Indian Special Forces (archived)

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abingdonboy

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Something weird here.

US army SF (from 1st SFG) training with MARCOs in India and even though it hasn’t been reported so far, Philippines SF and a fourth country’s SF that I can’t make out.

Not sure if this is separate to the 3 week long US SOF-NSG drills going on in Hyderabad right now
 

armyofhind

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Something weird here.

US army SF (from 1st SFG) training with MARCOs in India and even though it hasn’t been reported so far, Philippines SF and a fourth country’s SF that I can’t make out.

Not sure if this is separate to the 3 week long US SOF-NSG drills going on in Hyderabad right now
The fourth one looks like Kopassus. I may be wrong though.
 

Unknowncommando 2

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Something weird here.

US army SF (from 1st SFG) training with MARCOs in India and even though it hasn’t been reported so far, Philippines SF and a fourth country’s SF that I can’t make out.

Not sure if this is separate to the 3 week long US SOF-NSG drills going on in Hyderabad right now
It's from RIMPAC 2018 Exercise bro
P7H7BF.jpg
P7H7BH.jpg
 

abingdonboy

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Hopefully Marcos quarter masters are getting to look at the kit quality deferential and kick it up the chain of command
Hopefully next time MARCOs have a decent kit upgrade- helmets, comns and weapons. Tragic seeing them as the only ones without high cuts and carbines. I don’t know what they are thinking using the MP5 outside of CQB.
 

armyofhind

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Hopefully next time MARCOs have a decent kit upgrade- helmets, comns and weapons. Tragic seeing them as the only ones without high cuts and carbines. I don’t know what they are thinking using the MP5 outside of CQB.
Looks to me like this was a CQB exercise only. There's a building in the background. Could be a kill house.
They already do have Tavors and their AK-103s had it been a field exercise with longer sightlines.

What seems to be happening outside is a medical procedures drill.
 

rkhanna

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Looks to me like this was a CQB exercise only. There's a building in the background. Could be a kill house.
They already do have Tavors and their AK-103s had it been a field exercise with longer sightlines.

What seems to be happening outside is a medical procedures drill.
Modern day CQB with 9mm? Even The NSG moved to 556 with 13inch barrels on their Sigs
 

vampyrbladez

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Modern day CQB with 9mm? Even The NSG moved to 556 with 13inch barrels on their Sigs
9 mm is useful to not penetrate wall and kill people in adjacent room. Thus even USSOCOM uses MP5 till date or a Colt 9mm Carbine.
 

armyofhind

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Modern day CQB with 9mm? Even The NSG moved to 556 with 13inch barrels on their Sigs
Negative.
NSG uses a mix of both Mp5A3s along with SIGs.
If you observe whatever vids are available for SAG, you'll notice that the guys on outer perimeters have the SIGs, while the actual assaulters go in with Mp5s.

9mm Parabellum is much maligned, but still is an adequate round for CQB within 50 mtrs in my opinion, especially against unarmoured tangos. Plus there's no disputing the accuracy and reliability of the Mp5.

However I still think they should transition to Mp7 for CQB within buildings.
 

vampyrbladez

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Read the article. This is for close protection duties.

All top Western (even Eastern) SOFs use 5.56mm for CQB these days, ridiculous to see NSG and MARCOs with MP5s in this day and age.
MARCOS do use Tavor and NSG has Sig 553SB for 5.56 mm. Once Sig 716 G arrives, they will be giddy for AR 15 style firearms.
 

abingdonboy

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MARCOS do use Tavor and NSG has Sig 553SB for 5.56 mm. Once Sig 716 G arrives, they will be giddy for AR 15 style firearms.
NSG’s main weapon is still the MP5, they’ve introduced the SIG more into their units but about 80% of their operators use the MP5 as their standard issue.

No real indication that the 716s will got to unite like NSG, besides they have ample exposure to these style of weapons, they just don’t seem interested in making the switch away from 9mm for whatever reason
NSG started using KRISS Vector .45 for CQB, hopefully they are acquired for Marcos, Garuds and Para SF as well, should be ideal for hard hitting CQB.
Pretty much no respected units use the KRISS and I’m sure there is a reason for this.
 

rkhanna

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Negative.
NSG uses a mix of both Mp5A3s along with SIGs.
If you observe whatever vids are available for SAG, you'll notice that the guys on outer perimeters have the SIGs, while the actual assaulters go in with Mp5s.

9mm Parabellum is much maligned, but still is an adequate round for CQB within 50 mtrs in my opinion, especially against unarmoured tangos. Plus there's no disputing the accuracy and reliability of the Mp5.

However I still think they should transition to Mp7 for CQB within buildings.
The reason NSG continues to use the MP5 is because

1. We have shit loads of them
2. Only weapon (SMG) we have for concealed duties
3. We (in India) have never understood the concepts of shorter barrels and matching them with different types of ammo (propellants )
4. Primary suppressed SMG we have for breaching duties


The modern threat perception has changed even within HRT the 9mm cannot penetrate body armour

11inch barrels of AR15s with integral suppressors and low velocity ammo is far superior


The ONLY place the 9mm still holds sway is for aircraft takeovers (with subsonic rounds)

Lastly . Each assault team is a mix of MP5 and Sigs. And Sigs of different barrell lenght.

As someone stated the .45 calibre is already making inroads

PS you mentioned 50ms accuracy . Almost no built up CQB happens within 50ms it's usually within 10-20 feet on average.

If you are looking at 50 mtrs then you are in open ground and the MP5 starts getting pretty useless after the first 50mts
 

armyofhind

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1. We have shit loads of them
not necessarily. Now, under the current dispensation, the elite forces atleast have access to any kind of weapon they want. I'm sure that avoiding changing a primary weapon to get just a slight edge in combat, when you CAN get the job done with the present one is far more prudent than changing the primary weapon and incurring heavy costs first of all in training all troopers proficiently on them, and secondly of introducing a lead time till the entire force is proficient on the new one. Changing the standard weapon for the unit is a decision the top leadership has to make, and they have to take these factors into account, irrespective of the gear demands at the trooper levels.

The modern threat perception has changed even within HRT the 9mm cannot penetrate body armour
I mentioned the same in my post, that short of penetrating body armour, the 9mm Parabellum has sufficient stopping power, especially when combined with Mozambique drill type shooting patterns, two to centre mass, one to the head, or even double taps.

As someone stated the .45 calibre is already making inroads
.45 cal is no better at penetrating body armour than 9mm.

PS you mentioned 50ms accuracy . Almost no built up CQB happens within 50ms it's usually within 10-20 feet on average.

If you are looking at 50 mtrs then you are in open ground and the MP5 starts getting pretty useless after the first 50mts
yeah that's what I said. CQB happens well within 50 mtrs especially in the kind of CQB SAG is supposed to do. So an Mp5 is well suited for that. At 10-20 ft, an Mp5 will fire pretty much at the exact spot at which it aimed, without any bullet drop at all.
Controllability in rapid fire and maneuverability in tight quarters is also a factor to be taken into account for a CQB specialised force.


Like I said, if transition is to happen then why stop at SIG, go the long haul and go for HK416 with 10 inch barrels. Its what ST6 use for CQB along with Mp7.
OR better still, get the X95 which affords all the benefits of the armor penetration of 5.56mm, along with the tight controllability of a bullpup.
 
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