Indian response to a Pakistani nuclear strike

[jatkshatriya]

Pakistan has very limited population concentrations numbering in about roughly 15 to 20 cities.Out of which only one and two can be deemed as truly large cities (none can be compared to Indian metros). 20 to 30 percent of Paki population lives in these cities. In other words , Pakistani elite who run pakistan. In response it will be very easy for India to completely decimate these cities. On the other hands India because of its sheer size has many population centres. Say if you take out Delhi, which wont be easy due to multi layered ABMs, India will still be able to regroup quicker as compared to Pakistan if you take out Islamabad. We will have the beuracratic elites left in so many other cities, and so many regional and national leaders of all these differrent states who can then form the command chain.(by that I mean running the country). Ofcourse if India looses its civilian leadership in Delhi then the immediate defacto leader of the nation will be military, (I hope so). But I dont know if it will be in Indias interest to compliteley annhilate all those Pakistani cities.
My personal belief is that once the nuke gennie is out, Indias sole objective should be to completely annex Punjab, kashmir, sind leaving NWF provinces and Baluchistan. For that it should destroy as many paki nukes, while completely annhilating Islamabad. At the same time Indian army should enter Pakistan capturing its territory and moving Inland.
Indian reserve forces will have to be employed to engineer the demographics of the captured territory. Pakistanis from the captured territories should be moved to NWFP and baluchistan. This will be the new pakistan which will not be allowed to keep a standing army, which will depend on India for its defence, which will not be allowed to carry out research in areas of military applications.
Then , may be partition will be undone.

 

[Yusuf]

Agreed but for the same damage to be caused, a conventional weapon war head will be 4 times Heavier.

Son, nuclear weapons are not for war fighting. The west realized that long ago. Nuclear weapons are deterrents. They cease to be a deterrent once it's used.

 

[bengalraider]

Well, on the topic of flattering both Islamabad and Pindi completely that nothing survives, I'bad is 906sqkm and Pindi about 150. Anyone who thinks can destroy both cities with one nuclear bomb even if it was a Megaton yield is dreaming. You will require multiple hits on Islamabad in different areas to finish it.

I remember Stuart Slade talking about multiple megaton hits on London and London still surviving.
People have all kinds of wrong notions about nuclear warfare.

This whole talk about wiping off the map and glassing Pakistan is stuff fanboys are made off. Only the US and Soviets could do something like that.

Nobody is talking about flattening both cities, if you read carefully you will see that i have repeatedly advocated the use of comparatively small 20kt weapons in an air-burst/earth penetration mode for both areas with the blast foci being the presidential house at the diplomatic enclave of ISLAMABAD and the GHQ of Rawalpindi respectively.
as for glassing Pakistan that is a no can do because of the simple feature of a shared weather pattern , any residual radioactivity from the fields of pakistan will be carried by the warm loo winds into India's cowbelt states, also the retreating monsoon will pick up radioactivity and deposit them over the western ghats.

 

[smanekshaw]

Our bombs have not been tested adequately.
We know that the H.bomb was a dud. None of these have been integrated into a missile warhead and tested.
4 of the last 7 Prithvi launches were failures.

So if we get nuked we get f**ked. That's it. Our missiles probably won't take off.
If they take off they will probably miss the target. In the unlikely event that they land close to the target, the warhead will probably not detonate. If it does, it could end up like the Pokhran H-bomb dud.
Your confidence in DRDO is misplaced!!

 

[Tronic]

Our bombs have not been tested adequately.
We know that the H.bomb was a dud. None of these have been integrated into a missile warhead and tested.
4 of the last 7 Prithvi launches were failures.

So if we get nuked we get f**ked. That's it. Our missiles probably won't take off.
If they take off they will probably miss the target. In the unlikely event that they land close to the target, the warhead will probably not detonate. If it does, it could end up like the Pokhran H-bomb dud.
Your confidence in DRDO is misplaced!!

And the Chandrayaan-1 Moon Mission was staged!

I take it, you have more faith in Pakistani missiles than Indian.

 

[Dovah]

Our bombs have not been tested adequately.
We know that the H.bomb was a dud. None of these have been integrated into a missile warhead and tested.
4 of the last 7 Prithvi launches were failures.

So if we get nuked we get f**ked. That's it. Our missiles probably won't take off.
If they take off they will probably miss the target. In the unlikely event that they land close to the target, the warhead will probably not detonate. If it does, it could end up like the Pokhran H-bomb dud.
Your confidence in DRDO is misplaced!!

Yes. Run for cover.

 

[smanekshaw]

And the Chandrayaan-1 Moon Mission was staged!

I take it, you have more faith in Pakistani missiles than Indian.

Look what the govt did to Madhavan Nair. They have put the blame for S-Band spectrum scam on him when it was the Calligula(aka Rahul) who got the cut. This sort of thing really demotivates people.

My point is DRDO as an organization is not to be trusted, since they can't deliver. Never have, never will.
Unless our missiles and nukes are tested extensively, i have no faith in stage managed press releases where the reporter writes what is told to him, and gets a sumptuous meal at the canteen.

Our only hope is that the Pakis are as incompetent as we are.

 

[Tronic]

Look what the govt did to Madhavan Nair. They have put the blame for S-Band spectrum scam on him when it was the Calligula(aka Rahul) who got the cut. This sort of thing really demotivates people.

I thought we were talking about Indian missiles. Where are you the drawing this correlation?

My point is DRDO as an organization is not to be trusted, since they can't deliver. Never have, never will.

BS.

I have gone through your post history, and it is you who I don't trust. Clearly a person with a single point agenda with a clear lack of knowledge yet pointless ranting.

Unless our missiles and nukes are tested extensively, i have no faith in stage managed press releases where the reporter writes what is told to him, and gets a sumptuous meal at the canteen.

Our only hope is that the Pakis are as incompetent as we are.

Considering that those same Indian made missiles got us to the moon, I have full faith in them, and clearly, so does every single country which pays India to launch their satellites and payload into space.

The Pakistanis are nowhere close to the Indian space program, which in turn means, nowhere close to Indian missile capabilities.

Testing nukes is a whole different ballgame, and taking into account that we have almost a 3 decade head start of building nuclear devices (our first test was in '74); I have more faith in Indian nukes than I have of those across the western border.

 

[trackwhack]

Look what the govt did to Madhavan Nair. They have put the blame for S-Band spectrum scam on him when it was the Calligula(aka Rahul) who got the cut. This sort of thing really demotivates people.

My point is DRDO as an organization is not to be trusted, since they can't deliver. Never have, never will.
Unless our missiles and nukes are tested extensively, i have no faith in stage managed press releases where the reporter writes what is told to him, and gets a sumptuous meal at the canteen.

Our only hope is that the Pakis are as incompetent as we are.

Clowns like you with no perspective should be banned from opening their mouth. DRDO works on a 2 billion dollar annual budget. Taking that to be constant by factoring in inflation, 2 billion for 50 years is still 100 billion dollars. Thats their total budget since their inception. What they have delivered with that is exceptional to say the least.

here is the perspective : The F22 program cost the US gov. $70 billion and is not yet a stable platform with so many bugs still being ironed out.

 

[trackwhack]

Re: PAK DA - Russian Fifth Generation Steath Bomber

btw, regarding Pakistan nuking Delhi and Bombay and us not retaliating, that is not just flawed, it is ludicrous and only a raving lunatic would come up with something like that. I ask you again, do you think the people of this country will tolerate such nonsense?

 

[Yusuf]

btw, regarding Pakistan nuking Delhi and Bombay and us not retaliating, that is not just flawed, it is ludicrous and only a raving lunatic would come up with something like that. I ask you again, do you think the people of this country will tolerate such nonsense?

It wasn't an order that I passed. Alternative thinking depending on what strategic goals india has for the next big war with Pakistan. Again, if it's beyond your scope of understanding is not my problem.

Read that article and that thread again.

 

[trackwhack]

Re: PAK DA - Russian Fifth Generation Steath Bomber

It wasn't an order that I passed. Alternative thinking depending on what strategic goals india has for the next big war with Pakistan. Again, if it's beyond your scope of understanding is not my problem.

Read that article and that thread again.

It is not beyond the scope of my understanding, what you proposed is just plain stupid. I did not disagree with the strategic goalsof our next war with pakistan that you stated in that article. Just the utterly flawed approach that you think will allow us to reach those objectives.

And yeah, I read the article and thread and I put my response as well. Dont think for a minute that I will allow public opinion on this small forum to be swayed by such 'strategic thinking' that will get us all fking killed.

 

[Yusuf]

It is not beyond the scope of my understanding, what you proposed is just plain stupid. I did not disagree with the strategic goalsof our next war with pakistan that you stated in that article. Just the utterly flawed approach that you think will allow us to reach those objectives.

And yeah, I read the article and thread and I put my response as well. Dont think for a minute that I will allow public opinion on this small forum to be swayed by such 'strategic thinking' that will get us all fking killed.

You will be killed in a first strike by the enemy as mine is still what we do after a first strike. I don't propose the same with China where a nuke will beget a nuke.

 

[trackwhack]

Re: PAK DA - Russian Fifth Generation Steath Bomber

You will be killed in a first strike by the enemy as mine is still what we do after a first strike. I don't propose the same with China where a nuke will beget a nuke.

What we do after a first strike is to wipe the vile nation clean. Your strategic thinking will break our nation into small pieces while you go about trying to dismember pakistan.

 

[Yusuf]

What we do after a first strike is to wipe the vile nation clean. Your strategic thinking will break our nation into small pieces while you go about trying to dismember pakistan.

Our troops will be in Pakistan. That is when they will go nuke. I don't want us to nuke our own troops. It's all about strategic objective. We can kill far more people with conventional weapons and achieve our goals. Its all about goals or objectives. If its just to glass the other side which will also include killing our own soldiers, well it's your call.

 

[trackwhack]

Our troops will be in Pakistan. That is when they will go nuke. I don't want us to nuke our own troops. It's all about strategic objective. We can kill far more people with conventional weapons and achieve our goals. Its all about goals or objectives. If its just to glass the other side which will also include killing our own soldiers, well it's your call.

Thats not the point, our people will not tolerate if there is no retaliation. The country will split.

Your strategy of sending troops into their major cities is also flawed. We should gain territory but not march into Islamabad and other major cities. Apart from severe casualty rates, the handicap of not being able to nuke them is real if we try to occupy their cities. Our forces should close Islamabad from outside. Nothing goes in or out. Stay outside of the population center. Which allows us to retaliate if nuked as well as achieve our objectives.

@LB please move these posts to Yusuf's thread. Sorry for OT.

Edit: @LB, you are faster than the speed of light. We should call you Flash Gordon.

 

[Yusuf]

Thats not the point, our people will not tolerate if there is no retaliation. The country will split.

Your strategy of sending troops into their major cities is also flawed. We should gain territory but not march into Islamabad and other major cities. Apart from severe casualty rates, the handicap of not being able to nuke them is real if we try to occupy their cities. Our forces should close Islamabad from outside. Nothing goes in or out. Stay outside of the population center. Which allows us to retaliate if nuked as well as achieve our objectives.

@LB please move these posts to Yusuf's thread. Sorry for OT.

Your basic premise is wrong. Pak will go nuke when we get into their cities. That's their doctrine.

I am not not advocating a retaliation. Just HOW it can be done is different. End goal is to win the war and on our terms with Pakistan as a state finished. Nuking them and leaving them alone means trouble again in the future. No matter how much the fanboys cry, we will not glass their entire country. We don't have that many warheads and also glassing them will lead to after effects on our own population.

 

[trackwhack]

Your basic premise is wrong. Pak will go nuke when we get into their cities. That's their doctrine.

I am not not advocating a retaliation. Just HOW it can be done is different. End goal is to win the war and on our terms with Pakistan as a state finished. Nuking them and leaving them alone means trouble again in the future. No matter how much the fanboys cry, we will not glass their entire country. We don't have that many warheads and also glassing them will lead to after effects on our own population.

No you are wrong, the end goal is to ensure that we as a country remain intact. That is part of winning the war. A secondary goal is to ensure we split Pakistan. Do not get these two mixed up. In any war, dont go in with the presumption that your own territorial integrity will be intact. Our stupid decisions will cause enough internal friction which will break our state.


One more thing, your asumption that Pak will use nukes only when we get to their cities is also incorrect. The right way to win this war would be to cut - off their main cities. Without supplies, no city can last more than a week. Thats the peak. If they surrender good for them, it will be on the terms that we break them up and denuke them. If they dont and they nuke us, we retaliate, take everything out and then split them.

 

[Yusuf]

I you believe our country is weak to split during a war with Pak then I cannot help. Primary aim of India has to finish off Pakistan once they go nuke. Finish them as an entity. Remember you will not be able to wipe out the entire 180 million of them. we know the provinces that can go separate. We know the rogues. Don't spare the rogues.

Basically boils down to aims and objectives and method.

 

[trackwhack]

I you believe our country is weak to split during a war with Pak then I cannot help. Primary aim of India has to finish off Pakistan once they go nuke. Finish them as an entity. Remember you will not be able to wipe out the entire 180 million of them. we know the provinces that can go separate. We know the rogues. Don't spare the rogues.

Basically boils down to aims and objectives and method.

We are a federal state. As united a nation as we are, a catastrophe like being nuked will test that unity.

If Modi is Gujarat CM and they nuke Ahmedabad and Delhi says ok, we wont nuke them back, what do you think will happen?


We dont need to wipe out all of them. We just should not be stupid enough to go occupy their cities. We wont be able to hold it. And we will lose the war when they nuke us and we cannot retaliate. We would have shot ourselves in the foot.