Indian Special Forces (archived)

[ManhattanProject]

IAF Garuds during Bandipora CASO June 1

first time seeing garuds with patka

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Garuds look damn "Tacticool" usually in photo ops events, what happens to all that uniformity in real ops.

 

[Gessler]

All You Need 60,000 $(Rs 4525290) Per Soldier For Tier-1 Gear Matched With Any Tier-1 Force

For 3000 Operatives Of Armed Forces Special Operations Division (AFSOD)

To Look like This
1500 Crores in Indian currency or 200 Million $

View attachment 49346

About the cost of just 1 of these -

A lot lesser in fact if we go with mostly local suppliers.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

proper mag doublers instead of taped like was seen with “that” SF team and their M4s.

I’ve heard Garuds in JK are much more equipment focused and I think images of them deployed highlight this. Almost all of them have proper plate carriers. Just want to see them with high cuts and integrated comns then I can die happy.

+ also hear Garuds train more with each operator having individual comns.



won’t need a different chest rig IMO- usual approach to having double stacked mags is you have The twin mag on your weapon and once you’re through the 50-60 rounds on the rifle you switch to the singles from your chest. This is how NSG does it.


The assault team didn’t seem to have double stacked mags but the over watch did which makes sense- the added weight on the back isn’t desirable for an assaulter imo and the Tavor is a very very well balanced rifle. It is designed specifically to allow a soldier to hold it comfortably resting on a wall in front of him at a checkpoint for hours. Another mag at the back will throw this off.

+ it’s interesting that Garuds are emphasising more loaded mags, I remember that drum mag RFI for their Tavors too. Seems JK lessons are trickling in and they are responding. Whether these are the correct solutions I can’t say but it’s very positive to see these experiments going on and evolution taking place. Like I’ve said constantly it seems PARA SF have stood still for 10+ years, especially the deployed teams. Maybe it will take Garuds and MARCOs in theatre to get them to wake up.

Bro Para are illiterates when it comes to such things.

Their high headedness is the reason for all this.

Sometimes i fail to understand why do we have to import such things.Doesnt it make common sense when you are deployed in combat that you need some tools?

Even Early man made tools!

Then we have to rely on tools made by Israelis and Americans and import them?

What did we learn from the battlefield?Dont we know we need a fucking shield if we get into urban warfare?

Is a ballistic shield impossible to invent?

Dont we know we need suppressors?Do we know what suppressors are for?

Do we think after spending so much time in combat that transition drills are important,etc etc etc

I mean what is the use of combat if it doesnt help you develop tools and tactics.

After spending so much time in combat the israelis had to teach Para proper room interventions.

AF and Navy on an average employ much more educationally qualified people across all platforms.

Navy people have the best team spirit and comradrie in my opinion.

I think if we deploy them in large numbers in Kashmir we will have positive results.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

All You Need 60,000 $(Rs 4525290) Per Soldier For Tier-1 Gear Matched With Any Tier-1 Force

For 3000 Operatives Of Armed Forces Special Operations Division (AFSOD)

To Look like This
1500 Crores in Indian currency or 200 Million $

View attachment 49346

Hahahaha

Bro its not that we are poor

Its that we have to spend even more in Siachen equipment

Siachen equipment is simple but imported

Why is it not made in India and imported after being too costly


Blink blink


You will get the answer which is also the reason so many excess tanks are bought from Ruskies.

 

[rkhanna]

Which depends on the distance you are at.

At close ranges switching to a secondary weapon is more fast than changing magizines.

Absolutely . I was highlighting (from my own 2 paisa) the need to adopt new shooting drills - whether mag changes or weapon transitions.

Double tapped magazines like I mentioned only serve initial contact and then efficiency degrades. Double tapped magazines also unbalance the gun.

The reason I mentioned different chest rigs for faster mag changes because the current chest rigs (see picture) are fine for all other military missions but serve a deficiency in MOUT and urban assault. The pouches and rigs are loose and move around on the chesr and the pouches have flaps on then. Seconds do get lost.

 

[operatorgrumby]

Guys, ever wonder if SSS Defence decides to make an AR-15 based rifle for the SOF operators of India,keeping the design of the HK416 but actually making improvement over it. Just like the CAR816 but unlike it, no cost cutting here.

Something like this,

Here this is a HK416 DEVGRU Build,

This is the CAR 816 that we are going to purchase,

Or if not the HK416s improvement then some sort of SBR like the DANIEL DEFENSE Mk18,

That would actually be awesome

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

 

[Gessler]

View attachment 49372View attachment 49373

Who is this?

 

[WARREN SS]

I remember looking up and calculating the cost of top of the line gear and we all know individual orders cost far more than bulk but, by my estimates, the cost went to no more than 25 lakh INR.
This was with Dual tube NVG. The costliest gear SOFs use currently is GPNVGs. That alone is like 1/3 of the entire cost and would raise it to 35 lakhs, give or take.

Bhai, don't give GPNVG but at least get them the rest. We have good homegrown companies too...

Yes we can reduce Cost by 40% if we Reduce order of GPNVG-18
let's say 1000 and Use it in Special Ops
But it is required if You want your SF operatives to be Top notch Compared to
Other Tier-1

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Who is this?

Himanshu Deswal PTK Trainer of NSG & PARA SF

 

[rkhanna]

Guys, ever wonder if SSS Defence decides to make an AR-15 based rifle for the SOF operators of India,keeping the design of the HK416 but actually making improvement over it. Just like the CAR816 but unlike it, no cost cutting here.

Something like this,

Here this is a HK416 DEVGRU Build,

This is the CAR 816 that we are going to purchase,

Or if not the HK416s improvement then some sort of SBR like the DANIEL DEFENSE Mk18,

That would actually be awesome

The CAR816 is not a cost cutting excersise. It is an improvement over both the HK416 and the sIG716.. the engineers who designed and developed (name of patent at HK) were hired by the UAE to build not only the Gun but also the factory from scratch to meet the same QC standards. The Improvement of the CAR816 is the fact that is optimised for desert use. The DevGru HKs all have to be modded by their internal armoury and gunsmiths to improve them.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

first time seeing garuds with patka

Another one

SOG of Hajin Police & 13 RR battalion with whom Garuds were deployed suggested them to use PATKA after loss in initial ops.

 

[fire starter]

 

[operatorgrumby]

The CAR816 is not a cost cutting excersise. It is an improvement over both the HK416 and the sIG716.. the engineers who designed and developed (name of patent at HK) were hired by the UAE to build not only the Gun but also the factory from scratch to meet the same QC standards. The Improvement of the CAR816 is the fact that is optimised for desert use. The DevGru HKs all have to be modded by their internal armoury and gunsmiths to improve them.

There will be always someone contradicting your opinion.But the original thread was never about CAR 816 Quality and Cost issue though....

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Standing position means they are using it as an Assault Rifle. DMR ya LMG requirement hota to usually bipod deploy karte hai.

Opinion based on pictures available

GARUDs

PARA SF

But yeah exceptions too. Garud at M-17 crash site.

 

[abingdonboy]

All You Need 60,000 $(Rs 4525290) Per Soldier For Tier-1 Gear Matched With Any Tier-1 Force

For 3000 Operatives Of Armed Forces Special Operations Division (AFSOD)

To Look like This
1500 Crores in Indian currency or 200 Million $

View attachment 49346

Utter peanuts.

Money is clearly not the issue.

Blame Police culture ... appear at the scene when action is over...

what does police culture have to do with this? More like petty ego culture of the IA. NSG have foreword deployed assets to JK, they can only take part in ops when called in.

Another one
View attachment 49387
SOG of Hajin Police & 13 RR battalion with whom Garuds were deployed suggested them to use PATKA after loss in initial ops.

This is probably the biggest issue I have with Garuds- using patkas and ACHs without mounts. A lack of night fighting expertise and employment is perhaps the BIGGEST shortcoming in Indian SF today.

Western (particularly American) SFs have the phrase, they “own the night”.

the entire point of military tactics is to gain an advantage over your opponents but again and again Indian mil tactics are to create almost parity between themselves and their adversaries.

Every time there have inputs of terrorists in a location they should be hitting them under the cover of darkness. SFs are meant to be a scalpel instead what do we see? CASO in broad daylight and every top dick and Harry thrown at the scene.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Utter peanuts.

Money is clearly not the issue.



what does police culture have to do with this? More like petty ego culture of the IA. NSG have foreword deployed assets to JK, they can only take part in ops when called in.



This is probably the biggest issue I have with Garuds- using patkas and ACHs without mounts. A lack of night fighting expertise and employment is perhaps the BIGGEST shortcoming in Indian SF today.

Western (particularly American) SFs have the phrase, they “own the night”.

the entire point of military tactics is to gain an advantage over your opponents but again and again Indian mil tactics are to create almost parity between themselves and their adversaries.

Every time there have inputs of terrorists in a location they should be hitting them under the cover of darkness. SFs are meant to be a scalpel instead what do we see? CASO in broad daylight and every top dick and Harry thrown at the scene.

I was watching a show Patriot on Republic tv which is shot very recently.

In one of the RR shows they said very proudly narrating an incident that "we waited for the first light which is the sop"

If you have to conquer your enemy you have to own the night and hit when they are blind.

Light gives both the party equal chance to hit..if you can see them they can too.

We need a lot of nv related equipment and gear.

 

[Floydian]

Himanshu Deswal PTK Trainer of NSG & PARA SF

Does he himself have any defence background by any chance?

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Guys, ever wonder if SSS Defence decides to make an AR-15 based rifle for the SOF operators of India,keeping the design of the HK416 but actually making improvement over it. Just like the CAR816 but unlike it, no cost cutting here.

Something like this,

Here this is a HK416 DEVGRU Build,

This is the CAR 816 that we are going to purchase,

Or if not the HK416s improvement then some sort of SBR like the DANIEL DEFENSE Mk18,

That would actually be awesome

SSS in partnership with Lewis Machine & Tool Company(LMT) had already fielded an AR-15 style assault rifle for one of the Indian Army tenders, but at the last moment the US played spoilsport with the ITAR and then SSS decided to pursue their own design. I had received this clarification from the CEO of SSS Defence, Vivek Krishnan himself on Twitter but I am not able to find that tweet.