is a. 75th Unit that is Tier I and part of Jsoc

Suppressors on an MG plays the following role. 1) lowers noise on the battle field to enable superior comms 2) allows you to engage first still providing decent amount of stealth with regards to revealing your pos 3) increases accuracy for controlled burst
 

Gessler

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Don't mean to be that guy but the idea that it's almost only the Unit in the US that uses -18's is not really the case, The 75th etc do use them....,Jebus local German SEK's have them.
I'm aware. Had once also made an extensive list of non-American users of -18s.

As of the usage, like I said units that prioritize in-and-out type of operations would have no qualms about adopting them. That goes for likes for FBI HRT and several LE units as well.

But that's not the same as putting them on a unit that may have to huff it 10km across terrain to set up an OP.
 

mupper

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There is a. 75th Unit that is Tier I and part of Jsoc

Suppressors on an MG plays the following role. 1) lowers noise on the battle field to enable superior comms 2) allows you to engage first still providing decent amount of stealth with regards to revealing your pos 3) increases accuracy for controlled burst
Yeah the RRC, but they are pretty much gone permanently from the 75th's OOB and have been replaced by a newly stood up recce unit.
 

Unknownwarrior

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Arey bhai Rangers and USSF also come under SOCOM, all the Vajra Prahaar exercises we conduct are with SOCOM. That doesn't automatically mean we evaluated GPNVG-18s. The vast majority of SOCOM doesn't have -18s, only the JSOC Tier-1 units which are a very small component of SOCOM do. And we rarely if ever conduct any joint exercises with them.

And calculating prices of package deals is not as simple as calculating off-the-shelf price of equipment and multiplying by given number. For a deal like this is likely to be millions worth of support equipment, spares, etc which are not mentioned.

For example we all know IA's SIG 716 deal costed approx 700 crores or $97 million. And we all know that SIG's winning bid for L-1 had pegged price per rifle at $990.

72,400 x 990 = $71 million. So what did we buy with remaining $26 million ?? We bought all kinds of support equipment, such as spare parts, extra magazines, iron sights, cleaning & maintenance kits, slings, boresighting equipment, training lessons etc. etc. You won't find the cost of such things mentioned anywhere but they are significant.

And in the SF deal in question we are talking about 3-4 types of guns in different calibres, and stuff like NVGs & parachute kit which comes with its own support kit, its a far more fragmented deal. So before you jump off counting the sums, think of all this.



Yes, Surefire seems like. There are models that are designed for MGs as well.
Are you parthu? The twitter guy who made arma redemption of para and afsod.....


BTW what I think it can be a mixed bad deal.... Few quad tubes and few dual tube.... They can buy quad tube in that budget....
 

Gessler

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Are you parthu? The twitter guy who made arma redemption of para and afsod.....
Yes.

BTW what I think it can be a mixed bad deal.... Few quad tubes and few dual tube.... They can buy quad tube in that budget....
It was never a problem with budget. And in any event no one could be happier than me if we indeed end up getting some -18s.
 

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