Indian response to a Pakistani nuclear strike

[Zulfiqar Khan]

Does Pakistan have the economy and resources to fight off an invasion by India in which India is determined to continue fighting at any cost and no other country intervenes? Is your answer the same if India cuts off Chinese supply lines through a naval blockade and capturing territory in Kashmir? If your answer is "yes", then prove it with sources and citations.

Yes. Pakistan has stockpiles of weapons, ammunitions and supplies and hundreds of tribes, militias that have pledged support.

But the question is, does India?

and the situation only seems to be getting worse
2014:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-last-20-days-of-war/articleshow/40862131.cms
2015:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms
2016:
http://thewire.in/68370/a-military-attack-on-pakistan-will-lead-to-indias-worst-nightmare/

We acknowledge the fact that we'll be placed under a blockade by the superior Indian Navy (but only after very heavy losses inflicted to the Indian Fleets by Coastal Defences).

The Chinese supply route via GB would however not be taken - it would be near impossible for India to attempt to fight the combined forces of Pakistan and China who have the defensive advantage as well. The chances of that are the same of Pakistan taking Occupied JK.

Even if in some dreamland that does happens - Pakistan is very well self-sufficient. Ammunition & Supplies are stockpiled. Putting military factors aside - Pakistan has the fourth largest irrigated land in the entire world; which has always been MORE than enough to provide for the entire population, we rarely ever imported food. Although India has more irrigated land - it's simply not enough for India's massive population (this is only a concern in the case of a 'total war' - which is very unlikely).

Pakistan is prepared and ready. In case of a war, all Pakistan would have to do is hold until the international community intervenes or until the Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks); which would be followed by a massive counter-attack.

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes. Pakistan has stockpiles of weapons, ammunitions and supplies and hundreds of tribes, militias that have pledged support.

But the question is, does India?

and the situation only seems to be getting worse
2014:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-last-20-days-of-war/articleshow/40862131.cms
2015:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms
2016:
http://thewire.in/68370/a-military-attack-on-pakistan-will-lead-to-indias-worst-nightmare/

We acknowledge the fact that we'll be placed under a blockade by the superior Indian Navy (but only after very heavy losses inflicted to the Indian Fleets by Coastal Defences).

The Chinese supply route via GB would however not be taken - it would be near impossible for India to attempt to fight the combined forces of Pakistan and China who have the defensive advantage as well. The chances of that are the same of Pakistan taking Occupied JK.

Even if in some dreamland that does happens - Pakistan is very well self-sufficient. Ammunition & Supplies are stockpiled. Putting military factors aside - Pakistan has the fourth largest irrigated land in the entire world; which has always been MORE than enough to provide for the entire population, we rarely ever imported food. Although India has more irrigated land - it's simply not enough for India's massive population (this is only a concern in the case of a 'total war' - which is very unlikely).

Pakistan is prepared and ready. In case of a war, all Pakistan would have to do is hold until the international community intervenes or until the Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks); which would be followed by a massive counter-attack.

What load of bullshit:bs:

Indian ammo at worst stage will still be 2 times more than Pakistan.
And purchases have been commissioned from Israel and Russia (yes your new best friend) already.

Chinese will be the first to run out of Pakistan if war breaks out. They have 100 billion dollars business with India .

Whatever pathetic infrastructure is there in GB can't last 2 days assault at most.

We don't need tribes to fight our war we. Have a professional army. :biggrin2:

India produces more food grain than Pakistan can even imagine and it exports too.

Your foreign reserve will run out in 4 days (some 15-20 billion). And then without oil I guess you'll fight and live with pure paki air.

 

[Project Dharma]

Yes. Pakistan has stockpiles of weapons, ammunitions and supplies and hundreds of tribes, militias that have pledged support.

But the question is, does India?

and the situation only seems to be getting worse
2014:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-last-20-days-of-war/articleshow/40862131.cms
2015:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms
2016:
http://thewire.in/68370/a-military-attack-on-pakistan-will-lead-to-indias-worst-nightmare/

We acknowledge the fact that we'll be placed under a blockade by the superior Indian Navy (but only after very heavy losses inflicted to the Indian Fleets by Coastal Defences).

The Chinese supply route via GB would however not be taken - it would be near impossible for India to attempt to fight the combined forces of Pakistan and China who have the defensive advantage as well. The chances of that are the same of Pakistan taking Occupied JK.

Even if in some dreamland that does happens - Pakistan is very well self-sufficient. Ammunition & Supplies are stockpiled. Putting military factors aside - Pakistan has the fourth largest irrigated land in the entire world; which has always been MORE than enough to provide for the entire population, we rarely ever imported food. Although India has more irrigated land - it's simply not enough for India's massive population (this is only a concern in the case of a 'total war' - which is very unlikely).

Pakistan is prepared and ready. In case of a war, all Pakistan would have to do is hold until the international community intervenes or until the Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks); which would be followed by a massive counter-attack.

Wait now, you didn't answer my question. Indian ammo was not at the sanctioned capacity admitted but it is being rectified urgently as of now. AFAIK India and Pakistan both have 25 days of sanctioned capacity but this is immaterial to my question. It's a safe assumption that in a case where India invades Pakistan, India will have bought enough ammunition to sustain the war. BTW the third link you posted says declaring war with India will lead to it's worst nightmare because Pakistan is weak and will be forced to use nukes

hundreds of tribes, militias that have pledged support

Doesn't matter, India has double the number of troops in Army and quadruple (!!) in reserves.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/coun...untry1=india&country2=pakistan&Submit=COMPARE

Pakistan has the fourth largest irrigated land in the entire world; which has always been MORE than enough to provide for the entire population, we rarely ever imported food. Although India has more irrigated land - it's simply not enough for India's massive population (this is only a concern in the case of a 'total war' - which is very unlikely).

Immaterial again, Pakistan is not capable of an Indian blockage while the reverse is very credible like you pointed out.

In case of a war, all Pakistan would have to do is hold until the international community intervenes or until the Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks); which would be followed by a massive counter-attack.

I said presuming nobody intervenes, didn't I? The world is a very different place than 71. US and Russia are Indian allies and China has too much to lose for it to intervene. The Indian military collapse is laughable

I had posted somewhere else with sources but I'm too lazy to look it up now. Neither India nor Pakistan has the resources to fight an all out war and both armies will run out of money (Pakistan first though!). A Kargil type conflict costs India 10% of her GDP and Pakistan about 77%. Now you tell me which country is likely to collapse first?

EDIT: I miscalculated the GDP of Pakistan, it would actually be 77% of the Pakistan GDP

 

[OrangeFlorian]

Wait now, you didn't answer my question. Indian ammo was not at the sanctioned capacity admitted but it is being rectified urgently as of now. AFAIK India and Pakistan both have 25 days of sanctioned capacity but this is immaterial to my question. It's a safe assumption that in a case where India invades Pakistan, India will have bought enough ammunition to sustain the war. BTW the third link you posted says declaring war with India will lead to it's worst nightmare because Pakistan is weak and will be forced to use nukes



Doesn't matter, India has double the number of troops in Army and quadruple (!!) in reserves.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/coun...untry1=india&country2=pakistan&Submit=COMPARE



Immaterial again, Pakistan is not capable of an Indian blockage while the reverse is very credible like you pointed out.



I said presuming nobody intervenes, didn't I? The world is a very different place than 71. US and Russia are Indian allies and China has too much to lose for it to intervene. The Indian military collapse is laughable

I had posted somewhere else with sources but I'm too lazy to look it up now. Neither India nor Pakistan has the resources to fight an all out war and both armies will run out of money (Pakistan first though!). A Kargil type conflict costs India 10% of her GDP and Pakistan about 50%. Now you tell me which country is likely to collapse first?

Pakistan will collapse into anarchy but eventually some world power will force us to sign a peace agreement like 1965 and it'll be the same shtick over again.

 

[Project Dharma]

Pakistan will collapse into anarchy but eventually some world power will force us to sign a peace agreement like 1965 and it'll be the same shtick over again.

Probably but the terms of the peace will probably be very different given the current world order and BJP government at the center and territory captured will not be returned.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Yes. Pakistan has stockpiles of weapons, ammunitions and supplies and hundreds of tribes, militias that have pledged support.

But the question is, does India?

and the situation only seems to be getting worse
2014:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-last-20-days-of-war/articleshow/40862131.cms
2015:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms
2016:
http://thewire.in/68370/a-military-attack-on-pakistan-will-lead-to-indias-worst-nightmare/

We acknowledge the fact that we'll be placed under a blockade by the superior Indian Navy (but only after very heavy losses inflicted to the Indian Fleets by Coastal Defences).

The Chinese supply route via GB would however not be taken - it would be near impossible for India to attempt to fight the combined forces of Pakistan and China who have the defensive advantage as well. The chances of that are the same of Pakistan taking Occupied JK.

Even if in some dreamland that does happens - Pakistan is very well self-sufficient. Ammunition & Supplies are stockpiled. Putting military factors aside - Pakistan has the fourth largest irrigated land in the entire world; which has always been MORE than enough to provide for the entire population, we rarely ever imported food. Although India has more irrigated land - it's simply not enough for India's massive population (this is only a concern in the case of a 'total war' - which is very unlikely).

Pakistan is prepared and ready. In case of a war, all Pakistan would have to do is hold until the international community intervenes or until the Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks); which would be followed by a massive counter-attack.

Thanks for the 2 years old article above Army's Ammunition issue (Resolved).
Now,

1. If some guy thinks that other country like China is going to.fight for you, he's in fool's Paradise.
2. India is a far bigger economy with huge Forex Reserves, diversified economy, infrastructure, can overcome any damage. India will lose more because India at least possesses something to lose.
3. India has space based navigation capabilities, anti missile shields, chemical/biological weapons capability (though eliminated in past, UNO), Thermobaric Weapons, lasers (in trials) big Radars. Over that, India put a 2.5 tonnes satellite in a very accurate apogee this September. Means, it has tech for Anti Satellite missiles too.
4. Most important thing, India has edge not only numbers, but quality of weapons too (though Pakistan has parity in artillery and tanks because of heavy free transfers from USA and PRC). Pakistanis can whin about that their army is more professional but can't defy facts.
5. India has nearly two dozen nuclear reactors, building many more and is a part of ITER project along with China. Says everything about Thermonuclear capabilities.
6. Most important, for international support, there'll ikka dukka countries (probably even not one) preferring Pakistan over India.

 

[Project Dharma]

Thanks for the 2 years old article above Army's Ammunition issue (Resolved).
Now,

1. If some guy thinks that other country like China is going to.fight for you, he's in fool's Paradise.
2. India is a far bigger economy with huge Forex Reserves, diversified economy, infrastructure, can overcome any damage. India will lose more because India at least possesses something to lose.
3. India has space based navigation capabilities, anti missile shields, chemical/biological weapons capability (though eliminated in past, UNO), Thermobaric Weapons, lasers (in trials) big Radars. Over that, India put a 2.5 tonnes satellite in a very accurate apogee this September. Means, it has tech for Anti Satellite missiles too.
4. Most important thing, India has edge not only numbers, but quality of weapons too (though Pakistan has parity in artillery and tanks because of heavy free transfers from USA and PRC). Pakistanis can whin about that their army is more professional but can't defy facts.
5. India has nearly two dozen nuclear reactors, building many more and is a part of ITER project along with China. Says everything about Thermonuclear capabilities.
6. Most important, for international support, there'll ikka dukka countries (probably even not one) preferring Pakistan over India.

He's being very delusional because he's not even arguing that Pakistan will win because of Chinese help. He's saying that Indian army will attack without sufficient ammo reserves and Pakistan will hold them off and then Indian army will "collapse" and then be invaded in reverse by Pakistan because they will run out of ammo.

Actually, I have another followup question. Let's say that a limited Kargil type skirmish did happen (because neither side has the resources for something more) and Pakistan spent 80% of their GDP like I projected and the war ended up in a stalemate because the international community intervened like you said they will. India will recover all the money they spent in about a decade at their current growth rate. Pakistan will not be able to recover for about a century. How will Pakistan defend themselves if India decides to invade again after a decade?

 

[aditya10r]

He's being very delusional because he's not even arguing that Pakistan will win because of Chinese help. He's saying that Indian army will attack without sufficient ammo reserves and Pakistan will hold them off and then Indian army will "collapse" and then be invaded in reverse by Pakistan because they will run out of ammo.

Actually, I have another followup question. Let's say that a limited Kargil type skirmish did happen (because neither side has the resources for something more) and Pakistan spent 80% of their GDP like I projected and the war ended up in a stalemate because the international community intervened like you said they will. India will recover all the money they spent in about a decade at their current growth rate. Pakistan will not be able to recover for about a century. How will Pakistan defend themselves if India decides to invade again after a decade?

He is on some strong weed.

They will beg for mercy as always.

They will ask chowmein to intervene but chowmein will let them enjoy the hardcore gangbang.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Yes. Pakistan has stockpiles of weapons, ammunitions and supplies and hundreds of tribes, militias that have pledged support.

But the question is, does India?

and the situation only seems to be getting worse
2014:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-last-20-days-of-war/articleshow/40862131.cms
2015:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms
2016:
http://thewire.in/68370/a-military-attack-on-pakistan-will-lead-to-indias-worst-nightmare/

Total BS. Pakistan only has fuel reserves to fight a very high intensity with massive armour movements war for 3-4 days and a high intensity war with moderate armour movements for 6-7 days.

We acknowledge the fact that we'll be placed under a blockade by the superior Indian Navy (but only after very heavy losses inflicted to the Indian Fleets by Coastal Defences).

Sir, you are confusing real life naval blockade with naval blockade in video games. In video games aggressor has to come close to your ports and within range of your coastal defense. They do this for sake of keeping balance in the video game.
In real life the IN does not have to come in range of your coastal defense to enforce a blockade. IN just has to patrol the are around shipping lanes. This is even easier done with aircraft.
Also you missed out important point that it will be very difficult for Pakistan to track and accurately pin point IN's mobile asset. This is even more difficult for ground based coastal weapons. Kindly note coastal defense system are comparatively easy to search. Airports and ground based radar are generally statically located and their position is generally known in advance. Mobile radar systems are generally more difficult to search but not difficult.
Also note just as coastal defense is trying to destroy IN's ships IAF and IN will also be attempting to destroy coastal defense systems.

The Chinese supply route via GB would however not be taken - it would be near impossible for India to attempt to fight the combined forces of Pakistan and China who have the defensive advantage as well. The chances of that are the same of Pakistan taking Occupied JK.

Are you agreeing that Pakistan gave away GB to PRC by claiming Chinese supply route via GB.
This so called Chinese's supply route is with in Indian artillery range at may points. Destroying or damaging it won't be difficult for IA. Wouldn't
I don't get your logic. Why PRC a shrewd businessman will endanger itself by coming to your military aid? It has more to loose than gain. This is the most flawed Pakistani logic.

Even if in some dreamland that does happens - Pakistan is very well self-sufficient. Ammunition & Supplies are stockpiled. Putting military factors aside - Pakistan has the fourth largest irrigated land in the entire world; which has always been MORE than enough to provide for the entire population, we rarely ever imported food. Although India has more irrigated land - it's simply not enough for India's massive population (this is only a concern in the case of a 'total war' - which is very unlikely).

Dude you import fuel that's your biggest concern. You import sophisticated weapons. What are you talking about self-reliance in case of blockade. Just because Pakistan has a big small rams (gun manufacturing industry does not mean you are self sufficient).
You even import fertilizers that is needed to grow crops.

Pakistan is prepared and ready. In case of a war, all Pakistan would have to do is hold until the international community intervenes or until the Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks); which would be followed by a massive counter-attack.

I have seen this wet dream in many Pakistanis Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks). If you analyze your current doctrine you will find their is no place for massive counter-attack. Pakistan it self will be badly exhausted after 1 week of fighting. Currently you are having difficulties holding your own territory and yet you dream to invade.

 

[Project Dharma]

I have seen this wet dream in many Pakistanis Indian military collapses (which should take 2-3 weeks). If you analyze your current doctrine you will find their is no place for massive counter-attack. Pakistan it self will be badly exhausted after 1 week of fighting. Currently you are having difficulties holding your own territory and yet you dream to invade.

Genuine question - why or how would the Indian military collapse after 2-3 weeks? They might run out of ammunition after a while sure but then they could always buy more because of the massive GDP like they did in Kargil.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Genuine question - why or how would the Indian military collapse after 2-3 weeks? They might run out of ammunition after a while sure but then they could always buy more because of the massive GDP like they did in Kargil.

This is a pure fantasy in Pakistanis or lack of rational thinking. If you have seen Pakistan education then this kind of thinking is imparted to them from a early age. History is evident that Pakistan has even started wars on weird philosophical thinking that Indian military will collapse or India won't be able to sustain a war with Pakistan.
I have also observed when asked them how will Indian military collapse their answer is with Allah's grace or their famous term :Gazawa-e-Hind.
One of my theory is that Pakistan is still stuck in past (12th to16th centuries) where Islamic invaders invaded India and local Indian military collapsed after couple of battles.

 

[Project Dharma]

This is a pure fantasy in Pakistanis or lack of rational thinking. History is evident that Pakistan has even started wars on weird philosophy that Indian military will collapse or India won't be able to sustain a war with Pakistan.

Ah the old martial race theory of one Punjabi Paki being able fight ten short and weak inferior Indian kafirs? I'm not a fan of Churchill but he was right about Islam

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy."

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Ah the old martial race theory of one Punjabi Paki being able fight ten short and weak inferior Indian kafirs? I'm not a fan of Churchill but he was right about Islam

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy."

I wouldn't say Islam is the problem but the religion has been hijacked by bad people for their self-fish intrest to a point of no return.

 

[aditya10r]

I wouldn't say Islam is the problem but the religion has been hijacked by bad people for their self-fish intrest to a point of no return.

And inbreds happily follow their inbred leaders.

Best example Islamic revolution of iran

 

[Project Dharma]

I wouldn't say Islam is the problem but the religion has been hijacked by bad people for their self-fish intrest to a point of no return.

It's definitely the problem bro, please read the Quran some day and you will understand. The so called good people are not following it by the book.

 

[no smoking]

you Are underestimating RAW ................from decades we are preparing for this ................we know about nuclear targets inside pak.

Doesn't matter what institution you have. In order to carry out this kind of mission, you need
1. A spy satellite system to watch every inch of Pakistan frequently and analyze/find out all the potential shoot sites, this alone requires decades of work;
2. A live surveillance system to track the movement of Pakistan missile regiment and finding the sign of nuclear attack before any Pakistan missile starts to fly;
3. Enough warheads to cover every Pakistan missile shooting site (3 for each);
4. intensive training on your own missile force to make sure they can carry this kind of precise attack.

we will not attack without Solid preparation .

You prepare it doesn't mean you can do it. So far, your strategic force doesn't show they are working on this kind of mission.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Doesn't matter what institution you have. In order to carry out this kind of mission, you need

1. A spy satellite system to watch every inch of Pakistan frequently and analyze/find out all the potential shoot sites, this alone requires decades of work;

Thanks, we have already a system operational, expanding rapidly too.
Over that India has CS-2C Reconnaissance satellite with a resolution of 650 centimetres.

2. A live surveillance system to track the movement of Pakistan missile regiment and finding the sign of nuclear attack before any Pakistan missile starts to fly;

Yes, we do have at least this thing.

3. Enough warheads to cover every Pakistan missile shooting site (3 for each);

That would only be if India's stance was defensive mere. Bur that's not.
After intercepting a few, Indian Doctrine also accords the launch of nuclear offensives. Nuclear terrorists, established themselves as a country, threat to target our cities, what's the reason we don't send them to their 72 virgins?

4. intensive training on your own missile force to make sure they can carry this kind of precise attack.

We have missiles, we have satellites to track and navigate, once choose the site, just fire. I don't think there is a steering wheel in our missiles (can't say about Chinese).

You prepare it doesn't mean you can do it.

Prepared means attaining capabilities, you must call it will or won't do it.

So far, your strategic force doesn't show they are working on this kind of mission.

So far, he meant by hiding nukes and role of intelligence agency in it.
So, far it's our doctrine since 2000s, your statement was naive.

 

[IndianHawk]

1. A spy satellite system to watch every inch of Pakistan frequently and analyze/find out all the potential shoot sites, this alone requires decades of work;

We do have spy satellite with resolution in centimetres :biggrin2:

2. A live surveillance system to track the movement of Pakistan missile regiment and finding the sign of nuclear attack before any Pakistan missile starts to fly;

We do track there movement. Apart from all the technology all our sources on ground (and they are numerous ) are dedicated to this first.
But I will concede it can never be foolproof but same is the case with America and Russia.

3. Enough warheads to cover every Pakistan missile shooting site (3 for each);
4. intensive training on your own missile force to make sure they can carry this kind of precise attack.

Pakistan has only300km width we had it covered back in 90s.
At this range we have surplus missiles and warheads and to wipe out a nuclear base or missiles convoy you can use conventional warheads of which we have no dearth.

Our strategic forces test fire prithvi (250km) missiles every other month for 20years now . It's the most boring news in strategic circles .

You might choose to neglect or be downright ignorant.
But a India have enough capabilities to wipe out Pakistan with relative ease and Americans know it that's why they tried to keep the balance by supplying Pakistan with f16 and by keeping mum on paki nukes.

 

[AnantS]

Let chinis and Pakis remain in delusion. If I am correct there is an increase consensus building in Indian strategic circles. Any nuke attack by Pakis, should lead India to lob nukes on both Paki and her parmour : Chini

 

[IndianHawk]

Let chinis and Pakis remain in delusion. If I am correct there is an increase consensus building in Indian strategic circles. Any nuke attack by Pakis, should lead India to lob nukes on both Paki and her parmour : Chini

A nuke to Beijing free with a nuke to Islamabad . I like this offer. After all iron brothers should melt together :biggrin2: