Indian Special Forces (archived)

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Singh

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Saya, that's an MP10, not MP5. I have seen MP5 wielding CISF troopers at Rajiv Chowk metro station too.
Thanks sandeep for correction, BTW at Rajiv Chowk, they had INSAS and AKs, i watch it every day, never saw MP5 with them.
The correct nomenclature would be HKMP5 or HKMP5/10.
The difference between HKMP5 and HKMP5/10 is of calibre, I can't make it out though. Another point, HKMP5/10's production has been discontinued and is fairly rare.

I think its HK MP5K (K is German for Kurz or Short, something like Mercedes SLK and CLK) using 9mm calibre rounds.

Never seen metro guards with HKs, though seen Airport guards with HKs.

I think CISF and other indian security forces should use modern sub machine carbine. Our ARDE MSMC is better than or similar to MP5,MP10 or FN F2000.

this will come in due time, i was allowed to inspect this carbine, great weapon i must say, hope to see it will all our forces very soon.
It would be fun if someone could do a review of both of them !
 

sandeepdg

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pmaitra

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Indian special forces induct Israeli rifles

India's navy and air force have begun inducting Israeli Tavor-21 (TAR-21) 5.56 mm assault rifles and Galil 7.62 x 54 mm semi-automatic sniper rifles into their special forces. Indian Navy (IN) officials told Jane's that India's Marine Commandos were being issued with 500 Israel Weapon Industries (IWI)-made TAR-21s and 30 Galil sniper rifles acquired for INR170 million (USD3.7 million)

Source: E-mail alert from Jane's Defence Weekly
 

chex3009

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Force One Commando Unit of Mumbai

Force One Commando Unit of Mumbai







 

shuvo@y2k10

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what is the need to go for m4a1 carbines when the paras already operate tar-21.i think think the mp7 or the msmc will be the ideal choice for cabine as these have one hand firing capability unlike the m4a1 carbine.
 

Shaitan

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this will come in due time, i was allowed to inspect this carbine, great weapon i must say, hope to see it will all our forces very soon.
Do you know when it will be given to Indian forces? I heard it was in its last trial, and to be produced by Ordnance factory.
 

Tshering22

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I wonder how many camouflages we have. Even within the Army, their uniforms are like a rainbow! Someone is wearing the old patterns, someone some exotic brownish semi-desert, and others continue to wear the new adopted jungle pattern. Why is it that there is no uniform pattern for the security forces of a specific region? I still notice that Rajasthan based soldiers have the typical old green camo pattern while only a handful have the new desert pattern.

Same goes for the soldiers stationed here in east. They have a rainbow of different forest camo patterns.

Would it kill the MOD to make uniform MARPAT pattern for the entire Armed tri-services based on their region's posting? I mean China, NATO, USA, Russia, Japanese, Koreans etc ALL have uniform patterns for the regions their soldiers are based. Ours is totally rainbowed!
 

Kunal Biswas

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I like those pants with knee Caps....

But


Sayareakd Sir, I like NCC camo more than this... :)




 
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Rage

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No One for Force One as officers avoid Elite Unit

No One for Force One as officers avoid Elite Unit

By Deeptiman Tiwary
Posted On Monday, February 21, 2011


The Force One farce is dipping abysmally. In November last year, Mumbai Mirror had reported Force One - the elite unit State raised, or rather promised to, in the wake 26/11 attacks - had only a handful of bullet-proof jackets, no hands-free radios, night sights for weapons, stun grenades or even trainers.


Force One, which has a sanctioned strength of 350, is 47 officers short. Sources say
cops avoid the unit because it will hamper their 'extra income'


Now, it has emerged that no officers want to be part of the 'elite' unit. The unit, which has a sanctioned strength of 350, is 47 officers short.

This, despite repeated calls by the State to officers asking them to take up the Force One assignment. Police sources said officers avoid the unit because it will hamper their "extra income".

Most of the vacant positions are awaiting officer-level appointments. Interestingly, there is no dearth of constables volunteering for the job - evident from the fact that only four of over 200 commando posts are vacant.

Regarding officer-level appointments, the force doesn't even have a superintendent. Data obtained from Force One and Maharashtra Police Headquarters state the unit needs a superintendent, deputy superintendent, four assistant inspectors and 15 sub-inspectors.

The sanctioned strength for these categories are one, two, 10 and 34 respectively.

A Force One officer said, "The Home Department is trying to bring in good officers to the unit but there has been little response. Even the incentive of officers being offered a salary hike of one-and-a-half times hasn't worked."

The officer said apart from the extra income part, not many cops were willing to put themselves through the daily grind in the force. He said, "Corrupt cops don't depend on salaries. But in Force One, officers have to undergo daily training and practice regimes. Life can get very tough."



Authorities said forcing policemen to join the force would prove counter-productive. Additional Director General (Establishment) B K Upadhyay, "Only self-driven and highly committed officers can make the force a success. You can't expect an officer who has been forced to join the unit to deliver."

The State dept. did compel officers to fight Naxals in Gadhchiroli, and policemen from that region have shown willingness to join Force One.

In response to a circular issued a year ago regarding appointments to Force One, most applications came in from officers in Gadhchiroli and other Naxal-affected areas. One application came from Solapur, and one from Nashik.

A Home Department official said, "It's a catch-22 situation. We can't pull out cops from Naxal-hit areas and get them in Force One. If we start doing it, there would be no policeman left in Gadchiroli."

Lack of officers is severely denting the force, an officer said. "We need leaders to form strategies and lead commandos.

Officers are also needed to handle administrative work." The State police is now pegging its hopes on the fresh batch of 600 officers coming out of Nashik Police Training Institute in June. Upadhyay said, "These will be young, idealistic and energetic officers.

We hope many of them will be ready to take up the Force One challenge."


http://mumbaimirror.com/printarticl...id=20110221201102210455455362124228e&subsite=
 
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gogbot

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just shows the degree to which our police department is in need of change.

However i don't think it will come in our lifetimes
 

Rage

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You want to see the real degree to which state police departments require change? :



Mumbai cops skip shooting practice

S Ahmed Ali, Aug 6, 2010, 04.22am IST


MUMBAI: In a city where crime is big and terrorists have loved to strike, the police force seems to have taken a dislike to target practice. In the last couple of months, only a handful of personnel have been reporting to the firing range at Ghatkopar every day to train.

The attendance records are so abysmal that Mumbai police commissioner Sanjeev Dayal had to recently issue stern notices to the 90 police stations across the city as well as other branches like the crime branch forcing them to ensure that all personnel clock the annual requisite time-slot of just 20 minutes (once a year) at the firing range. Even encounter specialists were pulled up for not training daily/regularly.

The course is not even very demanding: according to Bombay police service rules, it is mandatory for every policeman to practise long-range (using rifles) and short-range (revolvers and pistols) shooting at the Ghatkopar and Naigaum firing ranges at least for one day in the entire year. In fact, critics say the training should be more rigorous, as currently, a policeman has to put in only 20 minutes of practice for the year. But going by the police chief's admonition, it appears that few cops bother to hone their skills.

Incidentally, in the aftermath of 26/11, cops would drop in at the training ground in droves, with more than 50 to 80 personnel reporting for practice every day. The numbers began to dwindle at the start of 2010. For instance, TOI has learned that on July 26, only nine policemen reported for target practice at Ghatkopar. The following day, the attendance was two. Sources say it's a similar scene at Naigaum.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...kip-shooting-practice/articleshow/6263817.cms


----


And from Bangalore:


4 out of 5 cops can't shoot straight

Debi Prasad Sarangi, Bangalore, August 19, 2010 DH News Service:


If you thought that the police have learnt a lesson from the Mumbai terror strike of 2008, think again.



Take a look at this disturbing statistics- only 20 per cent of the city's policemen can hit the target. And more over, only 4 to 5 per cent of them can hit the bull's eye with a strike rate of hardly 10 per cent.

As a matter of serious concern that could expose how abysmal the preparedness of the City police force is, only 60 to 65 per cent out of a total number of 14,000 personnel (from the rank of constables to inspectors) attend shooting practice.

Skip practice

As per senior officers, rest of the officers attached to various police stations don't even bother about visiting the firing range, let along about getting their aim straight.

"This is really a matter which needs immediate attention, especially when a Mumbai-like terror attack could happen in a City like Bangalore. Most importantly, the prescribed time frame for practice of shooting (mandatory once in every six months) is not even followed properly. Last time it happened was in July 2009," a senior officer told Deccan Herald on the condition of anonymity.

As a rule, all staff in civil police should take part in the half-yearly shooting exercise. They fire 20 rounds from a distance of 200 yards to prove their mettle in shooting. While personnel up to the rank of head constables use .303 and self loaded rifles (SLR), officers from the rank of assistant sub-inspector to inspector use their service revolvers.

"Only 20 per cent manage to hit the target, which is abysmally low. Out of them only 4 to 5 percent can hit the bull's eye with a maximum of two bullets out of 20. The problem here is that most of them don't take it (shooting exercise) seriously. It should be the DCPs of the zones who should take appropriate action against those who don't come for exercise. Now under such condition the state government is procuring high-end fire arms from other countries. If they simply can not get their aim right with familiar 303 and SLR rifles, what are they going to do with such sophisticated arms," the official questioned.

If somebody hits the target with 10 bullets out of 20, his performance is considered as average. With 16 rounds on the target, the performance is considered as good.

Punishment

According to senior officers in the City Armed Reserve (CAR), there are also provisions for punishment for personnel who don't turn up for the shooting practice.

"Such irregularities happen as most of them are over burdened with work (LOLzz I'm pissing my pants :dance: ). But they have to follow the established rules and regulations. If we find anyone avoiding the shooting practice deliberately, his/her increment can be stopped. We can even recommend his/her name for appropriate departmental action which includes cut in pay or cancelling promotion," the officer said.


http://www.deccanherald.com/content/90033/4-5-cops-cant-shoot.html
 

Rage

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I want to discuss this in some depth because this is a very serious issue. Force One is supposed to be the first line of defence for what is, by population and landmass, the largest metropolitan area in the world. Its sanctioned strength is over 350, little expanded from its original strength of some 300 2 years ago, but the gluttonous rumps have managed to pass protecting the legislature and some politicians as part of its duties too. How are they supposed to even protect their politicians, let alone act as a strike team in a hostage/urban-terror crisis, when they don't even have the necessary weapons for survival and execution? Over 3000 members of the state police dept.- over 10 times the number reqd.- had originally applied for the positions in the aftermath of the Mumbai crisis 2008. So where is the dearth of the volunteer pool reqd. to pluck them out of? Why is the state dept. sitting on its @ss waiting for another terrorist seige to strike. If the demands of the task and position are the question, why don't they incentivize it enough? What are they waiting for, to blame Pakistan for another terrorist attack, while they stand shooting their feet? Are the Force One equipped with helicopters, because you can't expect to get around Mumbai in the peak of traffic and respond to a terror situation in 15 mins.
 

prahladh

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simple doubt. Is force one same as NSG. I remember GoI promised NSG hubs in all major cities. So why do we need farce one ?
 

gogbot

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simple doubt. Is force one same as NSG. I remember GoI promised NSG hubs in all major cities. So why do we need farce one ?
Force one was supposed to be Mumbai's version of S.W.A.T . Controlled by the State.
 

gogbot

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You want to see the real degree to which state police departments require change? :



Mumbai cops skip shooting practice

S Ahmed Ali, Aug 6, 2010, 04.22am IST


MUMBAI: In a city where crime is big and terrorists have loved to strike, the police force seems to have taken a dislike to target practice. In the last couple of months, only a handful of personnel have been reporting to the firing range at Ghatkopar every day to train.

The attendance records are so abysmal that Mumbai police commissioner Sanjeev Dayal had to recently issue stern notices to the 90 police stations across the city as well as other branches like the crime branch forcing them to ensure that all personnel clock the annual requisite time-slot of just 20 minutes (once a year) at the firing range. Even encounter specialists were pulled up for not training daily/regularly.

The course is not even very demanding: according to Bombay police service rules, it is mandatory for every policeman to practise long-range (using rifles) and short-range (revolvers and pistols) shooting at the Ghatkopar and Naigaum firing ranges at least for one day in the entire year. In fact, critics say the training should be more rigorous, as currently, a policeman has to put in only 20 minutes of practice for the year. But going by the police chief's admonition, it appears that few cops bother to hone their skills.

Incidentally, in the aftermath of 26/11, cops would drop in at the training ground in droves, with more than 50 to 80 personnel reporting for practice every day. The numbers began to dwindle at the start of 2010. For instance, TOI has learned that on July 26, only nine policemen reported for target practice at Ghatkopar. The following day, the attendance was two. Sources say it's a similar scene at Naigaum.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...kip-shooting-practice/articleshow/6263817.cms


----


And from Bangalore:


4 out of 5 cops can't shoot straight

Debi Prasad Sarangi, Bangalore, August 19, 2010 DH News Service:


If you thought that the police have learnt a lesson from the Mumbai terror strike of 2008, think again.



Take a look at this disturbing statistics- only 20 per cent of the city's policemen can hit the target. And more over, only 4 to 5 per cent of them can hit the bull's eye with a strike rate of hardly 10 per cent.

As a matter of serious concern that could expose how abysmal the preparedness of the City police force is, only 60 to 65 per cent out of a total number of 14,000 personnel (from the rank of constables to inspectors) attend shooting practice.

Skip practice

As per senior officers, rest of the officers attached to various police stations don't even bother about visiting the firing range, let along about getting their aim straight.

"This is really a matter which needs immediate attention, especially when a Mumbai-like terror attack could happen in a City like Bangalore. Most importantly, the prescribed time frame for practice of shooting (mandatory once in every six months) is not even followed properly. Last time it happened was in July 2009," a senior officer told Deccan Herald on the condition of anonymity.

As a rule, all staff in civil police should take part in the half-yearly shooting exercise. They fire 20 rounds from a distance of 200 yards to prove their mettle in shooting. While personnel up to the rank of head constables use .303 and self loaded rifles (SLR), officers from the rank of assistant sub-inspector to inspector use their service revolvers.

"Only 20 per cent manage to hit the target, which is abysmally low. Out of them only 4 to 5 percent can hit the bull's eye with a maximum of two bullets out of 20. The problem here is that most of them don't take it (shooting exercise) seriously. It should be the DCPs of the zones who should take appropriate action against those who don't come for exercise. Now under such condition the state government is procuring high-end fire arms from other countries. If they simply can not get their aim right with familiar 303 and SLR rifles, what are they going to do with such sophisticated arms," the official questioned.

If somebody hits the target with 10 bullets out of 20, his performance is considered as average. With 16 rounds on the target, the performance is considered as good.

Punishment

According to senior officers in the City Armed Reserve (CAR), there are also provisions for punishment for personnel who don't turn up for the shooting practice.

"Such irregularities happen as most of them are over burdened with work (LOLzz I'm pissing my pants :dance: ). But they have to follow the established rules and regulations. If we find anyone avoiding the shooting practice deliberately, his/her increment can be stopped. We can even recommend his/her name for appropriate departmental action which includes cut in pay or cancelling promotion," the officer said.


http://www.deccanherald.com/content/90033/4-5-cops-cant-shoot.html
There has to be at least one state in India that has decent police
 

JBH22

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Force one was supposed to be Mumbai's version of S.W.A.T . Controlled by the State.
Had there been direct recruitment from the public for the officer level this would have been curbed also army officers retiring early could be sent there if they wish. Solutions are there but the legendary incompetency of ours is here to stay

There has to be at least one state in India that has decent police
AFAIK Only Gujrat in the aftermath of 26/11 took some steps like they purchase 4000 Insas rifle but then its not enough
 

Tronic

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There has to be at least one state in India that has decent police
Punjab Police. Jammu & Kashmir Police. AP Police (Greyhounds force). Manipur Police. There are probably few others; states who have a long history of fighting terrorism.

Should also add Tamil Nadu Police to the list.
 
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malluowl

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If we stop paying these morons bribes they will be forced to join the force and go for training. In US, my friends in FBI and local police love to hit the shooting range. They older they get the more practice they want to put in, they say they don't want to give the slightest advantage to the enemy.
Lets start a revolution by putting a stop to all bribes and also shaming any of our friends who do so.
 

gogbot

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If we stop paying these morons bribes they will be forced to join the force and go for training. In US, my friends in FBI and local police love to hit the shooting range. They older they get the more practice they want to put in, they say they don't want to give the slightest advantage to the enemy.
Lets start a revolution by putting a stop to all bribes and also shaming any of our friends who do so.
Keep in mind they are a far older democracy , with a lot of federal judicial authority,

Why don't you look back at US law enforcement 100 years ago , see where it was at.
 
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