Indian Special Forces

abingdonboy

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Lt Gen CP Mohanty, Army Commander, Southern Command, visited Jodhpur Sub Area, Special Forces and other establishments at #Jodhpur and complimented them on their high operational and training standards.
The FM LSVs do look pretty decent. But is that a non-ballistic high cut and wtf is that plate carrier? Seems like what infantry are issued. Sometimes these guys have the new MOLLE “high speed” kind and then others they have this kind of junk.

The Armed forces are such teases, what you want to see is always on the periphery of what they publish. Instead they show a bunch of high ranking generals walking around and pointing at stuff.
 

Popeye

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do they really need it🙃
Offcourse. NSG Divers is the Only Solutions, Area like Sundarbans, haldia in state West Bengal Where Indian Navy almost have no presence. Within short notice they will reach out from regional Hub.
 

abingdonboy

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Bro Para are illiterates when it comes to such things.

Their high headedness is the reason for all this.

Sometimes i fail to understand why do we have to import such things.Doesnt it make common sense when you are deployed in combat that you need some tools?

Even Early man made tools!

Then we have to rely on tools made by Israelis and Americans and import them?

What did we learn from the battlefield?Dont we know we need a fucking shield if we get into urban warfare?

Is a ballistic shield impossible to invent?

Dont we know we need suppressors?Do we know what suppressors are for?

Do we think after spending so much time in combat that transition drills are important,etc etc etc

I mean what is the use of combat if it doesnt help you develop tools and tactics.

After spending so much time in combat the israelis had to teach Para proper room interventions.

AF and Navy on an average employ much more educationally qualified people across all platforms.

Navy people have the best team spirit and comradrie in my opinion.

I think if we deploy them in large numbers in Kashmir we will have positive results.
Watch this:


A few points about what the US Military but specifically SF community learned after the Battle for Mogadishu (black hawk down incident)

- importance of lighter plate carriers with front and back plates
- the need for their CSAR teams to have emergency rescue equipment like the jaws of life, now ALL their CSAR (PJ?) crews have this as mandatory equipment
- the use of NODs, specially the flip down helmet mounted kind, they want to “own the night”
- Operators have their own emergency provisions depending on the nature of the mission (a “go bag”) in case they face a similar situation again where they are behind enemy lines
- it seems like the entire emergency medical treatment process was built in this battle as well as the tiny things like how to fold a tourniquet.


This was all from ONE battle 25+ years ago now but the lessons are still tangible and have been applied US military wide and for their entire SF community, I’m sure there’s plenty more lessons they didn’t share.

And Indian SF have been fighting the exact same fight in the exact same way for how many decades now? How many battles have they had? How many encounters? What’s changed? What new equipment has emerged?


THIS is the difference between leaders and followers. When Indian units do get new gear these days it’s almost solely becuase they are blindly imitating a Western unit like those amateur airsofters do.

This is also about Institutional culture and not merely money. If you gave Indian SFs per capita spending equivalent of US SOFs do we really think this would make them a more dynamicand responsive entity? US SOFs have an incredible feedback mechanism,lessons learnt in the battlefield are fed back and applied throughout the community and even across the ENTIRE US military.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Watch this:


A few points about what the US Military but specifically SF community learned after the Battle for Mogadishu (black hawk down incident)

- importance of lighter plate carriers with front and back plates
- the need for their CSAR teams to have emergency rescue equipment like the jaws of life, now ALL their CSAR (PJ?) crews have this as mandatory equipment
- the use of NODs, specially the flip down helmet mounted kind, they want to “own the night”
- Operators have their own emergency provisions depending on the nature of the mission (a “go bag”) in case they face a similar situation again where they are behind enemy lines
- it seems like the entire emergency medical treatment process was built in this battle as well as the tiny things like how to fold a tourniquet.


This was all from ONE battle 25+ years ago now but the lessons are still tangible and have been applied US military wide and for their entire SF community, I’m sure there’s plenty more lessons they didn’t share.

And Indian SF have been fighting the exact same fight in the exact same way for how many decades now? How many battles have they had? How many encounters? What’s changed? What new equipment has emerged?


THIS is the difference between leaders and followers. When Indian units do get new gear these days it’s almost solely becuase they are blindly imitating a Western unit like those amateur airsofters do.

This is also about Institutional culture and not merely money. If you gave Indian SFs per capita spending equivalent of US SOFs do we really think this would make them a more dynamicand responsive entity? US SOFs have an incredible feedback mechanism,lessons learnt in the battlefield are fed back and applied throughout the community and even across the ENTIRE US military.
Yes there are no excuses.

What did Para and Marcos learn from Sri Lanka?From pampore?from hafruda and lolab for 30 years?

What transition drills,room intervention drills have we invented?

What equipment have we made based on those requirements?

Ballistic shields are the basics of CQB.We realised that post 2010.

And now soldiers say..oh the shield saved my day from a grenade thrown at me in interviews..Thats how it is sir.

Sorry to say most infantry soldiers in India, pakistan china and these region dont even know to hold a pistol or to do a good fire and move shooting drill with transitioning.


If we spent the same amount we spent in Siachen every year on SF and IF which is a big IF the SF were proactive we would have the best equipped SF in the region of Asia.
 

aditya g

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Of Course they train for every possible scenario. After all they have PARA SF operators on deputation in SAG with combat diving skills so they are frequently sent for para jumps & combat diving refreshment courses.
In my opinion, having Combat Free Fallers in NSG is point less. If ever the situation were to occur, where I need to para drop into a counter terrorist operation, I can look into the many Para SF, SFF and Para Airborne units before I will turn to NSG. Now many Para deputees will already have CFF and para wings from their parent regiment but thats at individual's level.

I can somewhat understand the need for divers, due to experience in Op Bluestar (which sowed the seed for NSG) - but again for a complex marine op like that Para SF and MARCOS are available.

Some overlap in capabilities is inevitable, but if everyone tries to be everything, you will loose focus on developing a necessary specialisation.

Similarly, for a Pampore type situation you need NSG, and not Para SF.
 

aditya g

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QRT was always organised by IAF with hands available on the base, if i can put it simply. This was in addition to the DSC guards.

Btw who was the first to inflict casualty in Pathankot attack?

Sepoy Jagdish Chand was making tea in a cookhouse at the base on the morning of 2 January when six terrorists stormed in, guns blazing, and killed four of his fellow jawans. Chand, a professional wrestler, ran at the attackers unarmed and tackled one of them. He grappled with the terrorist, turned his own rifle against him and shot him in the head. That act of bravery cost the 48-year-old sepoy his life.

I feel we have never developed the DSC to its full capability.

In Pathankot, the fidayeen were also engaged by Hony. Capt Fateh Singh ex Dogra Regiment with Gold Medallist in sharp shooting in CWG. This was no rookie soldier and he knew is shooting. He was on guard duty in any case - so he had at least a minimal level of fitness for the job.

Had luck not abandoned him the attackers would have been sorted there and then.

Imagine if Fateh Singh and light weight kevlar armour, and light weight small arms at their disposal. Nothing very fancy, some quality kit and maybe a night vision optic. @WARREN SS calculated the cost of equipping a SF soldier - how about a DSC jawan?

I clench my fist at the thought of how we squander away what he have and thirst for what we don't. Remember it was a retired army jawan who wrestled down Qasab as well.

The AF QRT was CT/CI base security. The Garuds were raised for way way more. Though the QRT duty has become their primary deployment
 

aditya g

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At present DSC jawans are kitted out with a uniform similar to a constable in the police + an INSAS assault rifle, previously a SLR.

I would provide DSC jawans with:

- 9mm Sidearm + ammo
- Amogh Carbine or JVPC, or even a MX4 Storm
- Lightweight helmet - does not have to be a heavy bullet proof one
- Good quality camo uniform
- Lightweight bullet resistant vests - again, does not have to be heavy with max protection
- Handheld radio
- Lightweight shoes
- + typical police kit such as torch, first aid kit
 

abingdonboy

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QRT was always organised by IAF with hands available on the base, if i can put it simply. This was in addition to the DSC guards.

Btw who was the first to inflict casualty in Pathankot attack?

Sepoy Jagdish Chand was making tea in a cookhouse at the base on the morning of 2 January when six terrorists stormed in, guns blazing, and killed four of his fellow jawans. Chand, a professional wrestler, ran at the attackers unarmed and tackled one of them. He grappled with the terrorist, turned his own rifle against him and shot him in the head. That act of bravery cost the 48-year-old sepoy his life.

I feel we have never developed the DSC to its full capability.

In Pathankot, the fidayeen were also engaged by Hony. Capt Fateh Singh ex Dogra Regiment with Gold Medallist in sharp shooting in CWG. This was no rookie soldier and he knew is shooting. He was on guard duty in any case - so he had at least a minimal level of fitness for the job.

Had luck not abandoned him the attackers would have been sorted there and then.

Imagine if Fateh Singh and light weight kevlar armour, and light weight small arms at their disposal. Nothing very fancy, some quality kit and maybe a night vision optic. @WARREN SS calculated the cost of equipping a SF soldier - how about a DSC jawan?

I clench my fist at the thought of how we squander away what he have and thirst for what we don't. Remember it was a retired army jawan who wrestled down Qasab as well.
100% DSC need to be given just the basic equipment on par with say Mumbai QRT.

look up USAF security forces, they aren’t equipped especially special but it’s sufficient.

It doesn’t seem like there’s any priority within MoD to upgrade DSC with such basic capabilities sadly
 

Waanar

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At present DSC jawans are kitted out with a uniform similar to a constable in the police + an INSAS assault rifle, previously a SLR.

I would provide DSC jawans with:

- 9mm Sidearm + ammo
- Amogh Carbine or JVPC, or even a MX4 Storm
- Lightweight helmet - does not have to be a heavy bullet proof one
- Good quality camo uniform
- Lightweight bullet resistant vests - again, does not have to be heavy with max protection
- Handheld radio
- Lightweight shoes
- + typical police kit such as torch, first aid kit
With the expansion of NSG to a pan India commando force, it'd make sense to hand over a contingent to sensitive airbases (have heard it's already happening).
In fact, it'd make a LOT of sense and NSG would actually be... You know... With a purpose without us getting attacked.

May also make IAF finally think about nudging GARUDs out of that role.
 

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