Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

This is a very simplistic take on it. Ofcourse SOFs are meant to be hard buggers. They are taught to survive in the jungle and make do with that they have. And as Vivek Jacob said, as of now our combat scenario demands long range reccee patrols and hunting parties. American SF if they do indeed have that issue, would face problems. It's really not that hard to imagine.

Not every op is a swoop in, go rambo and leave. Sometimes you are in it for the long haul.

Americans are good at what they have..and if they have it who are we to say they cannot do without it?

But as far as we are concerned we lack in some things technologically.

 

[rkhanna]

Americans are good at what they have..and if they have it who are we to say they cannot do without it?

But as far as we are concerned we lack in some things technologically.

Think of it from this perspective. They are on a training deployment cycle. What's ghe point of risking dengue / malaria / jaundice which will put them out of combat operations for a month.

Not worth the risk.

 

[Killbot]

Think of it from this perspective. They are on a training deployment cycle. What's ghe point of risking dengue / malaria / jaundice which will put them out of combat operations for a month.

Not worth the risk.

I'm pretty sure even our guys drink mineral water during missions if they have it.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Americans are good at what they have..and if they have it who are we to say they cannot do without it?

But as far as we are concerned we lack in some things technologically.

I didn't say they cannot do it. A man who has trained along side them did.

 

[JConline]

So I was watching some SF content on YT when I stumbled upon a Para SF documentary by one of the news networks. In that documentary the personnel were being asked about their gear and stuff and one of the operators talked about the monocular NVGs in use by the SF. He said that the advantage of using the monocular because of which they shifted from PVS 7 style NVDs to PVS 14 style NVDs is that in a CQB situation or any situation for that matter, with a monocular, you are able to observe and process a lot more because your each of your eye is seeing two pictures.
Although I understand the advantages that dual tube or PNVGs have over single tube NVDs, I found his reason pretty convincing. Maybe this is why, the Army is sticking to the monocular design with the Arjun Thermal Sight.
I'm not sure about the exact pricing but considering that Thermal sights are substantially pricier than NVDs, the Arjun sights are pretty closely priced to the dual tube NVDs made by Tonni, so I think if the Army wanted to shift to dual tube NVDs, it could but they are deliberately sticking to the monocular platform.
Note : This is not an attempt to justify the otherwise outdated loadout in use by the SF but just a point that I found interesting. All your opinion is welcome.

 

[AZTEC]

Think of it from this perspective. They are on a training deployment cycle. What's ghe point of risking dengue / malaria / jaundice which will put them out of combat operations for a month.

*Ahem ahem*... ‘Dengue / Malaria’ ?!!

Dengue and Malaria are spread by mosquitoes, not by drinking water.

The thing I wanted to highlight is that the immune system of Americans is weak in comparison to Indians. Even American SOF apparently have an inferior immune system. This made me giggle so I shared it here.

When you train, you train for the worst. Especially if you’re a SF operator.
From this perspective, drinking Bisleri water while training for high-altitude isn’t a good thing to do, is it?

Further reading:

Nature India

Nature India is a one-stop site for information on Indian science. The website, serving the scientific community of the world’s largest democracy, provides information on jobs, events, the best research and science news from India.

www.natureasia.com

 

[ALBY]

So I was watching some SF content on YT when I stumbled upon a Para SF documentary by one of the news networks. In that documentary the personnel were being asked about their gear and stuff and one of the operators talked about the monocular NVGs in use by the SF. He said that the advantage of using the monocular because of which they shifted from PVS 7 style NVDs to PVS 14 style NVDs is that in a CQB situation or any situation for that matter, with a monocular, you are able to observe and process a lot more because your each of your eye is seeing two pictures.
Although I understand the advantages that dual tube or PNVGs have over single tube NVDs, I found his reason pretty convincing. Maybe this is why, the Army is sticking to the monocular design with the Arjun Thermal Sight.
I'm not sure about the exact pricing but considering that Thermal sights are substantially pricier than NVDs, the Arjun sights are pretty closely priced to the dual tube NVDs made by Tonni, so I think if the Army wanted to shift to dual tube NVDs, it could but they are deliberately sticking to the monocular platform.
Note : This is not an attempt to justify the otherwise outdated loadout in use by the SF but just a point that I found interesting. All your opinion is welcome.

Can they openly say that they dont have perfect gear which means there is something wrong in the system.
If gone by that logic all the western SF's would have recerted back to mono tubes as they couldnt see the things in 'pitch black' which they could see when they were using mono tubes back in 80s.

 

[Killbot]

So I was watching some SF content on YT when I stumbled upon a Para SF documentary by one of the news networks. In that documentary the personnel were being asked about their gear and stuff and one of the operators talked about the monocular NVGs in use by the SF. He said that the advantage of using the monocular because of which they shifted from PVS 7 style NVDs to PVS 14 style NVDs is that in a CQB situation or any situation for that matter, with a monocular, you are able to observe and process a lot more because your each of your eye is seeing two pictures.
Although I understand the advantages that dual tube or PNVGs have over single tube NVDs, I found his reason pretty convincing. Maybe this is why, the Army is sticking to the monocular design with the Arjun Thermal Sight.
I'm not sure about the exact pricing but considering that Thermal sights are substantially pricier than NVDs, the Arjun sights are pretty closely priced to the dual tube NVDs made by Tonni, so I think if the Army wanted to shift to dual tube NVDs, it could but they are deliberately sticking to the monocular platform.
Note : This is not an attempt to justify the otherwise outdated loadout in use by the SF but just a point that I found interesting. All your opinion is welcome.

Army is sticking with Arjun due to cost imo. But with monocular NVGs, you sacrifice peripheral vision, which is probably the most important thing in CQB. Thats why Americans are spending $43,000 more per operator, so that they can have a larger field of view. (Quad tube NVG)

They're trying to replace those mono tubes now anyway.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

So I was watching some SF content on YT when I stumbled upon a Para SF documentary by one of the news networks. In that documentary the personnel were being asked about their gear and stuff and one of the operators talked about the monocular NVGs in use by the SF. He said that the advantage of using the monocular because of which they shifted from PVS 7 style NVDs to PVS 14 style NVDs is that in a CQB situation or any situation for that matter, with a monocular, you are able to observe and process a lot more because your each of your eye is seeing two pictures.
Although I understand the advantages that dual tube or PNVGs have over single tube NVDs, I found his reason pretty convincing. Maybe this is why, the Army is sticking to the monocular design with the Arjun Thermal Sight.
I'm not sure about the exact pricing but considering that Thermal sights are substantially pricier than NVDs, the Arjun sights are pretty closely priced to the dual tube NVDs made by Tonni, so I think if the Army wanted to shift to dual tube NVDs, it could but they are deliberately sticking to the monocular platform.
Note : This is not an attempt to justify the otherwise outdated loadout in use by the SF but just a point that I found interesting. All your opinion is welcome.

These days on the forum and on YouTube nothing that an Army officer speaks surprises me.

 

[rkhanna]

*Ahem ahem*... ‘Dengue / Malaria’ ?!!

Dengue and Malaria are spread by mosquitoes, not by drinking water.

The thing I wanted to highlight is that the immune system of Americans is weak in comparison to Indians. Even American SOF apparently have an inferior immune system. This made me giggle so I shared it here.

When you train, you train for the worst. Especially if you’re a SF operator.
From this perspective, drinking Bisleri water while training for high-altitude isn’t a good thing to do, is it?

Further reading:

Nature India

Nature India is a one-stop site for information on Indian science. The website, serving the scientific community of the world’s largest democracy, provides information on jobs, events, the best research and science news from India.

www.natureasia.com

I was being generic to make a point that's all.

What do you think Indian troops do when they deploy to Africa ?

Having a stronger / weaker immune system is a function of the strength of the economy and general health and hygiene standards of that country. Easily compensated with better healthcare systems etc. A person born and brought up in south Bombay will have a weaker immune system than someone from a village in UP.

Despite this "handicap' Americans continue to deploy across the globe

 

[GunDeGunday]

I was being generic to make a point that's all.

What do you think Indian troops do when they deploy to Africa ?

Having a stronger / weaker immune system is a function of the strength of the economy and general health and hygiene standards of that country. Easily compensated with better healthcare systems etc. A person born and brought up in south Bombay will have a weaker immune system than someone from a village in UP.

Despite this "handicap' Americans continue to deploy across the globe

The romanticism of something as awful as poverty is really insane. "Oh look, we are poor therefore we are tougher and more advantaged!"

Going by that logic we should all be afraid of Africa's special forces and make them the world hegemony since they must be the most powerful.

 

[rkhanna]

These days on the forum and on YouTube nothing that an Army officer speaks surprises me.

Our army is only a representation of the realities of Indian society at large

 

[AZTEC]

The romanticism of something as awful as poverty is really insane. "Oh look, we are poor therefore we are tougher and more advantaged!"

Going by that logic we should all be afraid of Africa's special forces and make them the world hegemony since they must be the most powerful.

I am sure you didn't click on the link I provided in my last post.
Because if you did, you will not be calling me "insane".
You are not only throwing straw man arguments but also engaging in ad hominem.

Indians didn't exactly acquire better immunity by poverty. Even the Sentinelese who live in the Andaman islands are poor; but they don't have a good immunity.

Instead, the more correct reason for Indians' immunity is natural selection to survive the environmental challenges during their pre-historic coastal migrations from Africa, as per that research report.

I feel really bad teaching biology on a SF thread. My original post was intended for amusement, not serious debate. Let's not continue this discussion please.

 

[armyofhind]

So I was watching some SF content on YT when I stumbled upon a Para SF documentary by one of the news networks. In that documentary the personnel were being asked about their gear and stuff and one of the operators talked about the monocular NVGs in use by the SF. He said that the advantage of using the monocular because of which they shifted from PVS 7 style NVDs to PVS 14 style NVDs is that in a CQB situation or any situation for that matter, with a monocular, you are able to observe and process a lot more because your each of your eye is seeing two pictures.
Although I understand the advantages that dual tube or PNVGs have over single tube NVDs, I found his reason pretty convincing. Maybe this is why, the Army is sticking to the monocular design with the Arjun Thermal Sight.
I'm not sure about the exact pricing but considering that Thermal sights are substantially pricier than NVDs, the Arjun sights are pretty closely priced to the dual tube NVDs made by Tonni, so I think if the Army wanted to shift to dual tube NVDs, it could but they are deliberately sticking to the monocular platform.
Note : This is not an attempt to justify the otherwise outdated loadout in use by the SF but just a point that I found interesting. All your opinion is welcome.

Link to the said documentary please?

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

I was being generic to make a point that's all.

What do you think Indian troops do when they deploy to Africa ?

Having a stronger / weaker immune system is a function of the strength of the economy and general health and hygiene standards of that country. Easily compensated with better healthcare systems etc. A person born and brought up in south Bombay will have a weaker immune system than someone from a village in UP.

Despite this "handicap' Americans continue to deploy across the globe

Why are you so defensive about it though?

 

[GunDeGunday]

I am sure you didn't click on the link I provided in my last post.
Because if you did, you will not be calling me "insane".

My dear friend, I never called you insane nor did I quote you or attack you in any way. I simply said this phenomenon(thereby not making it ad hominem) that exists where we associate poverty with toughness is really insane.

This was in respect to the comment the person I quoted who was mentioning how Americans are managing quite well whenever they're deployed despite these "disadvantages".

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

The romanticism of something as awful as poverty is really insane. "Oh look, we are poor therefore we are tougher and more advantaged!"

Going by that logic we should all be afraid of Africa's special forces and make them the world hegemony since they must be the most powerful.

Pretty poor argument. No one is romanticizing poverty here. Please have some coherence in your thoughts before attempting to respond.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Also folks who think poverty as a background for soldiers in the army is endemic to India, are clueless about general demographics of armies in general.

 

[rkhanna]

Why are you so defensive about it though?

Defensive ? How so? You are correct about dengue / malaria. And I was just clarifying my statement written in haste.

The rest of the post was just giving context on your assertion on "inferior" you immune system of western people. Them being in military or not is a moot point

anyways OT . Let's move on

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]